Crown

throt:

Thanks, guys.

Think I maybe worrying too much. The sales representive stated that the 991GT3 was not as harsh as the 997 with -20 but that judgement will surely be with the 997GT3 as only a few have driven the 991GT3. I have not gone with the club sport, I chose the adaptive seats along with some other goodies, including the front lift. Exterior is white. I suppose for me it just feels funny buying without trying.

Thanks again.....

Congrats !! Finally you ...... almost did it !!  I will go for a GT3 too, not 100% sure yet if it will be the regular or the RS.

As a DD , I would immediately chance the tires for the PSS . The cup are no good for DD .

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

PBS2010:

My current Porsche has PCCBs and the one before did not.  I immediately noticed the difference in terms of brake feel and performance.  I was really amazed with the PCCBs and will not have anything else.  However, with time and wear and a few track sessions, the supersharp initial brake bite goes off.

How many track days a year do you do ? Do you ' abuse' the brakes on the track ?  I hesitate as to go for PCCB or not on the Gt3/RS 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Boxster Coupe GTS:

reginos:

Boxster Coupe GTS:

Apparently, the Michelin Pilot Super Sport will be available "N rated" in various 911 sizes before too long, following the recent announcement of the Michelin Pilot Super Sport "N0" certified tyre for the Carrera GT... 

Do you know whether this will apply to 997 models?

Given that the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyre was developed as the replacement for the Michelin Pilot Sport 2, there should be plenty of sizes to fit earlier generation 911 models that have been running on Pilot Sport 2 tyres.

OPCs have been expecting the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres to be available "N rated" for some time now...

 

please keep in mind the following: although the MPSS will be N-rated it will NOT be on the official porsche list of admissible tyres ('freigabeliste') for the GT3. this is really where possible issue with warranty (in the worst of all cases) come from. 

peter

Again Peter, at least in the UK and Down under a manufacturer cannot dismiss a warranty claim for fitment of a non OEM part unless that part itself is proven to have created the claimed warranty issue. Porsche recommend a specific tyre for the GT3 but you wont get refused a factory engine warranty/recall claim because your Porsche has N rated tyres not reccomended for the GT3. Most of us taking this car to the track here and in the UK will probably rip off the expensive Michelin skins and replace with Hoosier and Hankook 214/221 or Toyo R888 as soon as the sizes and fitment are available from those manufacturers. Lifes a bit too short to be worrying about wether Porsche like my new R compound track tyres as Im ripping around at track at speads up to 250k pph un insured LOL!

Porsche 911 GT3 Data Table Comparison by Auto Motor und Sport...

WOW didn't knew that they made such a step in the 100-0 braking - guess with Standart steel brakes  

Thanks for this AMS data. incredible results for the 991 GT3. Lighter than the last 3-4 gens in testing too. Performance number especially in gear acceleration and braking are out of this world....

I'm a little surprised at the weight distribution.

BjoernB:

WOW didn't knew that they made such a step in the 100-0 braking - guess with Standart steel brakes  

The 0-100,0-160 and 0-200 were behind the factory data so we assume thats due to the extra weight on board. Maybe tyre related too as there are two choices.

Does anyone have the factory data for 997 gen 1 +2 GT3 for 0-100,0-160 and 0-200 so we can see how those compared to the AMS data...?

Overall the incremental improvements between generations performance data look evolutionary right up until the 991 GT3 which improves the performance data by an average of an extra "generation" (i.e. in most cases twice the time improvement than the previous gen). In therms of braking the improvements are four fold!

I guess this is what has made the 991 GT3 a natural rival to the 4.0RS in many performance tests although the mid range torque from the 4.0RS definately makes itself known over the 991 GT3 in teh AMS data.

It would have been nice to have the RS data too...

nberry:

I believe Christian is overstating the case that the GT3 is not a DD car. No doubt it is designed for performance but Porsche in its effort to expand the GT3 client base has made it more complaint for DD. Will it ride like a Audi? No but it will ride close to a 458 in DD mode.

