Crown

20s

KresoF1:

20s

You mean less than 30s?))))

0-300 in around 32 secs.

rc is for under 30 secs, and doubting my source, so we will soon see who is right. Mp4-12c definitly out performance the 991 turbo s up to 300 km/h, so will the upcomging gallardo successor or the 458 montecarlo. Hard competition already on the way..

Is the Turbo S a competitor for these cars? I never thought so. Why do people insist to still do these comparisons? The price is much lower and also the purpose of owning a Turbo compare to a so-called exotic. 

In my mind the Turbo S competitors are the R8 V10 and the SLS and maybe something else that doesn't come to my mind.

Porsche will take on the 458, 12C, new Callardo with the 960, if it materiazes. If someone buys a Turbo S instead of these cars because it is a cheaper option then this person will be very sad and disappointed. If someone buys a Turbo S for the purpose it exists  and as a deliberate decision, then this person will be very happy (and who knows, sometimes he may even outperform the others on the right road and under the right weather conditions).

"Form follows function"

artur777:

KresoF1:

20s

You mean less than 30s?))))

He means 20 seconds which is quite right. According to current information, the 991 Turbo S does 0-300 kph in under 30 seconds (if it is 29.1 or 29.9 seconds, I do not know). Real life 0-200 kph figure is under 10 seconds (best time achieved was 9.7 seconds with a production specs mule).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

reginos:

Is the Turbo S a competitor for these cars? I never thought so. Why do people insist to still do these comparisons? The price is much lower and also the purpose of owning a Turbo compare to a so-called exotic. 

In my mind the Turbo S competitors are the R8 V10 and the SLS and maybe something else that doesn't come to my mind.

Porsche will take on the 458, 12C, new Callardo with the 960, if it materiazes. If someone buys a Turbo S instead of these cars because it is a cheaper option then this person will be very sad and disappointed. If someone buys a Turbo S for the purpose it exists  and as a deliberate decision, then this person will be very happy (and who knows, sometimes he may even outperform the others on the right road and under the right weather conditions).

 

The problem is the price tag. Now even more than ever. So yes, the 991 Turbo S is a direct competitor in a way or another. I would just wait for the real life test results. Remember the R8 V10 Plus? So much praise for this car and real life performance is even below (0-100 kph) and at par (0-200 kph) with the Panamera Turbo S.  Keep in mind that the R8 is 400(!!!) kg lighter than the Panamera. On the Nordschleife, the R8 was only 7 seconds faster than the Panamera and the R8 had UHP tires. Embarrassing. 

Of course the next generation is faster, no doubt about it but the 911 Turbo S (997) put the benchmark pretty high and it is going to be tough to beat the new 991 Turbo S, especially on the track or from 0-100 kph (real life figures of under 3 seconds have been achieved during testing).

Also, according to rumors, there has been a comparison meeting within the VW Group where the new 991 Turbo S has been compared to the all new R8 and all new Cabrera. Apparently the 991 Turbo S scored the most points, which of course included also comfort, fuel efficiency and daily driver capabilities. Only thing the 991 Turbo S apparently failed was the interior look and feel, which apparently needs an overhaul.

I understand Kreso's position: He just wants a sportscar with maximum performance  for 200k EUR, he doesn't care about daily driver capabilities, bad weather capabilities or whatever. I would go for a used MP4-12C then.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

artur777:

KresoF1:

20s

You mean less than 30s?))))

He means 20 seconds which is quite right. According to current information, the 991 Turbo S does 0-300 kph in under 30 seconds (if it is 29.1 or 29.9 seconds, I do not know). Real life 0-200 kph figure is under 10 seconds (best time achieved was 9.7 seconds with a production specs mule).

I understand now, thanks. I am not sure that Cabrera will be faster than 991 turbo s. 

