CloseSciFrog:
Just wait for a used 991 TTS. Prices will drop faster and harder than previous models.
It depends...it depends on how many used 991 Turbo S will be available within the first 12 months. My guess is: Not many.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)
Jun 11, 2013 6:50:00 PM
RC:
Confirmed: In 2014, the new GT3 engine will be very likely used as a base for the next 911 RSR engine.
Why not this year (2013)? Because it isn't quite clear where the GTE class is heading to...so Porsche slowed down development for the new direct injection engine.
There you go....racing.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)
Over on the other board some folks have argued that the current motor will not be used for racing b/c it was built for lower cost production and is not an easily serviced (that is, easily rebuilt) for racing applications. Any feedback from PAG on that topic?
Apparently some race shops in the US have dug into the 9A1 motor in the 991 and have found it built in a way that it cannot really be rebuilt.
991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff
Jun 12, 2013 4:05:21 PM
FLATSIXES: Will the new engine in the 991 GT3 make it to Porsche motorsports? If so, can you say when and where?
Andreas Preuninger: Sure, it was developed with this exact focus by the same engineers that did all of the flat-6 race and street engines in the past. The reason for not having the engine in the new 991 Cup is mainly timing, because Cup cars are already in production and the streetcar development is still ongoing, now in its last phase.
Secondly, it is a totally different engine and as such, the education of the race teams on how to deal with the new technology is complex and has to be done right and in time.
Future use of this engine in other 911 race cars is planned but in which form the engine will be used depends strongly on future regulations (for example turbo or non turbo).
frayed:
Over on the other board some folks have argued that the current motor will not be used for racing b/c it was built for lower cost production and is not an easily serviced (that is, easily rebuilt) for racing applications. Any feedback from PAG on that topic?
Apparently some race shops in the US have dug into the 9A1 motor in the 991 and have found it built in a way that it cannot really be rebuilt.
The 991 GT3 engine is not the engine used in the 991 Carrera, I don't know why people assume that over and over again. It has the same "genes" so to speak but it is not the same engine.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)
I believe it shares the same casting, but yeah I understand that it's an all new motor. Will be interesting to see what PAG has done to make it servicable by the race teams.
Spyderidol, I read that earlier but it doesn't answer the question about serviceability.
All that said, despite all the detractors and naysayers and know-it-alls I have faith that the new metal will be spectacular! Looking forward to getting mine.
991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff
Jun 12, 2013 6:43:27 PM
I suspect race teams will have replacement engines rather than service them. Just like the 997 engine is replaced rather than rebuilt by the service centers. If they made that call for the majority of their cars already why not for a few race teams? If the GT3 engine can be rebuilt and is that much better then shame on Porsche for not using it in the Turbo.
Jun 12, 2013 7:33:23 PM
Leave it to Harris...
Jun 12, 2013 7:43:22 PM
Chris Harris On Cars: PORSCHE 911 GT3 (First Drive)
Jun 12, 2013 7:52:28 PM
He recognized he has a huge fan base which are MT diehards who wanted him to criticize the car. To their dismay, he found the car just too good and all he could do is give his MT fan base a wet noodle.
I know I made the right decision and cannot wait to get my hands on the car.
However, he did surprise me when he said the 20 inch wheels were an option. I believe he made a mistake.
Jun 12, 2013 10:18:03 PM
PORSCHE 911 GT3 (991): Review by Chris Harris...
Jun 12, 2013 10:28:24 PM
Jun 12, 2013 10:39:47 PM
Carlos from Spain:
nberry:
He recognized he has a huge fan base which are MT diehards who wanted him to criticize the car.
Nick, if you would have followed Chris Harrris' reviews over the years you would not have thrown out such a ridiculous theory.
--
Correct. Chris Harris did not pander to a "manual transmission fan base" but, instead, fomented his manual transmission arguments on his desires and his statements are rather balanced. He is tormented by the lack of a manual in a car that is so capable. However, he does praise the PDK's abilities in the GT3 and how it makes driving a far easier tasks, especially when faced with technical, i.e., curvy roads. More significantly, however, was one of his final statements that Porsche should build a car with that engine and a manual gearbox. Perhaps, a detuned version of the GT3 engine dropped into the Cayman would allow Porsche enough delineation between the GT3 with the PDK and another sporty derivative in its sports car lineup.
Jun 12, 2013 11:06:54 PM
Jun 12, 2013 11:13:53 PM
Carlos from Spain:
nberry:
He recognized he has a huge fan base which are MT diehards who wanted him to criticize the car.
Nick, if you would have followed Chris Harrris' reviews over the years you would not have thrown out such a ridiculous theory.
