Crown

BMW designers really seem to lack a vision. Especially the interior is boring as hell. 

Each time I enter my Cayenne GTS, it is like eye candy. Each time I enter my wife's X3 35d, I get the feeling sitting in a Dacia. No kidding. My wife has full leather, so this can't be it.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)

BMW in all their ranges, is for people who are happy with second best.  BMW, since the late 60s have been an example of the triumph of marketing over engineering.  Deep down I am fond of the BMW brand because of the motorsport  legacy of the 70s CSLs and 80s M3s and with every successive model I expect something more which unfortunately, never comes.

However, I have owned 3 BMW motorcycles, 2 of which I still ride

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"Form follows function"

RC:

BMW designers really seem to lack a vision. Especially the interior is boring as hell. 

Each time I enter my Cayenne GTS, it is like eye candy. Each time I enter my wife's X3 35d, I get the feeling sitting in a Dacia. No kidding. My wife has full leather, so this can't be it.

How big is price difference difference between X3 and Cayenne GTS? All Porsches since Panamera are great inside, IMO ther are on its own class. Also current 7, 6 and 5 series are very nice inside and much better than their predecessors IMO. Im more concerned with their exterior design, because some cars doesn't look good, including X5 (at least on official photos).

Spotted X5 M sport:

http://www.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=849856

The best designs are by Audi, IMO. They might be criticized as too plain for the taste of some, but they are very pleasing shapes with solid looks and an enduring timelessness. Look at a Q5 next to a X3 and you will realize how ungainly the BMW looks.

I hope Audi do something good with the next generation Q7, because competing cars in this class (including the Cayenne) lack style.

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"Form follows function"

reginos:

The best designs are by Audi, IMO. They might be criticized as too plain for the taste of some, but they are very pleasing shapes with solid looks and an enduring timelessness. Look at a Q5 next to a X3 and you will realize how ungainly the BMW looks.

I hope Audi do something good with the next generation Q7, because competing cars in this class (including the Cayenne) lack style.

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"Form follows function"

Yes, I like Audi a lot. I think that Audi and Porsche (minus a couple of things on Panamera but also Cayenne and Boxster) have the best design in the industry right now. Of course I like Ferrari and Aston Martin (all cars look almost the same, they need to change something) too but Maserati is moving into the wrong direction and Lamborghini has a too "busy" design for my taste, so far I like the latest Gallardo models best (funny: When the Gallardo showed up, I didn't like him too much). BMW...too boring. Mercedes...too "busy" (they try too hard...). Japanese: OMG.   I also like the MP4-12C (reminds me of the F1 but with modern design attributes, without copying Ferrari or Lamborghini) and...please do not laugh, the Bentley Continental GT Coupe (classic, timeless look).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)

that car is just......ugly.....

 It looks like one of those chinese BMW knock offs

Carlos from Spain:

 It looks like one of those chinese BMW knock offs

  BMW tried too hard. I wonder why they actually adapted the X3 design, they should have come up with something new, something "fresh". What a pity... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)

I don't like ANY current BMW designs... I thought Bangle was bad, but it only got worse...

SciFrog:

I don't like ANY current BMW designs... I thought Bangle was bad, but it only got worse...

The 5 is a neat design but lacking any passion. It is fit for 50+ year old accountants

I happened to be looking at a metallic beige Z4 this afternoon. What a mishmash of lines and stylistic elements and what a pretentious design . It made me appreciate the Boxster style more.

"Form follows function"

RC:

reginos:

The best designs are by Audi, IMO. They might be criticized as too plain for the taste of some, but they are very pleasing shapes with solid looks and an enduring timelessness. Look at a Q5 next to a X3 and you will realize how ungainly the BMW looks.

I hope Audi do something good with the next generation Q7, because competing cars in this class (including the Cayenne) lack style.