According to rumors, no car in the VW Group beats the Turbo S from 0-100 kph.  Only exception: The Bugatti Veyron. Even the 918 could have trouble if the pavement isn't sticky enough. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Dario:

0-300 in around 32 secs.

rc is for under 30 secs, and doubting my source, so we will soon see who is right. Mp4-12c definitly out performance the 991 turbo s up to 300 km/h, so will the upcomging gallardo successor or the 458 montecarlo. Hard competition already on the way..

 

I can only quote official and semi-official sources. Since these are the only sources right now to provide performance data, your "source" is fishing/guessing, nothing more. 

So in the end, you could be right or I could be right but like I said before, the official stuff indicates "under 30 seconds, 29.something) and since NOBODY else has any independent data, your source is just guessing. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Christian,

I narrowed my choice to two sportcars:

-Ferrari F12 Berlinetta

or

-991 Turbo S

If I go for 991 Turbo S I could probably add something like new RS6 Avant as family car. Tempting...

KresoF1:

Christian,

I narrowed my choice to two sportcars:

-Ferrari F12 Berlinetta

or

-991 Turbo S

If I go for 991 Turbo S I could probably add something like new RS6 Avant as family car. Tempting...

Kreso F1, why Berlinetta and not Cabrera?

KresoF1:

Christian,

I narrowed my choice to two sportcars:

-Ferrari F12 Berlinetta

or

-991 Turbo S

If I go for 991 Turbo S I could probably add something like new RS6 Avant as family car. Tempting...

The Ferrari F12 is a very special car and if you really want/need a pure sports car only, the F12 may be a good choice. Another interesting choice could be the MP4-12C, I heard that McLaren is working on improving the steering feel.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

KresoF1:
You asked for time in 200km/h till 300km/h.

Thanks! Will the facelift be with a new engine and much better specs like 997.2 towards 997.1 TT?

artur777:

KresoF1:
You asked for time in 200km/h till 300km/h.

Thanks! Will the facelift be with a new engine and much better specs like 997.2 towards 997.1 TT?

1. How should we know if the facelift will get a new engine? 

2. No.  (unless there is a lot of pressure from the competition and/or the current engine doesn't perform as expected in terms of reliability, etc.).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

artur777:

KresoF1:
You asked for time in 200km/h till 300km/h.

Thanks! Will the facelift be with a new engine and much better specs like 997.2 towards 997.1 TT?

1. How should we know if the facelift will get a new engine? 

2. No.  (unless there is a lot of pressure from the competition and/or the current engine doesn't perform as expected in terms of reliability, etc.).

You both sometimes know very special things)))

thanks! its very important because I will be pissed off to see new engine with the facelift if I buy turbo s now)

Thanks for all the knowledge imparted here!  I still want my turbo s cab at 3200 pounds!  Yes i know i wont get it...  But maybe when the bucket seats arrive..... I'll order.  Ive never forgotten how incredibly fast my 997 turbo s cab was, and so surefooted in rain, mud and gravel. And at least i can order lug wheels.

Artur, the one bummer w turbo s is massive depreciation, same as panemera turbo s

watt:

Thanks for all the knowledge imparted here!  I still want my turbo s cab at 3200 pounds!  Yes i know i wont get it...  But maybe when the bucket seats arrive..... I'll order.  Ive never forgotten how incredibly fast my 997 turbo s cab was, and so surefooted in rain, mud and gravel. And at least i can order lug wheels.

Artur, the one bummer w turbo s is massive depreciation, same as panemera turbo s

This is why I lease it. 

The new 991 Turbo S Cab will be faster than the old one, so what are you waiting for? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

I know we've had this purchase\lease conversation before - but just so I understand perhaps differences in Germany to UK. A Lease in UK effectively charges you the cost of depreciation over the term of the lease. What it saves you is the initial capital outlay tied into the car. So assuming this is the same in Germany, aside from the capital outlay, you still suffer the depreciation by higher monthly payments?