You live in San Diego.

Even in Germany, I don't think the GT3 will be a very good daily driver. Yes, a nice toy for weekends and maybe even for driving to work from time to time but let the weather gods go nuts and you will regret driving it. It really depends on what you are looking in a car. If it is fun and enjoyment, the GT3 is just the right car for you. If you are looking for a car to go from A to B in a very stress-free environment under all driving conditions, I think this is not the right car. A GT3 is a GT3 and while I can see myself using it as a daily driver at age 30, now at 48, I think that I want to have some comfort too, especially when I am tired from work and just want to get home without having to worry too much about rain or bad streets. Or my back.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

@ 991GT3, Yes the front lift is on my selection, Thank you.

@ Gnil, lol, been a long long wait mate as you know full well. I have always liked the the more hard core GT3 but I did still consider the 911s and the Cayman but on thinking about it and knowing myself I think I would regret not going straight for what I really want..

Its a relief because on joining Rennteam I was itchy and then I carried on being itchy for over 8 years. You can only imagine my pain watching you guys buy your rides, haha. Cheers..

throt

"I didn't do it"

macca993:

Again Peter, at least in the UK and Down under a manufacturer cannot dismiss a warranty claim for fitment of a non OEM part unless that part itself is proven to have created the claimed warranty issue. Porsche recommend a specific tyre for the GT3 but you wont get refused a factory engine warranty/recall claim because your Porsche has N rated tyres not reccomended for the GT3. Most of us taking this car to the track here and in the UK will probably rip off the expensive Michelin skins and replace with Hoosier and Hankook 214/221 or Toyo R888 as soon as the sizes and fitment are available from those manufacturers. Lifes a bit too short to be worrying about wether Porsche like my new R compound track tyres as Im ripping around at track at speads up to 250k pph un insured LOL!

As far as I know, EU law forbids car manufacturers to oblige the usage of a certain tire BRAND. Only the size (width, etc.) and type (speed index, weight index, etc.) needs to be the one approved by the manufacturer of the car.

I do not worry about people using a non N-rated tire on the track (even if I would be careful at the beginning since there isn't much experience yet from "older" GT3 cars because of the new all-wheel steering and our sources indicate that the new all-wheel steering is very tire "sensitive") but on the street and especially at the limit.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

The only tire related warranty issue that comes to mind was the use of R compound tires on the M96/M97 engine cars which could result in oil starvation due to high G's possible w/ the tires on the track. Wasn't there a warning in the owner's manual regarding the use of R compound tires? 

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill

macca993:

Again Peter, at least in the UK and Down under a manufacturer cannot dismiss a warranty claim for fitment of a non OEM part unless that part itself is proven to have created the claimed warranty issue. Porsche recommend a specific tyre for the GT3 but you wont get refused a factory engine warranty/recall claim because your Porsche has N rated tyres not reccomended for the GT3. Most of us taking this car to the track here and in the UK will probably rip off the expensive Michelin skins and replace with Hoosier and Hankook 214/221 or Toyo R888 as soon as the sizes and fitment are available from those manufacturers. Lifes a bit too short to be worrying about wether Porsche like my new R compound track tyres as Im ripping around at track at speads up to 250k pph un insured LOL!

macca,

i get your point but i am too much a scientist and not enough of an engineer. so i got scared of 'programming and tuning based on cup tyres'.

p

RC:

nberry:

I believe Christian is overstating the case that the GT3 is not a DD car. No doubt it is designed for performance but Porsche in its effort to expand the GT3 client base has made it more complaint for DD. Will it ride like a Audi? No but it will ride close to a 458 in DD mode.

You live in San Diego.

