Crown

dxpetrov:

yeah, much more successful than the quattroporte, which looks like an infiniti....

Very much agree about the Quattroporte looking like an Infiniti product.  I live near a Maserati dealership and often mistake that car for a new Nissan.

I also think they look a bit (both the Quattroporte and the Ghibli) like an Infiniti . Went to the Maserati dealer to see in real life the Quattroporte and  did not like it. It lost all the sporty elegance , balanced proportions of the previous model. This does not look like something coming out from the hands of a famed Italian designer. As for the Ghibli I expect it to be a distinctive proposition in the premium sedan segment . I have hard time to recognize a 3 series Bmw from a 5 series Bmw  , and Audi A4 from and Audi A6 , rather boring and pushing the understatement to the extreme.The A7 looks already dated. Yes very good cars (and I drive an Audi) but nothing really special or memorable, which on the other hand this Ghibli could be (provided it delivers on reliability).

911 Club Coupe, 993 4S Riviera Blau, 12' Audi S4 Avant

m4ever:

I also think they look a bit (both the Quattroporte and the Ghibli) like an Infiniti . Went to the Maserati dealer to see in real life the Quattroporte and  did not like it. It lost all the sporty elegance , balanced proportions of the previous model. This does not look like something coming out from the hands of a famed Italian designer. As for the Ghibli I expect it to be a distinctive proposition in the premium sedan segment . I have hard time to recognize a 3 series Bmw from a 5 series Bmw  , and Audi A4 from and Audi A6 , rather boring and pushing the understatement to the extreme.The A7 looks already dated. Yes very good cars (and I drive an Audi) but nothing really special or memorable, which on the other hand this Ghibli could be (provided it delivers on reliability).

Maserati never attracted me and I really tried hard to like it (a friend owns a dealership over here) but I just couldn't warm up with it. The GT MC Stradale sounded extremely nice and felt OK but still, performance was behind a Carrera S and the Maserati is more expensive. In my opinion, Maserati cars are too expensive to have a huge success, especially with that new, somewhat japanese, design. I think Maserati designers tried too hard to please a larger crowd and they messed it up. If Maserati wants to appeal to a broader customer group, they need to lower their prices.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC , totally agree. They are overpriced for what they deliver in terms of performance and also they depreciate significantly (at par with Jaguars I would say) . 

If they price it correctly ,the Ghibli might steal few customers from the German premium producers . I am looking forward to see it in real life.  From the photos I find it moderately attractive,  the wheels though,  look like an aftermarket addition. But still I cannot see myself buying a Maserati...

911 Club Coupe, 993 4S Riviera Blau, 12' Audi S4 Avant

Maserati in the US is for people who want something different than Audi/BMW/Mercedes that you see every street corner. So it is priced right. One issue is the steep resale price and the service priced the same as a Ferrari service. Funny how people care more about their service bill than the original sticker price.

SciFrog:

Maserati in the US is for people who want something different than Audi/BMW/Mercedes that you see every street corner. So it is priced right. One issue is the steep resale price and the service priced the same as a Ferrari service. Funny how people care more about their service bill than the original sticker price.

Every time I am in Miami, I see tons of Maserati (especially the GT seems to be popular). Probably more Maserati in a day than I see the whole year in Germany.  I am sorry, I don't get it, maybe people want to be different but then why not get a Ferrari? I can also imagine that the new F-type could appeal to some Floridians but I don't get the Maserati thing, at all.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

I don't get it, maybe people want to be different but then why not get a Ferrari?

Maserati is a poor man's Ferrari ...

Exactly. For US road performance of the Maserati is good enough. And it is quite cheaper than Ferrari.