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Carlos, he made it clear at the beginning that that car is controversial because of the lack of MT. He was well aware that the MT fans which are a big part of his of his audience were hoping he would find fault with the car. Instead he said
"The GT3 is paddles only, and to ignore this car because it's missing a pedal would be foolish. It provides a driving experience I'd have thought impossible in a street-legal 911 until recently - and by recently I mean last week. When you watch the rev counter spring from 8,500rpm to 9,000rpm then tap that lever, receive a nudge to the spine and register an exhaust pop reflecting of a cliff face it's hard to support the notion that the new GT3 is anything other than a complete masterpiece."
Don't be shocked if in January Porsche offers the GT3 with a 7spd CR manual....at extra cost of course! 
I think the initial PDK only strategy in the GT3 has a lot to do with selling the car in emerging markets to newly rich people with little driving experience except for what they learned in Need for Speed and other video games.
JimFlat6:
Don't be shocked if in January Porsche offers the GT3 with a 7spd CR manual....at extra cost of course!
I think the initial PDK only strategy in the GT3 has a lot to do with selling the car in emerging markets to newly rich people with little driving experience except for what they learned in Need for Speed and other video games.
Andreas Preuninger was pretty mad at the comments made on the internet and in the press about the PDK in the GT3 and the missing manual option. Chris Harris actually confirmed what Preuninger always claimed but apparently there are still die hard manual fans out there who just won't listen (or don't care to listen because they want their toy the way they know best 
). I do not know any ambitious driver who would want to be slower for the sake of driving manual but I guess I know the wrong people. 
Truth is: Porsche gets a lot of heat for not offering manual anymore for the GT3, including potential customers. My dealer told me that he has many people interested in the new GT3 but some wouldn't order one because it lacks manual. While I can understand this...a little bit...most of these people are not pro drivers but regular customers who love a good drive. It is quite interesting to actually see that those who did professional racing, actually want to have PDK but those who are considered amateur drivers, want manual. I don't know if this is something we can generalize but the people I talked to certainly seem to "tick" that way.
Maybe the a compromise would help: There are rumors that the new GT3 RS could be available with manual, especially after the pressure from die hard GT3 customers who want manual. Not sure however if this is the best solution (since the GT3 RS would be probably slower than the GT3 with PDK for that matter ) but if people want to eat sh.t instead of honey, give them sh.t. 
(this is not from me, I just heard that from a well known professional driver who I better do not name here...for the sake of Porsche 
).
Personally, I would choose the new PDK (based on the recent experience of CH) but I wouldn't have anything against offering manual for those who want it. Why not? I would even make it an extra cost option. 
Speaking of Chris Harris: If he says he liked the GT3, this means it is true. I also understand his statement about manual but then I could argue that for fun, he also drifts a lot and this is something I actually avoid to be faster. For me, it is fun to achieve the maximum possible performance, to drive from A to B in the fastest possible way, with technical razor sharp precision. A drift would slow me down, I don't like it. I enjoyed it why I had the C63 AMG Coupe (actually, this is the car you want to have if you have fun drifting) but this isn't something I enjoy like Chris Harris. Maybe because in my younger days, I did that a lot and it kind of got boring. Yes, it looks spectacular and everybody thinks that whoever can drift that good, is a fantastic driver but I actually know a guy who is amazing when it comes to drifting but he isn't capable of driving a clean line on the track without oversteering, he just can't (his claim).
Like I said, if I were Porsche, I would offer a manual transmission at extra cost. Just the other way around, PDK standard and manual for 4k EUR. Make the best out of the situation...
CH said: I suppose it's a point of principle, really. Changing gear yourself is one of the cornerstones of driver skill and enjoyment. As every other manufacturer of very fast cars has abandoned the noble gear lever, Porsche had a chance to show that it operated on a different level to those traitors. But it chose not to. However, I cannot allow that to taint what the GT3 has become. It is faster, better and in many ways more enjoyable than before. Just thinking about that engine as it heads into the red zone makes me grin. But the GT3 wouldn't have been more things to more people if there was an option to change gear yourself - of that I remain quite convince
This is his opinion and I respect that. For me, the cornerstone of driver skill and enjoyment is to be as fast as possible. Everything else, I left behind with my late puberty. The only thing which is really missing here is...the clutch. Maybe Porsche should offer a manual gear lever to provide the illusion of a manual transmission. Maybe even a fake clutch pedal. (just kidding of course).
I get it, many want manual with a clutch for driving pleasure but this is the same thing as owning a Cab in Germany. You use it twice per year with an open top (or if you are crazy, like many, you drive open at 0°C) but actually accept all the disadvantages of a Cab for that matter, like additional weight, more noise and usually also less rigidity, which usually makes the Cab feel slightly less sporty than the Coupe counterpart.
A last word regarding the Cayman and a de-tuned GT3 engine: Really? Does anyone, judging by the performance the current Cayman S delivers, that Porsche will ever do that?! Case closed.
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)
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