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nberry said:
To my knowledge there are no "official" factory times for the Ring. Car manufacturers who build their cars for the Ring allow friendly journalist post times and the factory follows up with an unofficial time from a factory driver who exceeds the posted "official" time. It is all a game and the smart car manufacturers refuse to participate in the ruse. Ferrari is one.
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SciFrog said:
7:429 for the Corvette...
Mar 21, 2006 9:15:08 PM
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nberry said:
Carlos, if you believe the Z06 will kill the 430 at the Ring then that undercuts your argument regarding the 997TT and 430.
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MKSGR said:Quote:
nberry said:
To my knowledge there are no "official" factory times for the Ring. Car manufacturers who build their cars for the Ring allow friendly journalist post times and the factory follows up with an unofficial time from a factory driver who exceeds the posted "official" time. It is all a game and the smart car manufacturers refuse to participate in the ruse. Ferrari is one.
Are you implying, for example, that sport auto is more friendly to Lamborghini than to Ferrari? Even the old Gallardo (500hp version, standard tires) was substantially quicker than the F430 (semi-slicks!) on the NBR.
Please get informed before writing further nonsense. sportauto is a well reputed source. They do 12 supertests p.a. Only few of them feature Porsche models.
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nberry said:
Thomas are you saying that the 997TT suspesion is that much better than the Ferrari which would enable it to beat the Ferrari around the Ring by 14 sec?
Mar 21, 2006 9:30:56 PM
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nberry said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
nberry said:
To my knowledge there are no "official" factory times for the Ring. Car manufacturers who build their cars for the Ring allow friendly journalist post times and the factory follows up with an unofficial time from a factory driver who exceeds the posted "official" time. It is all a game and the smart car manufacturers refuse to participate in the ruse. Ferrari is one.
Are you implying, for example, that sport auto is more friendly to Lamborghini than to Ferrari? Even the old Gallardo (500hp version, standard tires) was substantially quicker than the F430 (semi-slicks!) on the NBR.
Please get informed before writing further nonsense. sportauto is a well reputed source. They do 12 supertests p.a. Only few of them feature Porsche models.
What I am implying is Von Saurma and company Ring times are not indicative of what a car can do. You acknowledge that W. Rohrl will exceed Sport Auto time by a few seconds. What does that tell you? These times are inaccurate, worthless and a waste of time.
I find it amusing when the Z06 did 7:42 all the Porschephile howled impossible and used every explanation to disparage the time. Now that the 997TT does it in a faster time and again with far less performance capabilities than the Z06 nevertheless its time is accurate.
What a crock. Have you guy's no shame?
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tso said:Quote:
nberry said:
Thomas are you saying that the 997TT suspesion is that much better than the Ferrari which would enable it to beat the Ferrari around the Ring by 14 sec?
That is exactly what I am saying could be the case. I do not know the details of the standard setup, but same could potentially give an advantage to the 430 on the Ferrari testtrack.
Nick I have seen this time after time, that you on smaller tracks make minor changes offering seconds of difference.
I bet some of our more experienced track members can come with more details.
If we assume the Z06 did the 7:42 - Why do you think the GM engineers played with the suspension for 2 days (believe it was 2 days) as they claim not to have touched the engine nor tyres - I guess they were not just cleaning the car for the photograph
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JimFlat6 said:
Fathom this. All Z06s come STANDARD with a adjustable suspension. The engineers used the ring to establish the base settings for all cars sold to retail customers. The Corvette Z06 that you buy today comes with its suspension dialed in to the same settings as they finalized at the Ring.
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devo said:Quote:
SciFrog said:
If the Ferraris were such killers at the NBR, why do you think Ferrari doesn't release factory times?
Don't get me wrong, the F430 or 599GTB are THE cars to have, they are just impossible to buy at a decent price in the US. As cheaper alternatives, the 997TT, 997GT3 or Z06 are awsome cars depending on your budget.
Ridiculous.
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tso said:Quote:
nberry said:
No offence Nick but how many hours have you spend behind the wheel on tracks. Let me be honest mine can be counted less than 20 if we talk cars (all in Porshes and Ferraris), well above 1000 in karting. Further I guess another 100 in the pits with pro race teams.
Thomas the one thing I will not do is boast about my driving skills.What mine or anyone's for that matter are irrelevant to the discussion. Every participant on this board understands there are many variables to track times.
However since you asked, suffice it is to say I have SUBSTANTIALLY more track experience then you but less karting. Additional I have ridden with some of the finest Porsche race drivers.
I will say this. Karting is excellent driving experience. So much so, I considered partnering with some individuals to open a karting track. Sadly, when we crunched the numbers, it just did not work out.
BTW, dialing in suspensions for track work is not what is the issue between the 997TT, Z06 or 430. We are discussing stock cars. You seem to be confused on this issue.
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JimFlat6 said:Fathom this. All Z06s come STANDARD with a adjustable suspension. The engineers used the ring to establish the base settings for all cars sold to retail customers. The Corvette Z06 that you buy today comes with its suspension dialed in to the same settings as they finalized at the Ring.
