Crown

Rossi:

RC:

Spyderidol:

Never-the-less, it is ugly.

Not necessarily ugly, rather AMG-ish.

AMG-ish and ugly.

They actually look quite OK in reality but only in black. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

Rossi:

RC:

Spyderidol:

Never-the-less, it is ugly.

Not necessarily ugly, rather AMG-ish.

AMG-ish and ugly.

They actually look quite OK in reality but only in black. 

Different strokes for different folks...

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Will PDK make it on the next Cayenne or just the Macan ?

BiTurbo:

Will PDK make it on the next Cayenne or just the Macan ?

Next gen Cayenne? Likely. Cayenne facelift? Not likely.

The 8-speed auto tranny in the Cayenne works pretty well (well, forget about the manual mode though), so I don't see much need for PDK in the Cayenne.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

I do like to switch to manual mode most of the time and shift via the paddles otherwise I would've ordered the other steering wheel with buttons, which is kind of boring and I had the chance to use it on the loaner "Panamera S" and was a big disappointment which forced me to use the shifter instead.

BiTurbo:

I do like to switch to manual mode most of the time and shift via the paddles otherwise I would've ordered the other steering wheel with buttons, which is kind of boring and I had the chance to use it on the loaner "Panamera S" and was a big disappointment which forced me to use the shifter instead.

As much as I love the Cayenne GTS, it is still a truck and a truck feels best with an auto tranny. 

I also have to admit that the buttons on my Panamera Turbo S were so lame that I barely used the PTS in manual mode. Buttons...who the heck came up with this bad idea?  The paddles are much better but still not perfect. I thought that Porsche would revise the paddles for the next GT3, the 991 GT3 but they still look and feel the same. Bummer.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

IMO the spring loading of the Porsche paddles is rather soft and this doesn't give good enough feel. I'd like more resistance for a crispy feel.

I find the positioning OK and I like that in the Porsche you can also change gears using the stick, unlike most other cars. The +/- direction on the stick has been rectified on the GT3 but strangely on the Carrera it is still as old. What about the Turbo?

--

"Form follows function"

On Turbo/Turbo S the stick orientation is same as on Carrera/Carrera S, judging by the pictures.

As for the 991 GT3, I recall AP saying that they reworked the paddles response and feel, and I seem to remember CH reporting it in his review but I may be wrong (too lazy to rewatch it).  Maybe AP's statement can be found again in his interview with Jethro Bovington from EVO during the car's launch too.

reginos:

The +/- direction on the stick has been rectified on the GT3 but strangely on the Carrera it is still as old. What about the Turbo?

I'm afraid still the same (similar to Carrera). 

I don't get it...downshift...down(upwards) and upshift up(downwards). It is the natural way...why would Porsche do it differently on the Carrera and Turbo models? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Ziggy:

On Turbo/Turbo S the stick orientation is same as on Carrera/Carrera S, judging by the pictures.

As for the 991 GT3, I recall AP saying that they reworked the paddles response and feel, and I seem to remember CH reporting it in his review but I may be wrong (too lazy to rewatch it).  Maybe AP's statement can be found again in his interview with Jethro Bovington from EVO during the car's launch too.

Much shorter throw on the paddles for the GT3 - more positive, direct action.

Forget the silliness about the direction. The stick should simply be GONE. All other sport car manufacturers have rid of it. Time to let it go.

SciFrog:

Forget the silliness about the direction. The stick should simply be GONE. All other sport car manufacturers have rid of it. Time to let it go.

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

SciFrog:

Forget the silliness about the direction. The stick should simply be GONE. All other sport car manufacturers have rid of it. Time to let it go.

You are not correct on that. There are times that it is useful. And anyway, it doesn't harm anything by being there.

"Form follows function"

reginos:

SciFrog:

Forget the silliness about the direction. The stick should simply be GONE. All other sport car manufacturers have rid of it. Time to let it go.

You are not correct on that. There are times that it is useful. And anyway, it doesn't harm anything by being there.

Disagree. I never used it, since Porsche installed decent paddles. Ferrari replaced their silly mini handle by a proper button for reverse, all you really need in a PDK car.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Contrary to the conventional rule, with the PDK you can change gear after you entered a corner. Sometimes when the steering wheel is turned it is not convenient to touch the paddles, but it is handier to move your hand from the wheel momentarilly and use the stick. Ferrari have their paddles attached to the collumn and their steering lock is very short, which make it convenient to always access the paddles. 

