Jul 8, 2013 5:51:57 PM
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Board: Porsche - 911 - 991 - GT2/GT3
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Jul 8, 2013 9:13:55 PM
- Boxster Coupe GTS
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Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)
Porsche 991 GT3 in white...
Porsche 991 GT3 in white -- Gallery Link
Porsche 991 GT3 in white -- Video Link
Jul 8, 2013 9:34:22 PM
- Boxster Coupe GTS
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Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)
2014 Porsche 911 GT3 First Drive...
From the September 2013 issue of Automobile Magazine -- Article by Georg Kacher
"With disbelief, we check out the white numerals on the black face of the tachometer and see that the red zone begins at 9000 rpm. Clearly, the 2014 Porsche 911 GT3 is not the kind of Porsche 911 that we have come to expect since the latest 991 iteration was first revealed at the 2011 Frankfurt auto show. This new GT3 engine not only puts out 475 hp, but it also screams like a racing engine while doing it.
The chrome-trimmed buttons on the center console invite us to explore this 911’s new vocabulary. At the top left, we find race mode for the seven-speed dual-clutch automatic transmission, and below it lies the control for calibrating the action of the adaptive dampers. Stab the ESC OFF button, and the stability control relaxes enough to permit small gestures of tail-out motoring as you accelerate out of slow corners. Engage ESC+TC OFF and you’ll be permitted full-speed wide-screen slides. There’s a switch to let the engine sing louder through the exhaust for more street music and another one that raises the ride height of the front suspension so you can clear curbs, speed bumps, and the odd groundhog carcass.
We are ready for the Nürburgring Nordschleife, are we not? The Porsche engineers tell us that a lap of less than seven minutes and thirty seconds is possible. Instead, we decide to take this white whale to the mountainous highlands south of the Porsche facility in Stuttgart. Then it’s on to the Black Forest, where there is probably only one Swabian policeman to patrol the roads in the whole region.
When we open the lightweight door of the GT3 and squash into the undersize seat, we reflexively aim our left foot down at the empty hole where the clutch pedal would be and reach for the stubby shift lever that is no longer there. The seven-speed dual-clutch PDK -- for Porsche Doppelkupplung -- transmission has reached the hard-core 911 GT3. True, it was a manly achievement to master the previous six-speed manual gearbox, but the old three-pedal layout is a less efficient means of progress. The PDK is not only quicker than the manual, but it could also be argued that it is better.
The first thing you notice when you pull a cast-aluminum shift paddle toward the steering wheel is that it goes click, not clliiicck, because its travel is shorter than in other 911s. Not quick enough? Switch to race mode and brace yourself for shifts that come in less than 100 milliseconds and prove every bit as quick, hard, and spine-tingling as what you’d find in any Porsche 911 GT3 Cup racing car.
Sheer, quick-shifting power delivery alone might not be enough for some, so Porsche has engineered Paddle Neutral, a manually activated de-clutch mode triggered by pulling both shift paddles at the same time. The instant you release the paddles, power and torque are back at full strength. It’s very much a Formula 1–style technology.
Such a sudden release of power can lead to some frustration with stability control active. When you disable it entirely, though, the effect of the sudden clutch engagement is positively explosive. It’s a little bit like dipping the clutch to kick the rear of the car sideways, either during acceleration or while braking toward the apex of a corner. Paddle Neutral works as launch control as well; just rev the engine to 4500 rpm and take off.
We spend an hour playing with the new functions, but that’s not nearly enough to get the timing right for stunts with Paddle Neutral. The softest shift mode -- sport -- is just fine for everyday use, and this mode’s appeal is further enhanced by the fact that the GT3 leaves the factory with close-ratio gears and a numerically higher final-drive ratio than the regular Carrera’s. This means the car gets to 60 mph in 3.3 seconds and reaches its top speed of 195 mph in seventh gear, not sixth. Fact is, by the time our day with the GT3 is half over, we just let the adaptive automatic shift program do all the work, since it seems telepathic. It triggers shifts when you would do so, willingly changes down into first gear through slow esses, and stages a quick third-fourth-third sequence where conditions permit it. This transmission is pure magic.
The innovative rear-wheel steering that is standard on the new GT3 (and on the 2014 Turbo and Turbo S) makes one wonder how we could ever wax lyrical about stability and maneuverability until now. The days are over when you would have to fight the Porsche’s front end in slow corners and its rear end in fast corners as a flame of anxiety burned inside you. Thanks to four-wheel steering, the latest 911 GT3 is more confidence inspiring by a factor of 20/10 on our personal blood-pressure scale.
