Crown

DaveC:

A "daily driver" IMHO requires versatility for a variety of purposes that vary widely from individual to individual.  These tasks may include grocery shopping, picking up laundry, takeout food at the end of the day, fetching children from whatever and whenever, in addition to the daily drive to and from work.  IMHO, those tasks are not what I would choose to relegate to any Porsche sports car, let alone a GT3, which I believe was conceived for less mundane purposes. All my Porsches have been weekend only cars, with the only requirement being that I can take my wife for an evening drive or to dinner in reasonable comfort. A friend had a 996 GT3 which, IMHO, could not even serve the miminal purpose of an evening drive with the wife as it was simply and exclusively focused on track performance--stiff suspension and steering/braking/shifting that required truly undivided attention and effort.  The 997 GT3 was more suited to minimal off track duties and I suspect the 991 GT3 will be similar, but they are not grocery getters or honey do list vehicles, again IMHO.  Fair weather, light traffic, and a few grins and thrills is the sum total of my expectations for the car. By the way, I do not intend to track the car beyond a few sessions with Orbit Racing at our local venue. To paraphrase Sir Edmund Hilary, why own one? Because I can and choose to.

The question must be asked: is the 991 GT3 more in the mold of the 996 or 997 variants?  That is, is it almost an exclusive track day car or is it more streetable, much like its immediate predecessor.  

A couple of seasons ago, Top Gear's co-host James May had a story on cars becoming too focused on performing optimally on the Nurburgring, at the expense of daily usability.  While the GT3 is track-focus, it was originally developed as a car that can be driven to the track.  And tires do make a big difference in dry, wet, and high-speed stability conditions.

nberry:

I believe Christian is overstating the case that the GT3 is not a DD car. No doubt it is designed for performance but Porsche in its effort to expand the GT3 client base has made it more complaint for DD. Will it ride like a Audi? No but it will ride close to a 458 in DD mode.

I agree, the GT3 can serve as quite a good DD. Acquaplaning is a risk, that's true. However, the same risk you have in a 991 turbo. Maybe you lose the car like 20-40 kph later (compared to the GT3). However, the problem is still the same 

precisely. however, going at 100kph or 140kph makes a difference. but this has nothing to do with 4-wheel drive, just with the tyres and the bigger weight of the turbo.

recently there was an interesting comparism between the carrera S and the carrera 4S in a german magazine (autobild or sportauto, i don't remember which). they showed that 4WD does not change the laptime (on hockenheim i think) under dry or wet conditions, just when there is snow the advantage became very apparent.

peter

moo:

precisely. however, going at 100kph or 140kph makes a difference. but this has nothing to do with 4-wheel drive, just with the tyres and the bigger weight of the turbo.

recently there was an interesting comparism between the carrera S and the carrera 4S in a german magazine (autobild or sportauto, i don't remember which). they showed that 4WD does not change the laptime (on hockenheim i think) under dry or wet conditions, just when there is snow the advantage became very apparent.

peter

4WD gives more confidence in the wet , which ultimately may cost. It cannot save you if you aquaplane.

--

"Form follows function"

Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 NO

Porsche 911 GT3 is a great daily driver IMHO, but in the UK you might consider switching to Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres after you've worn out the original set of tyres (i.e. Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 / Dunlop Sport Maxx Race) to provide a super car experience that you can enjoy in all prevailing weather conditions... 

...hope you enjoy your new GT3!  

What about warranty and chassis specific tuning? That would be worrisome for me 

i have a friend with a gt3rs and he changed to the super sport and he is very happy!

Apparently, the Michelin Pilot Super Sport will be available "N rated" in various 911 sizes before too long, following the recent announcement of the Michelin Pilot Super Sport "N0" certified tyre for the Carrera GT... 

Boxster Coupe GTS:

Apparently, the Michelin Pilot Super Sport will be available "N rated" in various 911 sizes before too long, following the recent announcement of the Michelin Pilot Super Sport "N0" certified tyre for the Carrera GT... 

Do you know whether this will apply to 997 models?

"Form follows function"

IMO the 991 GT3 can be used as a daily driver provided that one is happy to have a reasonably firm, sporty ride. I personally love that.