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"Form follows function"

Yes, I like Audi a lot. I think that Audi and Porsche (minus a couple of things on Panamera but also Cayenne and Boxster) have the best design in the industry right now. Of course I like Ferrari and Aston Martin (all cars look almost the same, they need to change something) too but Maserati is moving into the wrong direction and Lamborghini has a too "busy" design for my taste, so far I like the latest Gallardo models best (funny: When the Gallardo showed up, I didn't like him too much). BMW...too boring. Mercedes...too "busy" (they try too hard...). Japanese: OMG.   I also like the MP4-12C (reminds me of the F1 but with modern design attributes, without copying Ferrari or Lamborghini) and...please do not laugh, the Bentley Continental GT Coupe (classic, timeless look).

 

I like Alfa as well. And apparently they are going to use the Ghibli/Quattroporte platform to develop some larger Alfas, so I will be looking forward to that.

I am a fan of 60s Alfas up to the rear transaxle Alfetta/Guilietta models. From that time quality and the driving experience dropped, Alfa's  reputation was tarnished  and hasn't fully recovered ever since.

I was hoping for VW to acquire Alfa and to turn them around, but unfortunately  I don't think this will happen.

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"Form follows function"

SciFrog:

I don't like ANY current BMW designs... I thought Bangle was bad, but it only got worse...

...Bangle may be gone, but his design in a well hidden form is STILL been put into new BMW cars by his student - Adrian Hooydonk...

The guy on the left: "...what is this guy (on the right) smoking?...I want the same"...

RC:

Carlos from Spain:

 It looks like one of those chinese BMW knock offs

  BMW tried too hard. I wonder why they actually adapted the X3 design, they should have come up with something new, something "fresh". What a pity... 

IMO their the best designed prototype / car was Concept CS, which unfortunately never saw production and didin't have big influence on upcoming designs. IMO Gran Lusso Coupe isn't on same level as Concept CS.

Im wondering why almost always photoshops - predictions in magazines looks much better than real design. Designers doesn't read magazines, where they would see how better prediction looks than a real product ?

Maybe it has to do with their customers? Over here in Bavaria, you can see tons of BMW X1, X3 and X5, so BMW must actually do something right.  I liked the design of the last generation X5 when it came out but I expected something more refined for the new generation, not a X3 knock-off, just bigger. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)

I am a convert to Audi interior also. They are really #1 now in interior design plus fit and finish. The S8 I have now is light years ahead of my old Alpina B7. They might be the same price but sitting in it the Audi just makes you feel this car is worth an extra 30k-50k. 

Audi's are nicer but... Bmw's drive better. Period. 

Steering feel is too light, no feedback, not to mention that most audi's are front wheel drive. What the best bmw's are lacking right now are 4wd, better looks and interiors, and they could use more torque.

still, i prefer bmw's because they drive better. 

My S8 drives miles better than the Alpina B7 xDrive, both are about the sam size but the Audi feels like a class smaller, unbelievably more agile and a lot more powerful. I am sooooooo surprised. 

BUT, BMW still has the better Nav/Audio system, 1st gen Bangle 7 was the best, one knob for eye-free operation, it has gotten worst after they add back more buttons but Audi one was just plain BAD, no 8 way control knob and the touchpad is like the most useless idea ever. To their credit, it's better than Mercedes who makes the 2nd worse ever, Lexus has THE WORSE with the useless touch screen.

amazon:

 

Audi's are nicer but... Bmw's drive better. Period. 

I really think you are wrong here. 

Steering feel is too light, no feedback, not to mention that most audi's are front wheel drive. What the best bmw's are lacking right now are 4wd, better looks and interiors, and they could use more torque.

Are you sure you are talking Audi? I just recently drove a new Q5 TDi 3.0 and the steering feel was much better (sportier, more direct) than on my wife's X3 35d. Also when I compare the S and RS models, BMW can close shop.

still, i prefer bmw's because they drive better. 