Below 31 mph, the GT3’s rear wheels move in the opposite direction of the front wheels, effectively making this 911 respond like a microcar. Porsche calculates that it’s like cutting 5.9 inches off the wheelbase (in fact, this GT3’s wheelbase is 4.0 inches longer than the 997 model’s). Above 50 mph, the rear wheels move in sync with the front wheels; the car responds like it has a wheelbase that’s 20 inches longer and can change lanes at 190 mph. That’s rather useful on German roads. At all velocities, the 911’s handling is now less nervous, less twitchy, and less dependent on keeping up the torque flow to the rear wheels. Message to GT3 hard-liners: don’t worry -- all the entertainment values are still there, proud and tall.
But it is fair to say that the 3153-pound GT3 has mellowed a bit. Some 14,145 GT3s of various 911 models have been built since 1999, and the GT3 has changed during that time to become more of a street car. Ironically, the very technology that makes the 2014 GT3 faster also makes it easier and better to drive. The adaptive suspension gives you a track setting, yet it has a more compliant sport setting than ever before. Torque vectoring sedates the bumblebees in the car’s rear end by supplementing the electronically controlled, mechanical limited-slip differential with electronic brake actuation, providing smoother and more predictable power delivery whether you drive fast or slow. Dynamic engine mounts permit a powerful, free-revving engine without buzzing the fillings in your teeth.
Consider a GT3 track-day special with a ride height 1.2 inches lower than before, specially calibrated electrically assisted steering, 15.0-inch brake rotors front and rear (carbon-ceramics are optional), stronger hubs, and forged-aluminum twenty-inch wheels that wear 245/35YR-20 front and 305/30YR-20 rear Dunlop Sport Maxx Race tires. Yet this precise, sure-footed track car is compliant and benign when driven at a leisurely pace.
Now we come to the engine, which dominates this car just as it should in a 911 GT3. This isn’t the old Hans Mezger–designed Porsche Motorsports engine; instead it’s the new Porsche Motorsports engine, based on the standard 991-type flat-six but with a bushel of new parts, including a special crankshaft, titanium connecting rods, forged pistons, special valve rockers, special valves, and even different direct injection. This normally aspirated 3.8-liter unit is a vocal, ferociously resolute powerplant that makes 475 hp at 8250 rpm and 324 lb-ft of torque at 6250 rpm.
Low-end torque is not one of the GT3 engine’s strengths, and it doesn’t run as smoothly as the 911 Carrera’s 9A1 engine. But the superfast throttle response hits you right at that place in your stomach where you can sense courage, respect, and determination. The engine has a different character at each step up the rev ladder to its 9000-rpm redline, and it simply loves to hurtle up and down that steep staircase. In fact, you keep bumping into the fuel cutoff at the redline because of the engine’s willingness to show off its explosive low-friction, free-revving energy.
After a long day, we begin to get a feel for the 911 GT3’s behavior at its limits. The higher-effort steering calibration is reassuring, and although it now turns into bends ludicrously quickly, cornering is no longer followed by that feeling of fluttering coattails at the rear of the car. This newly discovered run-on-rails cornering attitude comes in part from the wider track and the longer wheelbase that all 991-platform Porsche 911s enjoy, as well as the trick four-wheel steering.
While the winged wonder from Weissach might have lost some of its rough edges, it has acquired important new qualities, such as a supreme sense of balance, a higher level of tactility, and creamier behavior at the limit of adhesion. It might be heresy to say this of a Porsche 911 GT3, but it is easier to drive -- and we welcome that."
2014 Porsche 911 GT3 First Drive -- Automobile Article Link
Jul 8, 2013 10:29:34 PM
- frayed
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Jul 9, 2013 1:49:45 AM
- CGX car nut
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Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)
nberry:
In fact, you keep bumping into the fuel cutoff at the redline because of the engine’s willingness to show off its explosive low-friction, free-revving energy.
So there is protection against exceeding the rev limit.
A common feature with Bosch FI for at least fifteen years...of course, if one, with a manual, downshifts into a wrong gear, damage is done to the valve train.
Jul 9, 2013 9:45:22 AM
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Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)
CGX car nut:
nberry:
In fact, you keep bumping into the fuel cutoff at the redline because of the engine’s willingness to show off its explosive low-friction, free-revving energy.
So there is protection against exceeding the rev limit.
A common feature with Bosch FI for at least fifteen years...of course, if one, with a manual, downshifts into a wrong gear, damage is done to the valve train.
You won't believe how many times I actually witnessed that and every time, it "hurts" the same (I almost cry when I witness this stuff).
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Jul 9, 2013 2:44:47 PM
- Grant
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Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)
CGX car nut:
nberry:
In fact, you keep bumping into the fuel cutoff at the redline because of the engine’s willingness to show off its explosive low-friction, free-revving energy.