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

reginos:

Boxster Coupe GTS:

Apparently, the Michelin Pilot Super Sport will be available "N rated" in various 911 sizes before too long, following the recent announcement of the Michelin Pilot Super Sport "N0" certified tyre for the Carrera GT... 

Do you know whether this will apply to 997 models?

Given that the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyre was developed as the replacement for the Michelin Pilot Sport 2, there should be plenty of sizes to fit earlier generation 911 models that have been running on Pilot Sport 2 tyres.

OPCs have been expecting the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres to be available "N rated" for some time now...

Thanks, guys.

Think I maybe worrying too much. The sales representive stated that the 991GT3 was not as harsh as the 997 with -20 but that judgement will surely be with the 997GT3 as only a few have driven the 991GT3. I have not gone with the club sport, I chose the adaptive seats along with some other goodies, including the front lift. Exterior is white. I suppose for me it just feels funny buying without trying.

Thanks again.....

throt

"I didn't do it"

My current Porsche has PCCBs and the one before did not.  I immediately noticed the difference in terms of brake feel and performance.  I was really amazed with the PCCBs and will not have anything else.  However, with time and wear and a few track sessions, the supersharp initial brake bite goes off.

Boxster Coupe GTS:

reginos:

Boxster Coupe GTS:

Apparently, the Michelin Pilot Super Sport will be available "N rated" in various 911 sizes before too long, following the recent announcement of the Michelin Pilot Super Sport "N0" certified tyre for the Carrera GT... 

Do you know whether this will apply to 997 models?

Given that the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyre was developed as the replacement for the Michelin Pilot Sport 2, there should be plenty of sizes to fit earlier generation 911 models that have been running on Pilot Sport 2 tyres.

OPCs have been expecting the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres to be available "N rated" for some time now...

 

Thank you for the info

"Form follows function"

reginos:

Boxster Coupe GTS:

reginos:

Boxster Coupe GTS:

Apparently, the Michelin Pilot Super Sport will be available "N rated" in various 911 sizes before too long, following the recent announcement of the Michelin Pilot Super Sport "N0" certified tyre for the Carrera GT... 

Do you know whether this will apply to 997 models?

Given that the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyre was developed as the replacement for the Michelin Pilot Sport 2, there should be plenty of sizes to fit earlier generation 911 models that have been running on Pilot Sport 2 tyres.

OPCs have been expecting the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres to be available "N rated" for some time now...

 

Thank you for the info

What I find interesting is Michelin has the Pilot Super Sport on sale since last year in the United States, and with more comprehensive sizing than found on the linked press release.  

KresoF1:

Few more figures from AMS test...

1433kg measured weight.

ISO and 18m test car the fastest overall. 991 GT3 is faster in curves then 997 GT3 RS 4.0, in fact as you will see in forthcoming Supertest faster around Ring as well.

Optional PCCBs produced the best braking power measured so far by AMS.

Only two minus things are not so good straight line stability and bad wet road traction(which is expected due to UHP tires).

Hi Kreso,

Thanks...impressive indeed. You remember that a few month ago we discussed a bit about the 991 GT3 performance to be expected..you mentioned at the time that any time by SA below 7:30 would be sensational..so you know the result already? did SA already make the test.?

thanks :)

thanks..

Now we just need to know what you define as "pretty good"...anyway..it doesnt matter so much..

Im amazed how you can know the times already before they are even published...

Thanks for your contributions...we know that you were very very very often correct - period :)

CGX car nut:

reginos:

Boxster Coupe GTS:

reginos:

Boxster Coupe GTS:

Apparently, the Michelin Pilot Super Sport will be available "N rated" in various 911 sizes before too long, following the recent announcement of the Michelin Pilot Super Sport "N0" certified tyre for the Carrera GT... 

Do you know whether this will apply to 997 models?

Given that the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyre was developed as the replacement for the Michelin Pilot Sport 2, there should be plenty of sizes to fit earlier generation 911 models that have been running on Pilot Sport 2 tyres.

OPCs have been expecting the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres to be available "N rated" for some time now...

 

Thank you for the info

What I find interesting is Michelin has the Pilot Super Sport on sale since last year in the United States, and with more comprehensive sizing than found on the linked press release.  

They had NO MPSS "N" rated tires for sale in the US only  generics without  "N"rating

My understanding is the MPSC2s on the 991 GT3 are treadwear 150 and the Dunlop Maxxx are treadwear 80. 

