Crown

RC:

I cannot afford it or I track race my car very often. If none of these points applies to you, go for it, you won't regret it.

This is a serious issue, admittedly.

If the cost was theoretically, 1800 EUR instead of 8500 EUR many more buyers would opt for them.

Another reason is that the standard system is top class.

--

"Form follows function"

I would bet that Christian would not have ordered ceramics on his 991TTS if they were an option.

I have driven both and it is difficult to tell the difference. The ceramic bite more easily.

RC:

Ziggy:

That piece reminds me of Kreso's post relaying what his Porsche source is saying, which is that this MT obsession is solely driven by U.S. and U.K. Press.  This is nothing more than a "loud minority".

Mostly US I think. I am in the US right now and got in an argument with a few guys at the pool about manual vs. PDK (they saw a Porsche t-shirt I was wearing and outed themselves as Porsche nuts). In my very passionate conversation with them (mostly in their 20s and 30s), one argument came up over and over again..."only good drivers can drive stick". Spoiler alert, guys...in Europe, every girl and old woman can drive stick.  This is nothing special, unless you live in a country where most cars have auto transmissions and people just never learned to drive stick. So if people think they are special because they know how to drive stick...they're not. It is difficult to get this out of the heads of people but since I understand the background and the different (car) life in the US, I am not surprised at all. It is a mentality think, same as young people from allover the US coming to Vegas, wearing short skirts (women) they can barely move in and getting drunk until they throw up. Traditions. 

Please don't get me wrong, I am not trying to bash the US here, we have our own cadavers in the closet in Europe but I really think this is a mentality thing. Porsche is doing the right thing by NOT giving in to the manual crowd because if they need to compromise over and over again, they cannot actually build the cars they want to build. For those who still want manual, there are other options. Sadly not from Porsche, at least not newer models.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Sorry guys but RC is right here. Here in Europe it was always considered to be 'more special' if you have an automatic gearbox.

Every car that came out except for a BMW 7 series or a Mercedes S class came standard with a stick. And only from models around 2000's. Before that, they were standard with a stick.

My 68 year old mother can drive stick and my grandmother too! 

This changes the perspective of how you think of a automated gearbox IMHO. 

Personally I think it's quite logical Porsche ha chosen the new GT3 has PDK only.  Because they are in a competitive business. They have to keep up(or be ahead of) the competition. The company always made a car which was the quickest they could make it in that moment of time. Why wouldn't they do it this time? Technology let's them. 

- HS (Belgium)  -  '14 Porsche 991 GT3 (oct build) - '06 BMW 335I Coupe  

There is a big differennce between beeing able to drive a stick and beeing able to drive it properly...everyone can sing also but not all can do it well

lor:

There is a big differennce between beeing able to drive a stick and beeing able to drive it properly...everyone can sing also but not all can do it well

Totally agree. It's something totally different and adds more dimension to the driving experience. BUT it unfortunately is 'slower' these days. 

Now I am driving a manual transmission BMW 335i as a daily. I like it too. But can't wait until the GT3 arrives. For me it's the best of both worlds. Automatic transmission for most of the daily driving and the paddles if I want to AND it is faster. 

- HS (Belgium)  -  '14 Porsche 991 GT3 (oct build) - '06 BMW 335I Coupe  

lor:

There is a big differennce between beeing able to drive a stick and beeing able to drive it properly...everyone can sing also but not all can do it well

Correct, many cannot drive a manual properly and that is the challenge that a few of us enjoy.  Additionally, a manual adds another dimension of interaction with the automobile that is missing in the automated gearboxes.  It is equivalent to the difference of painting with a brush and oils versus using a paint program on your iPad.  It is faster to paint on the iPad, yet the technical mastery is lacking.  

Another aspect is the continual increase in "technology" for the sake of technology on the GT3.  This model variant started with the less is more ethos but has changing into a vehicle employing too much technology in the hopes of chasing Nissan's GT-R.

KresoF1:

New PCCBs are unfortunately not any lighter then standard brakes. In fact I heard that they are marginally heavier...

If they are heavier, this only confirms my opinion that they are very serious brakes and have much better track performance than the steels.  Steel is still way more dense than carbon-ceramic, so here we have much more rotor material - both in diameter and thickness (and maybe larger calipers too?).  Might be the first PCCB's to really stand up to the demands of the track.

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

CGX car nut:

 

Correct, many cannot drive a manual properly and that is the challenge that a few of us enjoy.  Additionally, a manual adds another dimension of interaction with the automobile that is missing in the automated gearboxes.  It is equivalent to the difference of painting with a brush and oils versus using a paint program on your iPad.  It is faster to paint on the iPad, yet the technical mastery is lacking.  