What do you mean by "better"? Sportier? I doubt it. Audi has come pretty far in my opinion, they are actually the next BMW.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC

Also when I compare the S and RS models, BMW can close shop

Christian, you actually prefer the Audi RS models to BMW M versions ?..

throt

"I didn't do it"

throt:

RC

Also when I compare the S and RS models, BMW can close shop

Christian, you actually prefer the Audi RS models to BMW M versions ?..

I'm not a big M GmbH fan anymore, I like the S and RS "packages" from Audi more, even if the M3/M5 have some advantages too.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

throt:

RC

Also when I compare the S and RS models, BMW can close shop

Christian, you actually prefer the Audi RS models to BMW M versions ?..

I'm not a big M GmbH fan anymore, I like the S and RS "packages" from Audi more, even if the M3/M5 have some advantages too.

The s model from audi lacks power and, as far as I know, the RS4 and 5 have a weird kind of engine. These two are More like muscles cars. Same thing is true if you compare the RS3 and the recent 135m.

An M3, as old as it is, still beats the crap out of an RS5. The bmw came out in 2006, and the RS5 in 2010 or 2011, don't remember. 

I am not saying that S and RS cars are bad of course. But still, BMW has the lead in the sports car department. Not to mention that the new M3 and M4 are just around the corner.

Just Test drove the new rs6. It is a let down compaired to the m5/M6 and made my decision easy to swap the m5 for the  M6 with competition package. 

If some one need an all Year round car, than i can see the rs6, other ways it is a no no. The engine of the rs6 is now were near the engine of the m5/m6, suspension ways all the way m, and personaly the interiour of the M6 matches my tast mutch better

by the way M6 Grand Coupé 100-200 in 7.6 sec in latest AMS vs cls63 biturbo..

amazon:

RC:

throt:

RC

Also when I compare the S and RS models, BMW can close shop

Christian, you actually prefer the Audi RS models to BMW M versions ?..

I'm not a big M GmbH fan anymore, I like the S and RS "packages" from Audi more, even if the M3/M5 have some advantages too.

The s model from audi lacks power and, as far as I know, the RS4 and 5 have a weird kind of engine. These two are More like muscles cars. Same thing is true if you compare the RS3 and the recent 135m.

An M3, as old as it is, still beats the crap out of an RS5. The bmw came out in 2006, and the RS5 in 2010 or 2011, don't remember. 

I am not saying that S and RS cars are bad of course. But still, BMW has the lead in the sports car department. Not to mention that the new M3 and M4 are just around the corner.

 

hmm...how could BMW have the lead in sports car department since they currently don't make any sports car? 

Audi at least has the R8 

amazon:

I am not saying that S and RS cars are bad of course. But still, BMW has the lead in the sports car department. Not to mention that the new M3 and M4 are just around the corner.

I don't know...BMW just got boring. 

Also, you seem to forget the Audi R8, which has no competition from BMW.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)

BMW have coined the "Ultimate Driving Machine" and "Freude am fahren" (joy of driving) advertising slogans and everybody believed them at the time, that they invented the sports car in a practical limousine body.

Since then, many people still believe that driving a 3 series or a 5 series is sporty compared to comparable Audi or a Mercedes or  Jaguar. This is absolute rubbish in reality but good marketing on BMW's behalf.

Ironically, the myth about the sporty BMW was proliferated at a time when any BMW could embarrassingly oversteer and possibly spin on a spilled glass of water. It took BMW some 30 years to cure this very basic flaw, with the E36.

Nowadays, I don't find any of the BMWs interesting or pretty. IMO, if you want a limousine, with comfort in mind buy Mercedes-Benz, if you want a solid car to travel long distances, day in day out in any weather, buy Audi and if you want performance and sports driving fun buy Porsche. The rest is a waste of money, unless you can afford something too extravagant.