991 (what a car!) XC90 - Black/Black 2 kids, 1 dog

bridggar:

I know we've had this purchase\lease conversation before - but just so I understand perhaps differences in Germany to UK. A Lease in UK effectively charges you the cost of depreciation over the term of the lease. What it saves you is the initial capital outlay tied into the car. So assuming this is the same in Germany, aside from the capital outlay, you still suffer the depreciation by higher monthly payments?

The monthly payments do naturally have to reflect the underlying depreciation, but the car's driver is less inclined to notice the degree of depreciation directly. 
I suspect (but don't know for a fact) that the overall tax situation for companies financing leased cars may be more favourable in Germany than in the UK, making leasing as compared with outright purchase a more attractive deal also for the end user in one country than the other.

fritz

bridggar:

I know we've had this purchase\lease conversation before - but just so I understand perhaps differences in Germany to UK. A Lease in UK effectively charges you the cost of depreciation over the term of the lease. What it saves you is the initial capital outlay tied into the car. So assuming this is the same in Germany, aside from the capital outlay, you still suffer the depreciation by higher monthly payments?

The initial payment (if any) and the monthly payments are set at the beginning of the lease, not at the end. So if the dealer calculates a too low residual value, it is HIS problem. I got a very good lease deal, meaning that if I would have bought the car and sold it after three years, I doubt I would have lost that little. In the worst (or best in that case) case scenario, the lease would cost me the same, so nothing lost here. I do not have the risk of a residual value and/or of selling the car in a very unstable(?) market.

I do not want to put the real numbers in my posts because I really got a very special deal and I do not want people go to my dealer or Porsche and ask for the same deal. Lease deals are made on an individual basis and based on the talent to negotiate, the value as a customer (for the dealer) and so on. If I make the numbers public, it puts pressure on people who I really appreciate dealing with and I don't want that. Good deals are possible, sometimes dealers even have a certain customer base for certain used models, so he knows what he is getting for that particular car in three years, as weird is this may sound. My Panamera Turbo S was gone in a second, my dealer already had a customer for it who waited open hearted for such a great car for a much lower price.

To be blunt: I don't care how the dealer calculates his margin and the residual value. I pay a FIXED initial payment at the beginning of the lease, I pay FIXED (unless VAT goes up during the lease) initial payments for 36 months, I drive 30000 km with the car (or less...then I get a small refund or more...then I have to pay aprox. 2700 EUR for an additional 10000 km) and then I return the car to the dealer and I am DONE with it. No worries.

If I get ill and I cannot work and I cannot pay for the car, I am insured. Even if I die.  If the car gets stolen, I am insured too. Only problem could be if it gets stolen after two years (my insurance pays for two years the price of a new car) but even there, there is an insurance for the difference between what the lease company expects and what the insurance pays. 

Life is wonderful, isn't it?! 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

fritz:

bridggar:

I know we've had this purchase\lease conversation before - but just so I understand perhaps differences in Germany to UK. A Lease in UK effectively charges you the cost of depreciation over the term of the lease. What it saves you is the initial capital outlay tied into the car. So assuming this is the same in Germany, aside from the capital outlay, you still suffer the depreciation by higher monthly payments?

The monthly payments do naturally have to reflect the underlying depreciation, but the car's driver is less inclined to notice the degree of depreciation directly. 
I suspect (but don't know for a fact) that the overall tax situation for companies financing leased cars may be more favourable in Germany than in the UK, making leasing as compared with outright purchase a more attractive deal also for the end user in one country than the other.

Another HUGE advantage of the lease of a high end expensive car in Germany:

I do not put the 991 Turbo S on my company, simply because I already have the Cayenne GTS, which makes more "sense" for my company, even from the tax office's point of view.

When I buy a 210k EUR car in Germany as a private person, whoever buys the car from me later on, cannot deduct the 19% VAT if for example he wants to export the car or get it for a company somewhere.

If I lease the car however, even as a private person, the car keeps the 19% VAT deduction possibility.

Maybe this is something specific to Germany but one really has to be DUMB in Germany, to buy such a high priced car privately. It doesn't make sense, unless you really plan to keep the car longer than three years. I don't.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)