Another aspect is the continual increase in "technology" for the sake of technology on the GT3.  This model variant started with the less is more ethos but has changing into a vehicle employing too much technology in the hopes of chasing Nissan's GT-R.

On the other side of the argument, from the eyes of Porsche, taking away the manual is continuing the tradition of less is more. Without the extra action of the manual transmission, the car can be that much faster and purer as a racer.

For racers, perfecting the heel and toe is not a priority, it's a unnecessary function of yester-year technology. Their goal is to hitting the perfect apex, perfecting the best racing line, perfecting the best braking spot. Without the distraction of manually shifting, they can focus more on the priority, which is finding and holding the best possible racing line. 

CGX car nut:

Another aspect is the continual increase in "technology" for the sake of technology on the GT3.  This model variant started with the less is more ethos but has changing into a vehicle employing too much technology in the hopes of chasing Nissan's GT-R.

All the new technology in the GT3 serves a purpose, from what I gather. Nothing is superfluous or is offered per se.

The two major breakthroughs on the GT3  are the PDK-S making the car very responsive and hence faster and the 4WS making the car nimbler handling at lower speeds and rock steady at very high speeds, as befits a super sportscar. 

I am trying to be objective with Porsche in spite of my attachment to the marque, but honestly with the new GT3, Herr Preuninger's people have excelled themselves. 

"Form follows function"

reginos:

CGX car nut:

Another aspect is the continual increase in "technology" for the sake of technology on the GT3.  This model variant started with the less is more ethos but has changing into a vehicle employing too much technology in the hopes of chasing Nissan's GT-R.

All the new technology in the GT3 serves a purpose, from what I gather. Nothing is superfluous or is offered per se.

The two major breakthroughs on the GT3  are the PDK-S making the car very responsive and hence faster and the 4WS making the car nimbler handling at lower speeds and rock steady at very high speeds, as befits a super sportscar. 

I am trying to be objective with Porsche in spite of my attachment to the marque, but honestly with the new GT3, Herr Preuninger's people have excelled themselves. 

 

Let's wait a couple of years to determine if the technology works, and continues to work, as advertised.  

Complexity, and consequently, increased weight has historical taken a toll on reliability on track-type cars.  

If everyone waited 2-3 years after a car was launched to by it there would be no one buying new cars. Everyone would be buying used. Ive been doing that for 20 years and its still no guarantee of reliability Im afraid.

Im not sure 70-80 lbs will make any material difference. 

This reliability issue I think may be a more US centric one. Ive never been concerned about the reliability of my P cars but then Ive been a used car buyer until now. The warranty will cover any small stuff, then theres the factory recalls and to be perfectly honest the 9A1 engine is so far looking a whole lot more reliable than the earlier M96 engine.

The reliability issue Im sure isnt one that concerns too many ROW new 991 GT3 owners on this board (unless Im mistaken)

macca993:

If everyone waited 2-3 years after a car was launched to by it there would be no one buying new cars. Everyone would be buying used. Ive been doing that for 20 years and its still no guarantee of reliability Im afraid.

Im not sure 70-80 lbs will make any material difference. 

This reliability issue I think may be a more US centric one. Ive never been concerned about the reliability of my P cars but then Ive been a used car buyer until now. The warranty will cover any small stuff, then theres the factory recalls and to be perfectly honest the 9A1 engine is so far looking a whole lot more reliable than the earlier M96 engine.

The reliability issue Im sure isnt one that concerns too many ROW new 991 GT3 owners on this board (unless Im mistaken)

The comment is less on waiting to purchase and more related to reliability and maintenance issues after a few years of use, especially with some track days.  Light and simple is always more desirable. 

Interesting article on another forum.

It seems the 991 GT3 may infact be lighter than the legendary "lightweight" 4.0RS in the same trim. EVO actually weighted the two cars they used for a comparison in their October Edition. The 4.0RS was touted at the factory as being 1360kg but this omitted any options including air conditioning. The car in the article also had front lift which is known to be worth around 25-30lb. The 991 GT3 sisnt have the front lift system. Therefore when you compare the two cars they are pretty much the same weight!

nberry:

I would bet that Christian would not have ordered ceramics on his 991TTS if they were an option.

I have driven both and it is difficult to tell the difference. The ceramic bite more easily.