Oh, oh...I didn't realize that but I guess it isn't much different in Europe. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

I have to agree that the new quattroporte have lost all of the "charme"the old one had, which was so elegant and sporty that only Pininfarina can design. we all know maserati can't keep up with the germans in term of performance, but it is soo different that makes it so special, if you think only performance and price you can only choose a 911, but since you care about styiling, and all the emotions well, there you come to an other irrational way of thinking, and there ,is where maserati is stronger than the germans. otherwise, why should , Jaguar , aston martin, and many other sell when they are so much worse than the germans???, its only have to do with passion and style. I guess many that are spending $ in nice cars maybe also like to look at them? many times when a old quattroporte was parked close to a panamera there was no doubt what people liked most. While the new sedans of maserati is a complete style error trying to catch more clients from normal brands, they will probably make a mistake, or be as porsche that are doing everything to sell all kind of cars, the economics says that porsche is right doing all kind of cars, but as a porsche fan, well I have to think that only thanks to panamera and cayenne and macan...there will still be a 911 that could have died without all the other vw/porches

993 c2

The Italian manufacturers need to rediscover that great styling sells cars. The new QP and Ghibli are huge disappointments compared to the previous QP and the Gran Turismo which are amongst the best work from Pininfarina over the past 10 years. Bland styling does not stand out and definitely will not make buyers stampede to showrooms.

Fiat's decision to develop their own in-house studio, Centro Stile, has produced some less than stellar results. I read a comment in Autocar magazine last week attributed to an Alfa designer who said they want their upcoming spider collaboration with Mazda to have a family resemblance to the 4C and not to look like Pininfarina's beautiful Duettotanta concept. The 4C is hardly pretty whilst the Pininfarina car was timelessly elegant. It seems they have already forgotten the lesson that Paulo Cantarella taught them in the mid 90's that being bold and brave with styling will yield results in terms of sales. He managed to push through a whole range of different cars using the same underpinnings that had distinctive and individual styling which all sold in much better numbers than their bland predecessors.

This whole obsession car manufacturers have with the "family resemblance" styling is just nonsense. It is producing sausage like clones across vast model ranges - Audi being the worst offender to date. I don't want a sports car that has similar styling elements to an SUV and vice versa. Please gives us back stand alone styling for individual cars and stop producing identikit clones. Top Gear hit the nail on the head on Sunday night when reviewing small cross over SUV's. They rightly, IMHO, said that they all look the same and are boring.

You are right!!!!, I cannot recon an A1, A2, A3 A4 A5 A6 A7 A8, the front is the same in all of them!!!! When on the autostrada, you should know when to move to let someone pass, so driving at 180 sometimes you see an audi logo in the rear mirror just at 2 cm from your rear bumper and you move to the right immagine a A8......then you discover it is a A1 trying to pass you at 181!!!! hahah so fun.......

993 c2

The R8 is a successful design for a junior supercar and the TT a very good looking small coupe.

I'd rather see good looking cars and pleasant designs resembling each other (vide Audi), than ugly cars that try to be differentiated (Mercedes).

"Form follows function"

ISUK:

This whole obsession car manufacturers have with the "family resemblance" styling is just nonsense. It is producing sausage like clones across vast model ranges - Audi being the worst offender to date. I don't want a sports car that has similar styling elements to an SUV and vice versa. Please gives us back stand alone styling for individual cars and stop producing identikit clones. 

+ 1 to that   It is becoming ridiculous !! Why do they all have to look the same in the family ??? To me it is more off putting then pushing me to buy . Do they really think it make more sales ???

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

This seems to be a decision coming from the upper rank of management, same goes to the sometimes really boring CI requirements for dealerships. I always loved Porsche dealerships for their "personality" but now they started to look all the same. Oh boy... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

I completely agree regarding the CI dealerships. This trend was started by the likes of MacDonalds but even they now realise that customers have become tired of this approach and so have had a rethink of how they present their outlets in different cities to make them more individual and appealing.

At some point in the future some marketing genius will decide that the "glass palace" showroom is no longer a good idea as every brand has copied it at huge expense. Perhaps then we'll get back to some more creative and individual designs instead of the US style edge of town, multi franchise, look alike showrooms that are all grouped together in the same area. I live in hope.......

I want a personal touch, no matter if the dealership looks old or new. The same look for all dealerships is a huge mistake in my opinion. It may work for a while but when people get bored... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Warning - completely of topic (Maserati): Do you know the Austrian supermarkets „mpreis“? Very interesting concept. Each market is built in an individual way, however the brand experience is always the same, always the “mpreis”-feeling. I like this concept much more than the millions very similar looking shops of other big brand stores.