"Form follows function"

BMW M is completely dead. They sold out. M3 convertible. M5 Touring (thank god that's dead) Then they had to make M3 CSL versions to bring the actual M DNA.. Just horrible. The M badge then started showing up on every model for NO reason... X5, X6... diesels, busses, compacts... WTF It's nothing more than for poseurs now and its showing. Kids with their e30s and M badges all over is soo funny, but I actually find what BMW does with their model range a disgrace. Like I said many times before, the last good BMW was the e46. From that 330ci I will jump nicely to an older 911.

As for this new X5, well I see why they opted for this design, but it just doesn't do it anymore. It's overstyled like the Mercedes's too.

As for Audi, always been a fan, understated design.

1991 BMW 535i(e34) Granitsilber/White Leather

Ex: '91 BMW 318i(e36), '89 BMW 525i(e34), '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E(w114), '87 BMW 325is(e30), '86 BMW 325e(e30), '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

Shakal:

Video: All three generations side by side:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Bn_wKJ_7m8g

 

...starting at some point I don't pay much attention to inside/outside design anymore, it's just not perfect anymore as it used to be many years ago...It's "hit and miss and hide misses" development, that's what is happening at BMW AG today.  They "hit" close to 100% some functions in some selected BMW model, then they "miss" in many more areas in multiple other BMW models and "cover" some misses by useless marketing propaganda.

What I still pay close attention to is a pure internal overall car platform implementation - car balance, agility, dynamic capability, sportiness, responsiveness and etc. It is evolving in some models and,  what bothers me, in some important models it is evolving not for the better.

5series platform was dismantled. Instead "short  7series" wheelbase platform for the new 5series was selected. As a consequence, 5series luxury cruising style increased, but sportiness and agility suffered...

Judging by the above video, the new X5 will be overall longer, wheelbase will be also bigger/longer. As a consequence, this again  WILL ADD luxury and stability to a car cruising and WILL SUBTRACT from it's agility, sportiness. It may become much MORE difficult to perform a lane change maneuver at speed in a new BMW  X5.

Similar wheelbase intermodel increase PORSCHE AG performed for economic reasons starting with the 2011 Cayenne platform. 2011 Cayenne car platform and wheelbase is longer/bigger, than the previous generations Cayenne. They adopted a "modified shorter" Panamera wheelbase platform for the Cayenne implementation. As a consequence, after2011 Cayennes are a little less agile, than pre2011 Cayennes. But PORSCHE AG very intelligently covered and compensated for that fact by REDUCING overall Cayenne weight and lowering car center of gravity. So this became less apparent for a regular typical Cayenne owner/driver today, but NOT for me. I've just adjusted.

I'm worried, that BMW AG may NOT be that intelligent with the new X5 platform implementation, as PORSCHE AG was with Cayenne. Time will tell, if they will strike a BALANCE...

amazon:

 

Audi's are nicer but... Bmw's drive better. Period. 

Steering feel is too light, no feedback, not to mention that most audi's are front wheel drive. What the best bmw's are lacking right now are 4wd, better looks and interiors, and they could use more torque.

still, i prefer bmw's because they drive better. 

 

 

 

 

Today the picture has changed - the new AWD Audis feel better and more refined than most BMWs. Audi gained a lot in comparison to BMW. Not to speak about design...

MKSGR:

amazon:

 

Audi's are nicer but... Bmw's drive better. Period. 

Steering feel is too light, no feedback, not to mention that most audi's are front wheel drive. What the best bmw's are lacking right now are 4wd, better looks and interiors, and they could use more torque.

still, i prefer bmw's because they drive better. 

 

 

 

 

Today the picture has changed - the new AWD Audis feel better and more refined than most BMWs. Audi gained a lot in comparison to BMW. Not to speak about design...

Refinement for Audi's,,, yes...I always did see the S5 as a good buy. Its been stated too alot,  for the extra coin the RS5 cost it was not that much better than the S5, which was a shame....

throt

"I didn't do it"