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JimFlat6 said:
What we have though is a class of cars now that reliably can lap the ring in under 8 minutes. And thats good for everybody.
Mar 22, 2006 3:03:02 AM
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Turbo Al said:Wiedeking and his engineers need to tune up those VTG's, re-program that TipS to handle 1000Nm torque with pre-pre-boost, develop a quad turbo arrangement by linking two twin turbochargers in serial, convert every amalgam not thermally stressed into CF monococque, and get the beast to dip into the lower 7:00's.
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Turbo Al said:Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
What we have though is a class of cars now that reliably can lap the ring in under 8 minutes. And thats good for everybody.
But Jim,
Sub-8:00 ain't good enough anymore, I mean, what if some envious 'Vette driver, frustrated at the lack of respect shown him on rennteam's 997 Turbo Board, instead pulls up at a stoplight next to me in a Radical SR3, boasting, I believe, sub-7:00 'Ring credentials, now what? Even my tuned 996TTS 600HP projectile would have trouble, even in the straightline, as would my Noble M400, especially in tight corners.
Wiedeking and his engineers need to tune up those VTG's, re-program that TipS to handle 1000Nm torque with pre-pre-boost, develop a quad turbo arrangement by linking two twin turbochargers in serial, convert every amalgam not thermally stressed into CF monococque, and get the beast to dip into the lower 7:00's.
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JimFlat6 said:
Well well. Amazing trend here. Porsche 997TT, Ferrari F430 and Corvette Z06 all mentioned in the same breath and all so very close in performance.
Comparing them all, I think Ferrari barely wins the style category, the Porsche wins a special award for desperate mechanical overkill and the Corvette runs off with awards for easiest to maintain and most reliable.
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nberry said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
nberry said:
To my knowledge there are no "official" factory times for the Ring. Car manufacturers who build their cars for the Ring allow friendly journalist post times and the factory follows up with an unofficial time from a factory driver who exceeds the posted "official" time. It is all a game and the smart car manufacturers refuse to participate in the ruse. Ferrari is one.
Are you implying, for example, that sport auto is more friendly to Lamborghini than to Ferrari? Even the old Gallardo (500hp version, standard tires) was substantially quicker than the F430 (semi-slicks!) on the NBR.
Please get informed before writing further nonsense. sportauto is a well reputed source. They do 12 supertests p.a. Only few of them feature Porsche models.
What I am implying is Von Saurma and company Ring times are not indicative of what a car can do. You acknowledge that W. Rohrl will exceed Sport Auto time by a few seconds. What does that tell you? These times are inaccurate, worthless and a waste of time.
Mar 22, 2006 8:29:37 AM
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MKSGR said:Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
nberry said:
To my knowledge there are no "official" factory times for the Ring. Car manufacturers who build their cars for the Ring allow friendly journalist post times and the factory follows up with an unofficial time from a factory driver who exceeds the posted "official" time. It is all a game and the smart car manufacturers refuse to participate in the ruse. Ferrari is one.
Are you implying, for example, that sport auto is more friendly to Lamborghini than to Ferrari? Even the old Gallardo (500hp version, standard tires) was substantially quicker than the F430 (semi-slicks!) on the NBR.
Please get informed before writing further nonsense. sportauto is a well reputed source. They do 12 supertests p.a. Only few of them feature Porsche models.
What I am implying is Von Saurma and company Ring times are not indicative of what a car can do. You acknowledge that W. Rohrl will exceed Sport Auto time by a few seconds. What does that tell you? These times are inaccurate, worthless and a waste of time.
Why that? They are the only meaningful times as the are done by the same driver on the same track
Mar 22, 2006 8:54:41 AM
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SoCalHoosier said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
nberry said:
To my knowledge there are no "official" factory times for the Ring. Car manufacturers who build their cars for the Ring allow friendly journalist post times and the factory follows up with an unofficial time from a factory driver who exceeds the posted "official" time. It is all a game and the smart car manufacturers refuse to participate in the ruse. Ferrari is one.
Are you implying, for example, that sport auto is more friendly to Lamborghini than to Ferrari? Even the old Gallardo (500hp version, standard tires) was substantially quicker than the F430 (semi-slicks!) on the NBR.
Please get informed before writing further nonsense. sportauto is a well reputed source. They do 12 supertests p.a. Only few of them feature Porsche models.
What I am implying is Von Saurma and company Ring times are not indicative of what a car can do. You acknowledge that W. Rohrl will exceed Sport Auto time by a few seconds. What does that tell you? These times are inaccurate, worthless and a waste of time.
Why that? They are the only meaningful times as the are done by the same driver on the same track
But the driver's experience level with each of the cars is radically different. In other words, over the years, Von Saurma has driven a lot more 911s on the ring than all the Corvettes and Ferraris combined.
Mar 22, 2006 10:46:11 AM
Mar 22, 2006 11:02:29 AM
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SoCalHoosier said:
So they don't test the GT2, GT3, GT3RS, TT, TT S, C2, C2S, C4, C4S as different cars? (did I leave any out)
Not too many iterations of the Vette or Ferrari.