ISUK:

The Italian manufacturers need to rediscover that great styling sells cars. The new QP and Ghibli are huge disappointments compared to the previous QP and the Gran Turismo which are amongst the best work from Pininfarina over the past 10 years. Bland styling does not stand out and definitely will not make buyers stampede to showrooms.

Fiat's decision to develop their own in-house studio, Centro Stile, has produced some less than stellar results. I read a comment in Autocar magazine last week attributed to an Alfa designer who said they want their upcoming spider collaboration with Mazda to have a family resemblance to the 4C and not to look like Pininfarina's beautiful Duettotanta concept. The 4C is hardly pretty whilst the Pininfarina car was timelessly elegant. It seems they have already forgotten the lesson that Paulo Cantarella taught them in the mid 90's that being bold and brave with styling will yield results in terms of sales. He managed to push through a whole range of different cars using the same underpinnings that had distinctive and individual styling which all sold in much better numbers than their bland predecessors.

This whole obsession car manufacturers have with the "family resemblance" styling is just nonsense. It is producing sausage like clones across vast model ranges - Audi being the worst offender to date. I don't want a sports car that has similar styling elements to an SUV and vice versa. Please gives us back stand alone styling for individual cars and stop producing identikit clones. Top Gear hit the nail on the head on Sunday night when reviewing small cross over SUV's. They rightly, IMHO, said that they all look the same and are boring.

Very, very well said.

Bland design of their current cars will get back at the manufacturers within a few years.

BTW, good to see you back here, Iain, it's been a while...

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

So the big question is: Why do almost all (larger) companies enforce a strict CI? I get it, maybe, with McDonald's but a Porsche? I would actually do the contrary.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

I think the whole CI thing has been pushed by marketing people as being the single largest differentiator now that quality and reliability are common place amongst most manufacturers and have convinced corporate boards this is the only way to sell their product nowadays. With VW taking over so many brands and just re-clothing and re-badging the same basic underpinnings they have bought into this nonsense on CI big time. The marketers are also coming up with ever more ridiculous descriptive terms. Who for example came up with the nonsense term "near premium"?? Either a brand is premium or it isn't in my book. Sack the marketers, bring in some enthusiastic engineers and bring back the great Italian design houses who really understood how to differentiate designs not just by brand but also by country of origin.

If the car guys don't make a come back at board level and inject some passion and design flair back into their products then these companies will risk sliding into becoming no more than automotive white goods. Seat is a prime example of this. Every one of their current offerings is a bland, confused rehash of other styles within the VW group. There is no latin Spanish flair evident in any of them and as a result sales are less than brilliant. If any VW marketing people read this website then please stop thinking that putting slightly different shaped headlights and grilles on essentially the same bodies (albeit with slight variations on side crease lines etc) are good enough to fool buyers into thinking Seats are different to Skodas or Audis etc.

It amazes me that car manufacturers are so slow to identify changing customer trends and are so timid with their designs, colours, interior trims etc as a result. In most consumables now fashion and good design sells, think clothes, mobile phones, tablets, furniture etc yet most car designs wilfully seem to ignore this. Look how long it has taken other manufacturers to wake up to the customisation success of the MINI. They had that market to themselves for the best part of 8 years!

ISUK, you sound very pessimistic, but I think the car enthusiast is enjoying the best, safest and most entertaining period in history with a great choice of excellent vehicles for all pockets.

I drive a VW Polo daily for which I paid some 15.000 EUR and it is as good if not better than the W203 Mercedes 230K I owned less than 10 years ago that costed 3 times as much. VW's standard of engineering is top, and not only by considering the price level of their cars.  What is there to complain about?

My Carrera S is a superb piece of engineering and a fantastic drive at a lower real cost than the antiquated 993 Turbo was selling in its prime. Porsche have made great engineering progress and they have devised a  good marketing concept in order  to sell so many cars. And a Cayman S is faster  and better handling than most supercars of the 90s.

SEAT is an example of brand snobbery. Excellent VW hardware but no brand acceptance. Perhaps it is a brand that needs more marketing than engineering. To me, a SEAT Leon is a better proposition than the forgettable M-B  A class  or B class, from the design, pricing and technology point of view. But the Star has an allure that an obscure Spanish brand lacks.

