Mar 17, 2006 9:39:26 AM
- londondude
- Junior
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- Loc: London
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- Registered on: Feb 10, 2005
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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997
Language: English
Region: Worldwide
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Mar 17, 2006 10:38:15 AM
- robbo
- Pilot
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- Loc: essex, uk
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- Reply to: londondude
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
IMO, unless you are on the track there is no good reason to turn PSM off. If you turn it off it must mean you are driving like a dangerous icehole on public streets and your scorn of safety devices also compells you to drive without seatbelts.
Could someone explain the GOOD reasons to turn it off on public streets?
Could someone explain the GOOD reasons to turn it off on public streets?
Mar 17, 2006 7:08:13 PM
- Rafael from Spain
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- Loc: Madrid, Spain
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- Reply to: JJBlade
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
PSM should be always on while you are not concentrating. E.g. commuting or motorway driving. I do not think is smart to disconnect PSM while going at high speeds because it does not intervine unless you are going to die. No matter how good you think you are, if you loose the car at 200+ kph unless you are fully concentrated (like you are racing) you are gone.
When you are on B-roads (country lanes, roundabouts,...) and you want to have fun and you know it is disconnected I do not see any reason against having it temporalily off and enjoy some tail movement
When you are on B-roads (country lanes, roundabouts,...) and you want to have fun and you know it is disconnected I do not see any reason against having it temporalily off and enjoy some tail movement
Mar 17, 2006 7:24:32 PM
- JJBlade
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- Loc: UK
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- Reply to: Rafael from Spain
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
Quote:
JJBlade said:
It is not that I think 'i am good' or anything of the sort. I ride my bike without any safety features and that has a heck of a lot more power/weight and therefore I drive my car in the same manner.
Be careful. The PSM kind of saved my bacon the other day. Showing off to a new girl friend on wet pavement ..... stupid I know. Long story short, she said "great handling" and I thought to myself, "holy sh..t".
I know about ride my bike hard and fast too... but I still love the ABS on it.
Just my opinion.
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
The definition of accident is what happening to us when we least expect it. I am glad that you are careful on both your bike and car. That is all good.
The only time I was down on my bike was such a rookie mistake that happened in a split second during a long day trip of 500+ mile day and I have 28 year accident free experience on my bike. ABS whould have helped then.
Don't mean to preach.
What do you ride?
Rubber side down and have fun in the p-car. Great machines and sooooo much fun.
Cheers.
The only time I was down on my bike was such a rookie mistake that happened in a split second during a long day trip of 500+ mile day and I have 28 year accident free experience on my bike. ABS whould have helped then.
Don't mean to preach.
What do you ride?
Rubber side down and have fun in the p-car. Great machines and sooooo much fun.
Cheers.
Mar 18, 2006 1:31:54 AM
- U Boat Commander
- Veteran
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- Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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- Reply to: kw sofadv
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
I hate PSM. It's that simple. I didn't have it on my 993 or 996 at all and I don't know why I need it on my 997. For me, PSM takes away part of the fun of owning a 911. IMO, PSM is for people who don't understand how to drive a 911. Actually, I believe that Porsche put the PSM on the 997 as standard for liability reasons. They were worried about getting sued by guys like Nick Berry when some [censored] slams his 911 into a pole when making an aggresive turn.
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
Quote:
JJBlade said:
Mine is always off. I hate the way it intervenes so every time I get in the car I turn it off.
Umm, if it intervenes every time you get in the car, it pretty much means you are driving beyond your ability. PSM allows for quite a bit of lateral movement before intervention, becoming active much later than in the 996, and it is less intrusive, too. If you're driving hard and fast and on line, PSM won't kick on.
PSM also = Please Save Me
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
I've been on the track with a Porsche Carrera cup driver and he had to work damn hard to get the psm light to come on ......
The car has so much grip that for you to get the psm to intervene on a regular basis probably means you are diving like a loon or need to re-evaluate your driving style....
There are many people out there who can drive their cars or ride their bikes hard but are not safe with it..
Enjoy your car but don't endanger other road users .....if you need to drive with psm off all the time then you ned to be on a track........
The car has so much grip that for you to get the psm to intervene on a regular basis probably means you are diving like a loon or need to re-evaluate your driving style....
There are many people out there who can drive their cars or ride their bikes hard but are not safe with it..
Enjoy your car but don't endanger other road users .....if you need to drive with psm off all the time then you ned to be on a track........
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
Quote:
MMD said:
IMO, unless you are on the track there is no good reason to turn PSM off. If you turn it off it must mean you are driving like a dangerous icehole on public streets and your scorn of safety devices also compells you to drive without seatbelts.
Could someone explain the GOOD reasons to turn it off on public streets?
Oh come on....
As long as you drive like you should drive on public roads, you have no real need for PSM.
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
And explain it to the driver of the car coming towards you on a corner that you are out of control in as you have unexpectadly just hit an oily patch of road surface...........psm would have allowed safe passage , but by switching it off you have negated the chance of safely negotiating the said corner.
PSM allows for a large margin of error before intervening.....by choosing to switch it off you are saying that either you are a hero of a driver able to catch it if it unexpectedly goes pearshaped or you want to drive like a loony..........either way not being sensible on the public highway......