Even in Germany, I don't think the GT3 will be a very good daily driver. Yes, a nice toy for weekends and maybe even for driving to work from time to time but let the weather gods go nuts and you will regret driving it. It really depends on what you are looking in a car. If it is fun and enjoyment, the GT3 is just the right car for you. If you are looking for a car to go from A to B in a very stress-free environment under all driving conditions, I think this is not the right car. A GT3 is a GT3 and while I can see myself using it as a daily driver at age 30, now at 48, I think that I want to have some comfort too, especially when I am tired from work and just want to get home without having to worry too much about rain or bad streets. Or my back.

well, as you said it all boils down to what you expect from a daily driver. if i want to get from A to B i take a taxi, train or airplane. if i drive i want to have fun. but others have certainly different needs.

p

DaveC:

The only tire related warranty issue that comes to mind was the use of R compound tires on the M96/M97 engine cars which could result in oil starvation due to high G's possible w/ the tires on the track. Wasn't there a warning in the owner's manual regarding the use of R compound tires? 

Another good reason to have bought a 996/997 GT3 (or turbo) LOL!

macca993:

Does anyone have the factory data for 997 gen 1 +2 GT3 for 0-100,0-160 and 0-200 so we can see how those compared to the AMS data...?

gen 1: 4.3, 8.7. gen2: 4.1, 8.2, 12.3.

moo:

RC:

nberry:

I believe Christian is overstating the case that the GT3 is not a DD car. No doubt it is designed for performance but Porsche in its effort to expand the GT3 client base has made it more complaint for DD. Will it ride like a Audi? No but it will ride close to a 458 in DD mode.

You live in San Diego.

Even in Germany, I don't think the GT3 will be a very good daily driver. Yes, a nice toy for weekends and maybe even for driving to work from time to time but let the weather gods go nuts and you will regret driving it. It really depends on what you are looking in a car. If it is fun and enjoyment, the GT3 is just the right car for you. If you are looking for a car to go from A to B in a very stress-free environment under all driving conditions, I think this is not the right car. A GT3 is a GT3 and while I can see myself using it as a daily driver at age 30, now at 48, I think that I want to have some comfort too, especially when I am tired from work and just want to get home without having to worry too much about rain or bad streets. Or my back.

well, as you said it all boils down to what you expect from a daily driver. if i want to get from A to B i take a taxi, train or airplane. if i drive i want to have fun. but others have certainly different needs.

p

Yes, it's what one defines as a daily driver. Mine will be for fun, evening blast after work and obviously the weekend thrash out in the countryside which will probably amount to accumulating around 6000 miles a year on its clock. Can't see myself at the ring due to work and time, but you never know...

throt

"I didn't do it"

Nice video: http://youtu.be/Xfi__aUgfgE

1987 911 Carrera 3.2 - 1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2012 Cayenne Diesel - 2010 Abarth 500 - 1995 BMW318ti

Anders:

macca993:

Does anyone have the factory data for 997 gen 1 +2 GT3 for 0-100,0-160 and 0-200 so we can see how those compared to the AMS data...?

gen 1: 4.3, 8.7. gen2: 4.1, 8.2, 12.3.

Thanks Anders. Apart from the 0-100 where AMS is .1s slower with the 991 GT3 than the factory figures all the other figures (difference between AMS and factory) look remarkably consistent demonstrating that the additional passenger, timing gear and full tank do have an impact on longer acceleration.

What would be really interesting to know would be the 997.1 RS/997.2 RS and 4.0RS AMS times to map against the 991 GT3. Im assuming the 991 GT3 would beat the 997.1/2 GT3RS but obviously struggle with the 4.0RS above 100kmph.

Braking times however and in gear  flexibility I suspect nothing even the 4.0RS will come even close. This is teh 991 GT3s real weapon. Chassis, brakes and in gear accelerations.

It's all in their test archive at  www.auto-motor-und-sport.de. In German but it's manageable :). AMS numbers: gen 1 RS: 4.2, 8.8, 13.5. gen 2 RS: 3.9, 8.2, 12.7. RS 4.0: 3.9, 8.0, 12.3. Measured weights: 1428, 1404, 1410 respectively.