So there is protection against exceeding the rev limit.
A common feature with Bosch FI for at least fifteen years...of course, if one, with a manual, downshifts into a wrong gear, damage is done to the valve train.
Actually, all 911's have had some sort of feature like this for at least 44 years (it used to be done by mechanical means inside the distributor - when the weighted and sprung rotor spun fast enough, the centrifugal force of the rotor would make it lose contact with the cap, stopping the ignition). There was a separate rotor for each model of 911 (T, E, S, etc.) - each with its own redline.
--
73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550
Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)
The original reports on the 991GT3 were that the car could exceed rev limits. I found it puzzling that would allow that and the reason for me highlighting the remark.
FWIW, I am having serious reservations buying this car because of the time delay in getting it. I have second quarter 2014 allocation which means I probably will get the car a year from now if not later. Hell, I could buy a used one before then and at less than MSRP. Also, they may announce an updated version by then. Waiting a year for a car already in production is stupid.
Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)
nberry:
The original reports on the 991GT3 were that the car could exceed rev limits. I found it puzzling that would allow that and the reason for me highlighting the remark.
That would be puzzling and the only explanation I can see for that is that the protection circuit was too slow to respond to the mechanical situation (seems impossible with DFI - fuel delivery can be immediately ceased, even if enormous fuel pressure remains at the injector). I think this was just another case of erroneous reporting (like we have seen several times since the press has had access to the car).
And PDK will not allow "Money Shift" based on a computer algorithm (won't allow dowshift, if downshift would put the motor over 9k revs).
Can't imagine any situation that could confound this safeguard, outside of a computer or major hardware failure.
--
73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550
Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)
nberry:
The original reports on the 991GT3 were that the car could exceed rev limits. I found it puzzling that would allow that and the reason for me highlighting the remark.
FWIW, I am having serious reservations buying this car because of the time delay in getting it. I have second quarter 2014 allocation which means I probably will get the car a year from now if not later. Hell, I could buy a used one before then and at less than MSRP. Also, they may announce an updated version by then. Waiting a year for a car already in production is stupid.
You are getting nervous, don't you? 
I don't think that the new GT3 engine will be permitted to exceed rev limits, I actually think that Porsche built in some sort of downshift error prevention, which should be possible with PDK. I cannot guarantee that though, this is just something I heard (Porsche apparently had to deal with a couple of downshift damages on GT3 models in the past and their legal challenges with customers, who think that Porsche should pay for their stupidity... 
)
I am sorry to hear about the delay with your car, why don't you try a different dealer? The US is a big country... Also maybe there is someone who already has an early allocation and wants to get rid of it? 
There are always possibilities if you badly want something, you know that.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)
Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)
Christian, you're right. I could call around and may find something sooner. One individual has already done this and got a build date in December. Has never owned a Porsche before. He found one after calling 30 dealers. I am not sure I want to do that. I suspect other have done this as well and early builds are gone.
Porsche decided for what ever reason to put the US buyers last not only for allocations but build dates. As a result, many of us will be forced to wait more than a year to get a car. NO doubt Porsche will sell all the GT3 allocations. This would have been my fifth Porsche in less than 10 years. I was planning to turn it in within two years and get another Porsche.
Now I honestly do not know what I will do. I have been speaking with my dealer and they try to give me hope for earlier delivery based on their experience that people drop out. We shall see. My patience is limited.
I don't understand why Porsche doesn't build more GT3 and resolve the problem. FWIW, even Ferrari acknowledged that their clients should not have to wait one year to get a car. The GT3 is not a Ferrari.
Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)
nberry:
The original reports on the 991GT3 were that the car could exceed rev limits. I found it puzzling that would allow that and the reason for me highlighting the remark.
I think that was an issue of poor English translation by AP. Practically every car I've owned came equipped with a fuel/ignition cuttoff at redline to protect the engine. It would be insanity by any sports car manufacturer to remove the rev limiter.
nberry:
FWIW, I am having serious reservations buying this car because of the time delay in getting it. I have second quarter 2014 allocation which means I probably will get the car a year from now if not later. Hell, I could buy a used one before then and at less than MSRP. Also, they may announce an updated version by then. Waiting a year for a car already in production is stupid.
Certainly understand but based on the number of cars coming into the US Q4 and Q1, I highly doubt you'll get a used one below MSRP. I was number 2 on the list for the 997 GT3. I sold it after 6 months at MSRP, and I could haven't gotten 5k above but it was a quick sale to a local guy.
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991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff
Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)
nberry:
This would have been my fifth Porsche in less than 10 years. I was planning to turn it in within two years and get another Porsche.