PSM allows for a large margin of error before intervening.....by choosing to switch it off you are saying that either you are a hero of a driver able to catch it if it unexpectedly goes pearshaped or you want to drive like a loony..........either way not being sensible on the public highway......
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
I just completed a 'Porsche Driving Experience' prior to taking delivery of my new 997 C4S; the demonstration of power off oversteer from 50 mph with PSM off, and on, demonstrates clearly that it takes very little mishandling in a relatively benign environment to lose control. There is no way that I will be switching off the PSM!
Mar 18, 2006 4:06:24 PM
- Porky Tokyo
- Senior
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- Loc: Tokyo, Japan
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- Registered on: Oct 8, 2005
- Reply to: Delbox
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
I always leave PSM on but have experimented with it off - not in my car : ) and can say, I prefer to have it on. I can't see why you would want it off for normal driving. I am very interested from those who commented that it interfers with your driving, do you want to give some specifics, type of road? what you were doing attempting to do? The speed you were going etc? I have been round corners at very high speeds and to say if I turn right, am in the right gear etc, the car is planted, if I am going to fast the back end has been known to come out of place a little but I put that down to my being a little too fast and the PSM helping out.
Mar 18, 2006 4:29:09 PM
- Silver Bullet
- Veteran
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- Loc: Canada
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- Reply to: Porky Tokyo
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
If you have sport chrono, then in sport mode, PSM is less intrusive than the standard PSM on setting. That seems like a very reasonable compromise between the 2 camps expressing strong views to me.
There is a school of thought that if you are having PSM intervene, you are not driving well. At Porsche driving school, I understand that one of the teachings, demonstrated by the instructors, is that the fastest lap is the most efficient lap, and that is one where you don't slide, and you minimize both over and understeer. That is achieved by perfectly choosing the right line, and employing the right deceleration timing, speed, and acceleration timing. An instructor at the BMW driving course who is a friend of mine has told me that before he learned to drive his Boxster S well, he would notice PSM intervening frequently on the track. Now that his driving skills are at the instructor's level, it hardly does.
It's pretty clear that many people think they are better drivers than they really are. I think that we should all be humble, and rather than assume that PSM is limiting our capabilities, consider the possibility that it is correcting our mistakes. Of course, sometimes PSM does impose limits, and sometimes, we appreciate being the ones to correct our own mistakes. My point is that the answers to this question shouldn't really bo as polarized as they have been.
As for getting into a wet empty parking lot and enjoying some drifts and slides - that is a different story, not about safety or efficiency and effectiveness. It's the only place I turn it off. But I'm still learning.
There is a school of thought that if you are having PSM intervene, you are not driving well. At Porsche driving school, I understand that one of the teachings, demonstrated by the instructors, is that the fastest lap is the most efficient lap, and that is one where you don't slide, and you minimize both over and understeer. That is achieved by perfectly choosing the right line, and employing the right deceleration timing, speed, and acceleration timing. An instructor at the BMW driving course who is a friend of mine has told me that before he learned to drive his Boxster S well, he would notice PSM intervening frequently on the track. Now that his driving skills are at the instructor's level, it hardly does.
It's pretty clear that many people think they are better drivers than they really are. I think that we should all be humble, and rather than assume that PSM is limiting our capabilities, consider the possibility that it is correcting our mistakes. Of course, sometimes PSM does impose limits, and sometimes, we appreciate being the ones to correct our own mistakes. My point is that the answers to this question shouldn't really bo as polarized as they have been.
As for getting into a wet empty parking lot and enjoying some drifts and slides - that is a different story, not about safety or efficiency and effectiveness. It's the only place I turn it off. But I'm still learning.
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
Quote:
Delbox said:
I just completed a 'Porsche Driving Experience' prior to taking delivery of my new 997 C4S; the demonstration of power off oversteer from 50 mph with PSM off, and on, demonstrates clearly that it takes very little mishandling in a relatively benign environment to lose control. There is no way that I will be switching off the PSM!
Agreed. It's like ask professional drivers (ones who know ALOT more than us amateurs) what they would recommend and then do it. Case closed.
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
Quote:
JJBlade said:Quote:
John H said:Quote:
JJBlade said:
Mine is always off. I hate the way it intervenes so every time I get in the car I turn it off.
Tubi Was A Turnoff?
I bet that took you ages to come up with that oh so funny acronym that does not even make sense.
On the contrary it was the first thing I thought of when reading your post!!
As someone who turns PSM off permanently and then drives at 185mph (your photo on another thread) it would appear to perfectly reflect your obvious total lack of respect and consideration for fellow human beings.
So - There We Are Then
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
Quote:
MMD said:
IMO, unless you are on the track there is no good reason to turn PSM off. If you turn it off it must mean you are driving like a dangerous icehole on public streets and your scorn of safety devices also compells you to drive without seatbelts.
Could someone explain the GOOD reasons to turn it off on public streets?
I totally agree. Public street is not a playground for any body.
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
Quote:
John H said:Quote:
JJBlade said:Quote:
John H said:Quote:
JJBlade said:
Mine is always off. I hate the way it intervenes so every time I get in the car I turn it off.