Just spoke w/ my dealer and asked him to add PCCB to my order.  Very impressive data w/ the PCCBs. After all,  it's only money, right?

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill

DaveC:

Just spoke w/ my dealer and asked him to add PCCB to my order.  Very impressive data w/ the PCCBs. After all,  it's only money, right?

PCCB is amazing but not really the best choice for frequent track driving. If you keep that in mind, you are going to be amazed by PCCB. Frequent tracking (I am not talking about your typical driver ed fun weekends) wears off the brake calipers fast, resulting in huge replacement cost.

I love PCCB and I try to have it on all my Porsche sports cars.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

 If you are looking for a car to go from A to B in a very stress-free environment under all driving conditions, I think this is not the right car. A GT3 is a GT3 and while I can see myself using it as a daily driver at age 30, now at 48, I think that I want to have some comfort too, especially when I am tired from work and just want to get home without having to worry too much about rain or bad streets. Or my back.

sounds like the perfect job description of the audi RS6 to me.

peter

RC:

DaveC:

Just spoke w/ my dealer and asked him to add PCCB to my order.  Very impressive data w/ the PCCBs. After all,  it's only money, right?

PCCB is amazing but not really the best choice for frequent track driving. If you keep that in mind, you are going to be amazed by PCCB. Frequent tracking (I am not talking about your typical driver ed fun weekends) wears off the brake calipers fast, resulting in huge replacement cost.

I love PCCB and I try to have it on all my Porsche sports cars.

Always appreciate your advice RC. We have a local track in Palm Beach county and our dealer along w/ Orbit Racing sponsors a couple of "customer appreciation" days each year for their GT3/Turbo/RS customers to "excerise" their cars. Very low key, very non-competitive.  That's the extent of my track expectation such as it is, along w/ weekend driving on our back roads.  I have another vehicle for the mundane demands of daily driving.

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill

moo:

RC:

 If you are looking for a car to go from A to B in a very stress-free environment under all driving conditions, I think this is not the right car. A GT3 is a GT3 and while I can see myself using it as a daily driver at age 30, now at 48, I think that I want to have some comfort too, especially when I am tired from work and just want to get home without having to worry too much about rain or bad streets. Or my back.

sounds like the perfect job description of the audi RS6 to me.

peter

Too slow, not really fun on windy roads...compared to a 991 Turbo S for example.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Boxster Coupe GTS:

 

The range of tyre sizes now available for the Michelin Pilot Super Sport in Europe/UK is quite considerable...

Michelin Pilot Super Sport -- List of Tyre Sizes

...with, at this point in time, the following MPSS tyres listed as "N rated" (N0) approved by Porsche...

• 255 40 R 20 101 ZR(Y) XL | N0
• 265 35 R 19 98 ZR(Y) XL | N0
• 295 35 R 20 105 ZR(Y) XL | N0
• 335 30 R 20 108 ZR(Y) XL | N0

...hopefully more 911 sizes of the MPSS will be available soon approved as "N rated" by Porsche! 

Why the higher load index?

AFAIK only 987/981 is using this rear tires. 
In comparison, the N-rated Pilot Sport2 does have load index 94 

nberry:

I believe Christian is overstating the case that the GT3 is not a DD car. No doubt it is designed for performance but Porsche in its effort to expand the GT3 client base has made it more complaint for DD. Will it ride like a Audi? No but it will ride close to a 458 in DD mode.

Thanks, Nick.

A more compliant ride than the 997GT3 is what most have been thinking, only time will tell though..

throt

"I didn't do it"

"The Porsche 911 GT3 - Feast for the Senses"

"The man responsible for the team that developed the new GT3, Andreas Preuninger, describes what makes the new model so special for the driver..."

The Porsche 911 GT3 - Feast for the Senses - Video Link