The MINI? We own a Cooper previous generation but I cannot find anything to like about it. But my daughter loves it , so that she promised herself to keep it forever!  That iit exists however, shows the great choice and variety even younger, fashion conscious motorists are enjoying these days.

Lots of variety at a wide range of prices. The automobile scene is a consumer's dream IMO.

--

"Form follows function"

I actually think the latest Seat Leon is very refreshingly styled on the outside, however the interior is a mess IMO. To me the styling of the VW Golf is the most boring on the planet, whoever styled it must have learnt his craft styling white goods such as washing machines and refrigerators.

Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive

The Golf  IS a white good. Used by all types of people of all income groups in all countries for what the automobile is primarily intended. Safe, efficient and affordable transport of people, and goods. Look at the success of the commercial Golf models, too.

IMO this is the recipe for success of the honest and unpretentious Golf.

Moreover, the shape may be unimaginative but it has a timelessness derived from its utility not its (absent) style. Like the appeal of a useful tool. The GTI and the R models add cross country speed to the other ingredients.

If I was forced to one car for the rest of my life, it would have been a Golf

--

"Form follows function"

+1

reginos

If I was forced to one car for the rest of my life, it would have been a Golf

--

"Form follows function"

That's why I bought one, except it is spelt "Octavia" 

Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive

dreamcar:

I actually think the latest Seat Leon is very refreshingly styled on the outside, however the interior is a mess IMO. To me the styling of the VW Golf is the most boring on the planet, whoever styled it must have learnt his craft styling white goods such as washing machines and refrigerators.

+1

dreamcar:

reginos

If I was forced to one car for the rest of my life, it would have been a Golf

--

"Form follows function"

That's why I bought one, except it is spelt "Octavia" 

What's in a name?

"Form follows function"

reginos:

dreamcar:

reginos

If I was forced to one car for the rest of my life, it would have been a Golf

--

"Form follows function"

That's why I bought one, except it is spelt "Octavia" 

What's in a name?

Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive

RC:

m4ever:

I also think they look a bit (both the Quattroporte and the Ghibli) like an Infiniti . Went to the Maserati dealer to see in real life the Quattroporte and  did not like it. It lost all the sporty elegance , balanced proportions of the previous model. This does not look like something coming out from the hands of a famed Italian designer. As for the Ghibli I expect it to be a distinctive proposition in the premium sedan segment . I have hard time to recognize a 3 series Bmw from a 5 series Bmw  , and Audi A4 from and Audi A6 , rather boring and pushing the understatement to the extreme.The A7 looks already dated. Yes very good cars (and I drive an Audi) but nothing really special or memorable, which on the other hand this Ghibli could be (provided it delivers on reliability).

Maserati never attracted me and I really tried hard to like it (a friend owns a dealership over here) but I just couldn't warm up with it. The GT MC Stradale sounded extremely nice and felt OK but still, performance was behind a Carrera S and the Maserati is more expensive. In my opinion, Maserati cars are too expensive to have a huge success, especially with that new, somewhat japanese, design. I think Maserati designers tried too hard to please a larger crowd and they messed it up. If Maserati wants to appeal to a broader customer group, they need to lower their prices.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Sorry, Christian. The MC Stradale, you drove two years ago, was as fast as a 997 GTS on track (Hockenheim). For such a huge and heavy car (cerb wheight 1845 kg) a good job. 

On the other side the new 4-Seater MC Stradale offers a quite good performance for a sportier GT and you have a car for 4 and not 2+ and at least you habe a trunk for luggage! This is the main difference. I know, whst you are expecting, if you buy a sports car. Masersti cannot offer these things to you. You need a hell of car, AWD and a socially accepted car. But i have here a nearly new 991 4S, which was driven by a long term Porsche driver. The price of this 911 was exactly the same for a new GT Sport fully optioned. Porsche lift up their prices and the only thing Porsche is cheaper than a Maserati oder Aston Martin is the supported leasing im Germany.

i am sure we will meet again, when we introduce the new SUV.