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Board: Porsche - 911 - 991
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Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
GR:
The 981 seems massive to me so I dread to think what the turbo feels like. The rear wheel steering will certainly aid agility and gets a big thumbs up from me but there's no getting over the physical width.
One of the slowest cars point to point I have ever owned was actually the fastest in a straight line, namely an F355. On many of my favourite roads it was on or over the centre line so every time a car came the other way I had to slow down to a crawl so we could pass safely. Overtaking was nigh on impossible despite the performance. Then the suspension was so stiff and our roads so poor, powering out of a corner resulted in more axle hop than forward traction. It was hopeless on anything but a smooth A road or track and in SE England where I live, the A roads are generally over-crowded and very boring.
If a 981 seems massive to you, you should try an Abarth 695.... Does do the burbles just as nice as a 991 with PSE and is a lot of fun to drive 
No seriously, the 981 really is a tiny car IMO. Put it next to a Golf or an Astra and you'll see it really isn't much bigger, only wider, but I have no problems on narrow roads with it.
And there are a lot of narrow raods here in Switzerland
Maybe it is because you all drive on the wrong side of the road! 
(just kidding of course)
--
Suzy
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
Talking of size - just went to see 4 series in the metal and was struck by how long it looks. At 4638 mm it's only around 200 mm longer than a 911 (and 60mm longer than the 3 series it replaces) but also over 200 mm wider than standard 991. Just looks mahooosive in the showroom.
--
991 (what a car!) XC90 - Black/Black 2 kids, 1 dog
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
bridggar:
At 4638 mm it's only around 200 mm longer than a 911 (and 60mm longer than the 3 series it replaces) but also over 200 mm wider than standard 991. Just looks mahooosive in the showroom.
I don't believe that - 200mm wider than a base 991??
Are you sure?
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
What is the point of selling an expensive sportscar car after a year and 2.500 miles?
It means either of two things IMO:
- they didn't budget their finances well and need to sell very soon after, or
- they are compulsive consumers who get tired easily of their purchase and crave for the next new thing
Such people are rightfully punished by the market. The smart people buy off those.
--
"Form follows function"
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
It ties in with the snippet I posted the other day that the cars are coming back earlier than normal with lower mileage. If people aren't using them for whatever reason then demand has dropped and therefore prices have had to drop accordingly. The reason interests me and it can't just be the recession because the 997 GTS sold like hot cakes. Perceived poor value value is probably part of the problem due to the big price rises for the 991 and the relatively luke warm reviews (from the UK based magazines appealing to the keen driver) and forum complaints might be part of the equation.
--
Gen II Cayman S
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
bridggar:
I don't fully understand what Harry means by the delta between Europe & UK not helping? I guess this more than vindicates RC lease approach!!! (well done!)
--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
Porker:
RC:
I don't know but every time I look at my 991 Turbo S in the garage, it actually seems to be quite a "small" car.
Because your other two cars are SUV's?
However...this is a X3 on the left, not really a big car.
--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
GR:
It ties in with the snippet I posted the other day that the cars are coming back earlier than normal with lower mileage. If people aren't using them for whatever reason then demand has dropped and therefore prices have had to drop accordingly. The reason interests me and it can't just be the recession because the 997 GTS sold like hot cakes. Perceived poor value value is probably part of the problem due to the big price rises for the 991 and the relatively luke warm reviews (from the UK based magazines appealing to the keen driver) and forum complaints might be part of the equation.
I think it is a matter of people buying cars they cannot really afford. There is volatility in most economies and what was affordable yesterday might be a burden you want to get rid of today.
Once you've bought your 991, you wouldn't sell so soon and suffer the huge drop just because abc magazine declared it unfit for the keen driver or because you subsequently found it was not the best value.
--
"Form follows function"
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
According to the BMW website - W 2017mm at the rear.
http://www.bmw.co.uk/en/new-vehicles/4/coupe/2013/technicaldata.html
--
991 (what a car!) XC90 - Black/Black 2 kids, 1 dog
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
bridggar:
According to the BMW website - W 2017mm at the rear.
http://www.bmw.co.uk/en/new-vehicles/4/coupe/2013/technicaldata.html
Uhu. That's the width across the mirrors, not the rear wings of the car.
--
fritz
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
bridggar:
I don't fully understand what Harry means by the delta between Europe & UK not helping? I guess this more than vindicates RC lease approach!!! (well done!)
Even sales guys from Porsche are jumping ship now, was at HR Owen Knightsbridge yesterday and meet a guy who use to work at Porsche Hatfield but now works at Ferrari...tried to sell me a car, I'm still considering
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
As I predicted here, the days of moderate depreciation on P cars are over (except maybe the GT3). The higher the model, the worse it will be. My 09 Cayenne has lost 70% of its value in 4 years. Makes owning a Ferrari cheap in comparison. I can't even begin to think what a 4 year old Panamera turbo S will loose over the same time (75%?) as the Cayenne is way cheaper.