Both tyres summer road tyre style tread blocks and are said to be far more stable in teh wet than previous MPSC tyres which had few grooves for evacuating water. The aquaplaning issue is the result of low standard tread depth (these tyres ship with around 5-6mm tread vs 10-12mm. However this is also an issue on 50% worn summer  tyres from any similar maufacturer!! There really is now little difference in wet performance form a pure design point of view, a little more aquaplaning from new and in the case of the Michelin a more generous treadwear rating (road life of tyre will be increased). The biggest single parameter now is temperature. These tyres will not perform well below 0 C and probably start to get compromised below 10C

Trundle_GT3:

CGX car nut:

reginos:

Boxster Coupe GTS:

reginos:

Boxster Coupe GTS:

Apparently, the Michelin Pilot Super Sport will be available "N rated" in various 911 sizes before too long, following the recent announcement of the Michelin Pilot Super Sport "N0" certified tyre for the Carrera GT... 

Do you know whether this will apply to 997 models?

Given that the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyre was developed as the replacement for the Michelin Pilot Sport 2, there should be plenty of sizes to fit earlier generation 911 models that have been running on Pilot Sport 2 tyres.

OPCs have been expecting the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres to be available "N rated" for some time now...

 

Thank you for the info

What I find interesting is Michelin has the Pilot Super Sport on sale since last year in the United States, and with more comprehensive sizing than found on the linked press release.  

They had NO MPSS "N" rated tires for sale in the US only  generics without  "N"rating.

The attached press release inferred that the MPSS was available in the EU in limited sizes, compared to the NA market.  This is different than the N rating issue.

macca993:

The biggest single parameter now is temperature. These tyres will not perform well below 0 C and probably start to get compromised below 10C

From my experience semi-slick style tyres like Michelin Cup,Pirelli Corsa,Toyo 888....need to be warmed up even in warm outside temperature,not only below 10 C.They need to be driven at speed to get some heat in them to see the difference,while driving around town at low speeds they have low grip and longer stopping distances.Also in the rain they are bad because it s harder to warm them up,not because of aquaplaning(at  normal speeds ,not 200kph).And onne more thing,even regular sporty tires like Michelin Pilot Sport,Bridgestone Potenza 050,Goodyear F1...usually start sliding a lot at around 5 C

lor:

macca993:

The biggest single parameter now is temperature. These tyres will not perform well below 0 C and probably start to get compromised below 10C

From my experience semi-slick style tyres like Michelin Cup,Pirelli Corsa,Toyo 888....need to be warmed up even in warm outside temperature,not only below 10 C.They need to be driven at speed to get some heat in them to see the difference,while driving around town at low speeds they have low grip and longer stopping distances.Also in the rain they are bad because it s harder to warm them up,not because of aquaplaning(at  normal speeds ,not 200kph).And onne more thing,even regular sporty tires like Michelin Pilot Sport,Bridgestone Potenza 050,Goodyear F1...usually start sliding a lot at around 5 C

I usually find that they start slipping around 10C and I've had problems even leaving my basement garage in the city as a result. I find that it is often best to use second gear when encountering lower temperatures and/or rainy conditions as it's easier to modulate both throttle and clutch to avoid wheelspin.

KresoF1:

BTW, Dunlops offer better wet traction then Michelins and therefor are the first choice for UK market(AFAIK all 991 GT3 for UK will get Dunlops)

I was (reliably?) informed by Michelin that 80-90% of UK GT3s will come on the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's rather than the Dunlop equivalent.

CGX car nut:

Trundle_GT3:

CGX car nut:

reginos:

Boxster Coupe GTS:

reginos:

Boxster Coupe GTS:

Apparently, the Michelin Pilot Super Sport will be available "N rated" in various 911 sizes before too long, following the recent announcement of the Michelin Pilot Super Sport "N0" certified tyre for the Carrera GT... 

Do you know whether this will apply to 997 models?

Given that the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyre was developed as the replacement for the Michelin Pilot Sport 2, there should be plenty of sizes to fit earlier generation 911 models that have been running on Pilot Sport 2 tyres.

OPCs have been expecting the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres to be available "N rated" for some time now...