I don't understand why Porsche doesn't build more GT3 and resolve the problem. FWIW, even Ferrari acknowledged that their clients should not have to wait one year to get a car. The GT3 is not a Ferrari.
Two year only? To get which one?
Jul 9, 2013 4:07:20 PM
- CGX car nut
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Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)
Grant:
CGX car nut:
nberry:
In fact, you keep bumping into the fuel cutoff at the redline because of the engine’s willingness to show off its explosive low-friction, free-revving energy.
So there is protection against exceeding the rev limit.
A common feature with Bosch FI for at least fifteen years...of course, if one, with a manual, downshifts into a wrong gear, damage is done to the valve train.
Actually, all 911's have had some sort of feature like this for at least 44 years (it used to be done by mechanical means inside the distributor - when the weighted and sprung rotor spun fast enough, the centrifugal force of the rotor would make it lose contact with the cap, stopping the ignition). There was a separate rotor for each model of 911 (T, E, S, etc.) - each with its own redline.
--
73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550
This was true with many cars with a mechanical distributor; however, mechanical governors tend to lag. Electronic fuel injection typically needs RPM as an input so simple control logic is readily implemented to prevent the engine from exceeding its maximum RPM. Note that the never exceed or maximum RPM is not always at the redline displayed on the tachometer.
Jul 9, 2013 4:50:51 PM
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Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)
CGX car nut:
Note that the never exceed or maximum RPM is not always at the redline displayed on the tachometer.
Right, it's usually about 200rpm higher, but I think in the case of the GT3, they really wanted to stretch for 9k and I think the redline here is a hard limit (fuel cutoff same as redline).
--
73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550
Jul 9, 2013 5:37:31 PM
- CGX car nut
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Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)
Grant:
CGX car nut:
Note that the never exceed or maximum RPM is not always at the redline displayed on the tachometer.
Right, it's usually about 200rpm higher, but I think in the case of the GT3, they really wanted to stretch for 9k and I think the redline here is a hard limit (fuel cutoff same as redline).
Very easy to implement through the ECU, DI, and the use of PDK. Valve float could become a significant issue at RPMs much higher than 9,000.
Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)
I am not sure I agree that the car will hold its price.This GT3 is different in that it is only PDK. Many after driving it for a while may find the PDK too placid and not sufficiently engaging enough for their taste.
I anticipate by next summer several with low mileage will be available at less than MSRP. Meanwhile, I sit and twiddle my thumbs hoping for an earlier build date.
Jul 9, 2013 7:01:15 PM
- CGX car nut
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Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)
nberry:
I am not sure I agree that the car will hold its price.This GT3 is different in that it is only PDK. Many after driving it for a while may find the PDK too placid and not sufficiently engaging enough for their taste.
I anticipate by next summer several with low mileage will be available at less than MSRP. Meanwhile, I sit and twiddle my thumbs hoping for an earlier build date.
Chief cheerleader vacillates on Porsche's PDK decision.
Jul 9, 2013 7:14:14 PM
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nberry
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Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)
CGX car nut:
nberry:
I am not sure I agree that the car will hold its price.This GT3 is different in that it is only PDK. Many after driving it for a while may find the PDK too placid and not sufficiently engaging enough for their taste.
I anticipate by next summer several with low mileage will be available at less than MSRP. Meanwhile, I sit and twiddle my thumbs hoping for an earlier build date.
Chief cheerleader vacillates on Porsche's PDK decision.
Has nothing to do with my view of PDK. There are several stated buyers of the 991GT3 who owned prior model GT3's and would have preferred MT. They will give PDK a chance and some will opt out after short period of time. By next summer there will several on the market at less than MSRP because by then the wait will be six months or so for a new one.
Jul 9, 2013 7:25:13 PM
- CGX car nut
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Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)
nberry:
CGX car nut:
nberry:
I am not sure I agree that the car will hold its price.This GT3 is different in that it is only PDK. Many after driving it for a while may find the PDK too placid and not sufficiently engaging enough for their taste.
I anticipate by next summer several with low mileage will be available at less than MSRP. Meanwhile, I sit and twiddle my thumbs hoping for an earlier build date.
Chief cheerleader vacillates on Porsche's PDK decision.
Has nothing to do with my view of PDK. There are several stated buyers of the 991GT3 who owned prior model GT3's and would have preferred MT. They will give PDK a chance and some will opt out after short period of time. By next summer there will several on the market at less than MSRP because by then the wait will be six months or so for a new one.
Again, as you have stated, Porsche may have made a poor decision regarding equipping the GT3 exclusively with PDK. One views these comments as vacillation and confirmation that PDK is not that rewarding of an experience for a few.
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