"Form follows function"

reginos:

Ferrari have their paddles attached to the collumn and their steering lock is very short, which make it convenient to always access the paddles. 

Agreed. Porsche could still improve in this aspect.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Ferrari paddles layout is better but the turn signals on the steering wheel are horrible. So Ferrari have their issues too. For me the 430 Scuderia's layout was perfect.

There is no try. Just do.

Pentium:

Ferrari paddles layout is better but the turn signals on the steering wheel are horrible. So Ferrari have their issues too. For me the 430 Scuderia's layout was perfect.

You're so right about that. I never understood, why they started this whole all-buttons-at-the-steering-wheel-no-stalks-at-the-steering-column-bullshit with the 458, that has now trickled into their V12-models as well. Manettino is fantastic, starting knob fine there as well, but why for heavens's sake do we need the indicators, windscreen wipers and flash light there? Together with the buttons for radio/navi control at the back of the steering wheel...

They are a bit like Porsche with their infamous PDK-buttons here: be different just for the sake of being different.

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Blame the Playstation generation

Rossi, all those problems are coming from the basic layout design... If you mount the paddles in a fixed position on the steering column, you need to make them big so you can always find them with your fingers no matter the position of the steering wheel is (and also you are forced to have a very sharp/quick steering). But when the paddles are so large, the left and right sticks used for the other commands like the turn signal and so on are shifted from their standard position in any car. They are placed lower than usual.

Let my try to explain this better... In a standard car you are used to move your left hand somewhere to the upper left part of the steering wheel to use the turn signal stick. In a Ferrari doing exactly the same move your fingers will touch the left paddle not the stick. The stick is in a lower position than in a normal car, because the paddles are so large, because they are mounted on a fixed position on the steering column. Which is sooooo good when you are on a track... Where you don't need the other commands anyway...

I bet many owners that were switching cars all the time, keeping the Ferrari only for the weekend, had always issues to adapt while driving the F car. It happened to me too... Sometimes I was driving very fast and I wanted to pass someone and because my hand was looking for the turn signal in the wrong place I was ending up passing the car without having the time to use the turn signal anymore. Dangerous move. But it was forced on me. By the time I was moving the hand lower the pass was already completed... Also keep in mind that huge majority of Ferrari owners keep the car in auto so they don't use the paddles that much except to show off. So for them the biggest problem was the position of the sticks. So Ferrari tried something else to solve that problem. And their solution is OK for the vast majority of F car owners that don't hold the steering wheel like a racing driver does so they don't accidentaly press other buttons with their hands anyway. And they can show off with their "F1 inspired steering wheel". Yeah. Sad.

The Porsche has a more conventional setup because their customers are daily driving the cars much more than the F cars are. So they paddles are on the steering wheel. The sticks have the same position as in any other car... and the only downside is if you drive hard on a race track. And even in those times not on all bends you have a problem to flip the right paddles. Exiting a U turn bend is the worst for me, when I need to change up with my left hand (because the steering wheel is turned almost 180 degrees and my left hand is on the right side at that moment).

So you see Rossi is all good... Both car companies actually just adapted to their customer base. 

--

There is no try. Just do.

reginos:

Contrary to the conventional rule, with the PDK you can change gear after you entered a corner. Sometimes when the steering wheel is turned it is not convenient to touch the paddles, but it is handier to move your hand from the wheel momentarilly and use the stick. Ferrari have their paddles attached to the collumn and their steering lock is very short, which make it convenient to always access the paddles. 

This is correct. Since 458 has larger and fixed paddles on the steering column, you can shift gears even in the corners or making turns. 2.2 circles from lock to lock also helps this.

Hovewer, on my ex-92 M3, I had much smaller paddles which were on the steering wheel so when cornering or making a turn, the gear knob helped a lot and make things easier for shifting gears.

--

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

Rossi:

Pentium:

Ferrari paddles layout is better but the turn signals on the steering wheel are horrible. So Ferrari have their issues too. For me the 430 Scuderia's layout was perfect.

You're so right about that. I never understood, why they started this whole all-buttons-at-the-steering-wheel-no-stalks-at-the-steering-column-bullshit with the 458, that has now trickled into their V12-models as well. Manettino is fantastic, starting knob fine there as well, but why for heavens's sake do we need the indicators, windscreen wipers and flash light there? Together with the buttons for radio/navi control at the back of the steering wheel...

They are a bit like Porsche with their infamous PDK-buttons here: be different just for the sake of being different.