 

Thank you for the info

What I find interesting is Michelin has the Pilot Super Sport on sale since last year in the United States, and with more comprehensive sizing than found on the linked press release.  

They had NO MPSS "N" rated tires for sale in the US only  generics without  "N"rating.

The attached press release inferred that the MPSS was available in the EU in limited sizes, compared to the NA market.  This is different than the N rating issue.

The range of tyre sizes now available for the Michelin Pilot Super Sport in Europe/UK is quite considerable...

Michelin Pilot Super Sport -- List of Tyre Sizes

...with, at this point in time, the following MPSS tyres listed as "N rated" (N0) approved by Porsche...

• 255 40 R 20 101 ZR(Y) XL | N0
• 265 35 R 19 98 ZR(Y) XL | N0
• 295 35 R 20 105 ZR(Y) XL | N0
• 335 30 R 20 108 ZR(Y) XL | N0

...hopefully more 911 sizes of the MPSS will be available soon approved as "N rated" by Porsche! 

throt:

Thanks, guys.

Think I maybe worrying too much. The sales representive stated that the 991GT3 was not as harsh as the 997 with -20 but that judgement will surely be with the 997GT3 as only a few have driven the 991GT3. I have not gone with the club sport, I chose the adaptive seats along with some other goodies, including the front lift. Exterior is white. I suppose for me it just feels funny buying without trying.

Thanks again.....

Good choice! It feels indeed very nice, just a decision made on instinct and ofcourse some info 

You might want to consider a front lift system for more 'friendly' daily use. 

- HS (Belgium)  -  '14 Porsche 991 GT3 (oct build) - '06 BMW 335I Coupe  

DaveC:

A "daily driver" IMHO requires versatility for a variety of purposes that vary widely from individual to individual.  These tasks may include grocery shopping, picking up laundry, takeout food at the end of the day, fetching children from whatever and whenever, in addition to the daily drive to and from work.  IMHO, those tasks are not what I would choose to relegate to any Porsche sports car, let alone a GT3, which I believe was conceived for less mundane purposes. All my Porsches have been weekend only cars, with the only requirement being that I can take my wife for an evening drive or to dinner in reasonable comfort. A friend had a 996 GT3 which, IMHO, could not even serve the miminal purpose of an evening drive with the wife as it was simply and exclusively focused on track performance--stiff suspension and steering/braking/shifting that required truly undivided attention and effort.  The 997 GT3 was more suited to minimal off track duties and I suspect the 991 GT3 will be similar, but they are not grocery getters or honey do list vehicles, again IMHO.  Fair weather, light traffic, and a few grins and thrills is the sum total of my expectations for the car. By the way, I do not intend to track the car beyond a few sessions with Orbit Racing at our local venue. To paraphrase Sir Edmund Hilary, why own one? Because I can and choose to.

Could not have said it any better having owned the prior versions of the GT3.  I tried to explain this on another forum but I'm not sure people 'get it'. 

991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff

PBS2010:

My current Porsche has PCCBs and the one before did not.  I immediately noticed the difference in terms of brake feel and performance.  I was really amazed with the PCCBs and will not have anything else.  However, with time and wear and a few track sessions, the supersharp initial brake bite goes off.

Once the super bite wears off as a result of use and track work, do the PCCB's than brake similar to steel brakes? I am conflicted as to whether to order them for the GT3.  

GTlover:

 

Im amazed how you can know the times already before they are even published...

 

Because I know someone who works for SA...

nberry:

PBS2010:

My current Porsche has PCCBs and the one before did not.  I immediately noticed the difference in terms of brake feel and performance.  I was really amazed with the PCCBs and will not have anything else.  However, with time and wear and a few track sessions, the supersharp initial brake bite goes off.

Once the super bite wears off as a result of use and track work, do the PCCB's than brake similar to steel brakes? I am conflicted as to whether to order them for the GT3.  

 Nick , the PCCB always have a better "top end" bite (feel while slightly applying) compared to the steel - but trust me in saying that there is NOTHING wrong with the steel ones. For me it's just a option for those who want less unsprung weight (real benefit) and don't care about costs. Most frequent track-users have steel and are perfectly happy with it. You're tires will blow first before even the steel give up (correct track brake fluid is more the issue) So safe the money - Porsche brakes are amazing in any case !