I have likewise driven both, and agree re the additiional bite, but concluded that this instant bite, and incredible feel, of the PCCB brakes is IMO quite a different experience to thesteel brakes.  My wife (more prone to hard driving often than me) was even more smitten  than me by the ceramic brakes on the GT3 we tested, and concluded that if we ever did a factory order of any 911, PCCB would be on it - she still talks about those brakes 2 years after our test drive. 

2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S

4trac:

nberry:

I would bet that Christian would not have ordered ceramics on his 991TTS if they were an option.

I have driven both and it is difficult to tell the difference. The ceramic bite more easily.

I have likewise driven both, and agree re the additiional bite, but concluded that this instant bite, and incredible feel, of the PCCB brakes is IMO quite a different experience to thesteel brakes.  My wife (more prone to hard driving often than me) was even more smitten  than me by the ceramic brakes on the GT3 we tested, and concluded that if we ever did a factory order of any 911, PCCB would be on it - she still talks about those brakes 2 years after our test drive. 

Your wife must not be aware of replacement cost of the PCCB's

She doesnt need to - 4trac is paying

Unless they get rid of the car before the brakes give up

EVO

what a car !

Thanks BiTurbo for the link! 

Hostely I was disappointed when I watched it. Unfortunately I find it quite a boring review from EVO IMHO   Especially compared to all the more exciting movies we have seen yet.   12 mins without any thrills. 

Hope for better reviews. Still love this wonderful car. 

Is it true that the sports exhaust was turned off in the movie? I have not seen the light on the button. 

- HS (Belgium)  -  '14 Porsche 991 GT3 (oct build) - '06 BMW 335I Coupe  

TopGear trailer of the 991 GT3

http://bcove.me/brita0z7

- HS (Belgium)  -  '14 Porsche 991 GT3 (oct build) - '06 BMW 335I Coupe  

First "real" test with measurements is in tomorrows AMS.

Also, expect Sport Auto Supertest of both 991 GT3 and 991 Turbo S this year.

KresoF1:

First "real" test with measurements is in tomorrows AMS.

Also, expect Sport Auto Supertest of both 991 GT3 and 991 Turbo S this year.

- HS (Belgium)  -  '14 Porsche 991 GT3 (oct build) - '06 BMW 335I Coupe  

991 GT3:

Thanks BiTurbo for the link! 

Hostely I was disappointed when I watched it. Unfortunately I find it quite a boring review from EVO IMHO   Especially compared to all the more exciting movies we have seen yet.   12 mins without any thrills. 

Hope for better reviews. Still love this wonderful car. 

Wow - how could you want more than this from a review (as opposed to a drifting show)???  This was a superb review from Jethro B., who like only a few can, balances the emotional and the technical aspects of performance cars like this.  And bravo for bringing up the really interesting comparisons that many buyers would be interested in, like the 997 GT3, the McLaren on track, and he was even brave enough to reference the GT-R (seeing the irony that Porsche has made a car that could be accused of computer-game technocracy like the GT-R has been labelled with).  IMO if someone can't decide on a GT3 purchase after seeing this, this is not their car. 

2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S

KresoF1:

First "real" test with measurements is in tomorrows AMS.

Also, expect Sport Auto Supertest of both 991 GT3 and 991 Turbo S this year.

Thanks to Frankfurt Airport...here are the official testresults from auto motor sport:

0-100 km/h = 3.6s

0-200 km/h = 12.1s

315 km/h 

400m = 11.6s (197 km/h)

Thanks.

I also got the issue few mins ago. Despite very positive test overall I am dissapointed that this example(Guards Red) failed to achieve factory numbers.

kashmir:

KresoF1:

First "real" test with measurements is in tomorrows AMS.

Also, expect Sport Auto Supertest of both 991 GT3 and 991 Turbo S this year.

Thanks to Frankfurt Airport...here are the official testresults from auto motor sport:

0-100 km/h = 3.6s

0-200 km/h = 12.1s

315 km/h 

400m = 11.6s (197 km/h)

With or without passenger / excess luggage ? cause that 12.1 doesn't sound quiet right (11.4s factory time)

With 2 persons onboard and full of fluids.

acrobat:

With 2 persons onboard and full of fluids.

I think having full fluids is a good idea, but why a passenger?

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Grant:

acrobat:

With 2 persons onboard and full of fluids.

I think having full fluids is a good idea, but why a passenger?

I thought he was kidding. If not, they might as well have put a two hundred pound anvil in the boot.

It is a AMS policy to have two persons in the car.

In their website they state that their measurements can deviate up to 30% compared to factory claims. They also state that manufacturers often pre-heat tyres, use light  weight drivers, test on grippy asphalt, measure with little fuel etc. to arrive at favourable  figures. 

"Form follows function"