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
SciFrog:
As I predicted here, the days of moderate depreciation on P cars are over (except maybe the GT3). The higher the model, the worse it will be. My 09 Cayenne has lost 70% of its value in 4 years. Makes owning a Ferrari cheap in comparison. I can't even begin to think what a 4 year old Panamera turbo S will loose over the same time (75%?) as the Cayenne is way cheaper.
This is so true!
I lost over over $45k in 2 years when I decided to sell my 2011 CTT and $13.5k with the GTS in only 5 months 
But then again, we decided to pick up an '09 PDK for half the price of a 991 S with options (below $50k!!)
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
I think all high end brands, including Ferrari, have substantial depreciation over 3-4 years. Extremely rare versions drop as well but regain their value more quickly over time.
And often wealthy buyers try cars on for size and just trade them in for a new one on personal whim.
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
Cars depreciate. But some more than others. A 4 year old California has lost only 35% of its value. A 8 year old 612 lost 60%. A 6 year old Aston lost 60%. Porsche is likely worse than all these "exotics", more in line with Audi or more common brands. OR course Bentley, Maserati and Lambo still have epic depreciations.
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
Stupid question: Why don't you guys all buy a Ferrari or McLaren and be happy? 
Sorry for being that blunt but some of you are whining like a bunch of little girls when they get their first period. 
C'mon, we are all adults. We know what we want, we know what we pay for, we known depreciation pretty well and we know if a car is the right choice for us or not.
I lease my cars because I simply don't want to be bothered with resale value, whatever and yes, it may be more expensive at times but I like to plan things ahead, I don't like (financial) surprises and if Porsche would be the wrong brand for me, for whatever reason, I would switch to a different one. Not that I haven't tried before but I always ended up with Porsche again. Why? Because their cars make me happy and they are fun to drive. If you are unhappy, for whatever reason, make a decision, it is your choice and your money.
I am sorry but I really don't get it. 
Speaking of depreciation, it really depends on the region/country. In Germany, exotics usually depreciate more than in other countries.
Look at this California offer in Germany:
Or this one:
--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
Just saying Porsche used to be good values and depreciate not too bad. But not anymore.
What is wrong with writing that? It is just a fact, and likely won't change one's decision to buy one car or another...
Like you said, car always loose money anyway and luxury and sport cars are totally futile. Just a luxury.
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
SciFrog:
Just saying Porsche used to be good values and depreciate not too bad. But not anymore.
What is wrong with writing that? It is just a fact, and likely won't change one's decision to buy one car or another...
Like you said, car always loose money anyway and luxury and sport cars are totally futile. Just a luxury.
This has changed a long time ago, especially since Porsche started to produce more than 80000 cars per year. I wouldn't call a Porsche 911 a mass product though, the Cayenne is one and maybe even the Panamera. The 911 is still a very special car and the reason why depreciation is higher right now may be the car markets, especially in Europe, themselves. Car sales have dropped substantially and while the 911 still seems to sell well in the current market, I really think that the market for used cars is different now. However, my dealer claims that demand for 911 is pretty high, so...
--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
I really enjoy this Fourm, but I do not post often. This particualr subject has always been misunderstood in my opinion. When you buy a highline car like a Porsche you are not buying transportaion, you are paying for an expirence.
If you are comparing apples to apples pick any modern production car that was built three years ago and look at a three year old Porsche and you will see that Porsche holds its value better than most.
With that in mind rememeber that all of these cars, low production or not are meant to be driven and enjoyed. That is what you are paying for. If you are not driving it and you spend more time worring about the value, then don't buy it
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
amar1995:
I really enjoy this Fourm, but I do not post often. This particualr subject has always been misunderstood in my opinion. When you buy a highline car like a Porsche you are not buying transportaion, you are paying for an expirence.
If you are comparing apples to apples pick any modern production car that was built three years ago and look at a three year old Porsche and you will see that Porsche holds its value better than most.
With that in mind rememeber that all of these cars, low production or not are meant to be driven and enjoyed. That is what you are paying for. If you are not driving it and you spend more time worring about the value, then don't buy it
Thanks Amar,
You should post more often 
--
- HS (Belgium) - '14 Porsche 991 GT3 (oct build) - '06 BMW 335I Coupe
Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only)
T O U C H E !
I have spent a lot of money on Porsches.. the rest I just squandered.
(Acknowledgment to George Best for the original quote)
Seriously, when I add up the cost of the eleven Porsches I have owned, I have no regrets. In the scheme of things, it was not all that significant, given that it has been a life-long passion. I recently had lunch with an old friend who probably still has his first dollar; he never really lived. I worked for him in 1976 when I bought my first 911. He thought I was crazy; "you could buy a house with that", he said. (I eventually did buy a house, too). Now, with failing health, he reflected back and said, "You know, you did it right."
And, that is exactly how I want to exit this life... with the feeling that I did it right. Sorry... Need to get back to my new Turbo spec. now.. cheers!
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