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

I think by eliminating the stalks behind the steering wheel, Ferrari could fit larger/longer paddles which are closer to the steering wheel. I find it more difficult to locate horn than finding the turn indicators while driving my 458. I'm perfectly ok with the steering wheel mounted controls.

On the other hand, I find Scuderia's paddles little small/ short and hard to locate especially when the steering wheel is turned.

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

Pentium:

Rossi, all those problems are coming from the basic layout design... If you mount the paddles in a fixed position on the steering column, you need to make them big so you can always find them with your fingers no matter the position of the steering wheel is (and also you are forced to have a very sharp/quick steering). But when the paddles are so large, the left and right sticks used for the other commands like the turn signal and so on are shifted from their standard position in any car. They are placed lower than usual.

--

There is no try. Just do.

+1 Exactly

ONUR

THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

Pentium:

Rossi, all those problems are coming from the basic layout design... If you mount the paddles in a fixed position on the steering column, you need to make them big so you can always find them with your fingers no matter the position of the steering wheel is (and also you are forced to have a very sharp/quick steering). But when the paddles are so large, the left and right sticks used for the other commands like the turn signal and so on are shifted from their standard position in any car. They are placed lower than usual.

Let my try to explain this better... In a standard car you are used to move your left hand somewhere to the upper left part of the steering wheel to use the turn signal stick. In a Ferrari doing exactly the same move your fingers will touch the left paddle not the stick. The stick is in a lower position than in a normal car, because the paddles are so large, because they are mounted on a fixed position on the steering column. Which is sooooo good when you are on a track... Where you don't need the other commands anyway...

I bet many owners that were switching cars all the time, keeping the Ferrari only for the weekend, had always issues to adapt while driving the F car. It happened to me too... Sometimes I was driving very fast and I wanted to pass someone and because my hand was looking for the turn signal in the wrong place I was ending up passing the car without having the time to use the turn signal anymore. Dangerous move. But it was forced on me. By the time I was moving the hand lower the pass was already completed... Also keep in mind that huge majority of Ferrari owners keep the car in auto so they don't use the paddles that much except to show off. So for them the biggest problem was the position of the sticks. So Ferrari tried something else to solve that problem. And their solution is OK for the vast majority of F car owners that don't hold the steering wheel like a racing driver does so they don't accidentaly press other buttons with their hands anyway. And they can show off with their "F1 inspired steering wheel". Yeah. Sad.

The Porsche has a more conventional setup because their customers are daily driving the cars much more than the F cars are. So they paddles are on the steering wheel. The sticks have the same position as in any other car... and the only downside is if you drive hard on a race track. And even in those times not on all bends you have a problem to flip the right paddles. Exiting a U turn bend is the worst for me, when I need to change up with my left hand (because the steering wheel is turned almost 180 degrees and my left hand is on the right side at that moment).

So you see Rossi is all good... Both car companies actually just adapted to their customer base. 

--

There is no try. Just do.

Sorry, I can't follow you on this. I never found the paddle/stalk-combination in the F430 to be troublesome, neither on a track, nor in the city. But those stupid buttons in the 458 are totally out of place IMO.

I bet the following: no way Ferrari chose this layout because of economical reasons or because they wanted to solve a problem. These buttons are on the steering wheel because modern F1-cars also have so many buttons there.

Yeah, I get it, we really need the buttons for wipers, flash lights and indicators there, just as the buttons for wipers, flash lights and indicators in the F1-cars.

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Can we get back to talking about the Macan and not Ferraris?!

Porsche Macan's long lost cousin -- 2015 Audi Q5...

...compared to their Porsche Macan photoshop...

Porsche Macan's long lost cousin: -- 2015 Audi Q5 -- AutoBild article

Wait, so a new Q5 is coming already??? I'm actually in negotiation for a SQ5 which I thought would be a nice car to have for the wife until mid next year when the Macan gets to Australia. 

The Q5 went through a facelift and some upgrades in Sept. 2012. The new one will most probably appear around mid-2015.

"Form follows function"

edgy design seems to come back with Audi  - G-Class and GLK owners must be smiling 

The new Q5 as above looks good with some fresh individuality.  The Macan judging from above is too ordinary.

My vote goes to the Audi and a 10% cash saving in the process. Like with the Cayenne, unless someone is buying the top models (Turbo, GTS etc) there no point choosing the lower models over VW or Audi.

"Form follows function"