Tubi Was A Turnoff?
I bet that took you ages to come up with that oh so funny acronym that does not even make sense.
On the contrary it was the first thing I thought of when reading your post!!
As someone who turns PSM off permanently and then drives at 185mph (your photo on another thread) it would appear to perfectly reflect your obvious total lack of respect and consideration for fellow human beings.
So - There We Are Then
That says it all really..........
Mar 19, 2006 3:18:59 PM
- Rafael from Spain
- Junior
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- Loc: Madrid, Spain
- Posts: 73, Gallery
- Registered on: May 16, 2005
- Reply to: Taffy
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
Is not that PSM ON = Good to other road users and PSM OFF = TWAT
This is far from reality.
I would like to add two facts:
1. PSM would only intervine when you are not driving correctly!! This can be done by forcing the car to slide (have fun) or not knowing how to drive the thing (talk to any race driver)
2. PSM can save your life when you are not 100% concentrated. So why turn off something that can safe your life when you are not planning to force the car?
And to follow what I said before. I like to disconnect PSM (soon) DSG on my M3 from time to time on well known roads to move the tail a bit, but there is no way PSM will intervine in a Motorway if you are not driving incorrectly (especially in sport mode)
So disconnecting PSM in the city and high speed motorway driving, being a biker or not is just shows you should learn to drive a little bit more.
This is far from reality.
I would like to add two facts:
1. PSM would only intervine when you are not driving correctly!! This can be done by forcing the car to slide (have fun) or not knowing how to drive the thing (talk to any race driver)
2. PSM can save your life when you are not 100% concentrated. So why turn off something that can safe your life when you are not planning to force the car?
And to follow what I said before. I like to disconnect PSM (soon) DSG on my M3 from time to time on well known roads to move the tail a bit, but there is no way PSM will intervine in a Motorway if you are not driving incorrectly (especially in sport mode)
So disconnecting PSM in the city and high speed motorway driving, being a biker or not is just shows you should learn to drive a little bit more.
Mar 19, 2006 4:29:44 PM
- Paul S in TX
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- Reply to: Rafael from Spain
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
I leave PSM on both on the street and on the track. Especially on the track I use it as a guide that tells me--I must have done something wrong at the point it intervened, and use it to learn. And when I'm doing it right, PSM isn't a factor.
I've found a lot of misinformation exists regarding PSM being on--even among the instructor class of drivers. Without question the instructors have lots of experience in Porsches and on the track, but it's usually in older Porsches and they tend to equate PSM with other systems that are more intrusive, like BMW's. And so they tell students, shut it off and this perpetuates the bias/prejudice/strong sentiments you see in this thread.
One final thing, drive your Porsche any way you want, but I save my at the limit adventures for the track--on dry streets, you may want to do an honest re-assessment of your abilities if you're finding PSM intrusive.
I've found a lot of misinformation exists regarding PSM being on--even among the instructor class of drivers. Without question the instructors have lots of experience in Porsches and on the track, but it's usually in older Porsches and they tend to equate PSM with other systems that are more intrusive, like BMW's. And so they tell students, shut it off and this perpetuates the bias/prejudice/strong sentiments you see in this thread.
One final thing, drive your Porsche any way you want, but I save my at the limit adventures for the track--on dry streets, you may want to do an honest re-assessment of your abilities if you're finding PSM intrusive.
Mar 19, 2006 4:40:35 PM
- JJBlade
- Co-Pilot
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- Loc: UK
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- Reply to: Paul S in TX
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
If you want to leave PSM on while on track that is up to you but it would bore me to tears. Maybe I should have bought a GT3 then I would not need to enter this discussion.
In fact if I admitted driving a GT3 on the road without PSM (ie cos it doesn't have it), I wonder if the mass hysteria about child killer,murderer etc etc would exist in that thread
In fact if I admitted driving a GT3 on the road without PSM (ie cos it doesn't have it), I wonder if the mass hysteria about child killer,murderer etc etc would exist in that thread
Mar 19, 2006 6:55:44 PM
- U Boat Commander
- Veteran
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- Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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- Registered on: May 8, 2004
- Reply to: JJBlade
Re: PSM anyone switch it off?
Quote:
JJBlade said:
If you want to leave PSM on while on track that is up to you but it would bore me to tears. Maybe I should have bought a GT3 then I would not need to enter this discussion.
In fact if I admitted driving a GT3 on the road without PSM (ie cos it doesn't have it), I wonder if the mass hysteria about child killer,murderer etc etc would exist in that thread
Exactly! Oh the horror! A 911 without PSM. How can that be safe?
Excuse me, but what a bunch of pansies on this thread (first time 911 owners for sure). It is not unsafe to drive your 997 with the PSM off. Get real. And it is not unsafe to put your 997 into a slide if you know how to recover.
Let's be real here. There was no PSM just a few years ago and it didn't become standard until the 997. And the only reason it is now standard is for liability protection for Porsche (some [censored] lawyer said the 911 was unsafe without it). That's why PSM is in the on position when you start the car. Porsche wants you to make the decision to turn it off.
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