Crown

palenimbus:

RC:

 

 The 130k EUR I do NOT put into the car for the 36 months, I can invest and produce MORE money with them and in 36 months, this is definitely going to be more than 20-25k EUR. Simple equation. 

 

Investing is not a sure thing though, you could lose money, no?

Since 2000, I never had less than 8% profit per year...go figure. 

2011 and 2012 were the best investment years ever...

Of course there is always a possibility of loss but I seem to have a good hand here...  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Budster:

 

OK, I'd misunderstood you on this previously.  But it's still odd - in most VAT jurisdictions you'd still get a deemed VAT deduction if buying a vehicle from someone who wasn't a VAT vendor (if indeed it was VAT deductible).  

Interestingly the reason that double cab pick-ups are popular in SA is that businesses can get a VAT deduction for them, even though they are rarely used for putting anything but the dog and the surf board in the back.

I cannot put the car on the business for various reasons (don't forget that I have a small business only and the Cayenne GTS is already running as a business car, the lease is fully tax deductible over here). So the moment I would buy it privately, the car would "loose" the 19% VAT for potential future business buyers. In this price range, cars are usually bought for businesses and without VAT deductibility, the used car would be actually worth 19% less.  Take export for example: No VAT deductibility, no tax refund.

Many private buyers over here always tend to forget that buying a 200k car privately, automatically "looses" almost 40k EUR VAT. So later on, when you try to sell the car for let's say 130k, you actually get only 90-100k EUR for it because the VAT isn't deductible. Nobody wants to buy such a car over here, unless you find another private person who wants this car but this is very unlikely. I cannot explain it too well in English, sorry about that.

To make it short: A lease is only interesting if you plan to return the car after a fixed period of time. If someone plans to keep the car or isn't sure about it, buying it makes more sense.

Speaking of a lease from a different point of view: Car companies with their own lease financial department usually "hide" very high rebates in the their lease rates to hide them from the competition and especially from the public to avoid devaluing the brand. Just saying...   Buy the car, you get 8%. Lease the car, you get 13%. Just a generic example (not Porsche). In the end, leasing a car will cost you more of course but then, you have capital free for investments and there are no worries involved about resale value or whatever. For me, these are very important points but I understand why others don't agree.

Oh...a last point: Successfully leasing high end cars without any issues for the lease company has a positive impact on my credit rating over here.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I hope it is not a repost. If it is enjoy again

"Form follows function"

More 991 Turbo - Turbo S videos found on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=mSK66K1VWY0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=B1fbDFY8P_E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAIc80XSuEg

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Have you decided on the colour, yet?

"Form follows function"

reginos:

Have you decided on the colour, yet?

Agate grey...so far but I'm still not 100% sure about it.

I watched the videos from Russia and I have to admit that the white car looks quite good too. 

The interior will stay Black/Carrera-red Bi-color but with deviating color (red) for the steering wheel.

A black interior with deviating red stitching would be more to my liking but this isn't available (yet).

I would love to see various exterior and interior colors live on the 991 Turbo or Turbo S but I guess this isn't possible yet. It would help a lot. I even still consider black as an exterior color but so far, I haven't seen any black 991 Turbo/S.  The online configurator really sucks regarding colors.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

If you exclude the two silvers and the white, the choice is either of the two blacks or the agate.

Fourteen colours on the chart but the majority unsuitable for this car.

"Form follows function"

I like white/red; white/expressly; or agate/red. 

And thanks all for lease/buy posts...very helpful...

RC:

More 991 Turbo - Turbo S videos found on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=mSK66K1VWY0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=B1fbDFY8P_E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAIc80XSuEg

 

 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Oh c'mon I've posted these links on page 5 on this thread

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SportCarGroup:

RC:

More 991 Turbo - Turbo S videos found on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=mSK66K1VWY0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=B1fbDFY8P_E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAIc80XSuEg

 

 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Oh c'mon I've posted these links on page 5 on this thread

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Sorry, I overlooked the first and haven't found the other two.  Maybe I'm getting old... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I like the "new" white very much, though, considering that the car what be a DD and due to the always bright and sunny skies in Germany, I would rather give my vote to "agate grey"...

d997h:

I like the "new" white very much, though, considering that the car what be a DD and due to the always bright and sunny skies in Germany, I would rather give my vote to "agate grey"...

No it won't be my daily driver (the Cayenne stays the daily driver) but you are right, a white car may not be the best idea in Germany. Still...I wish I could compare all colors under live conditions. Just as an example: The Agate grey color in the rendering of the online configurator looks almost purple on my monitor. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

palenimbus:

RC:

 

 The 130k EUR I do NOT put into the car for the 36 months, I can invest and produce MORE money with them and in 36 months, this is definitely going to be more than 20-25k EUR. Simple equation. 

 

Investing is not a sure thing though, you could lose money, no?

Since 2000, I never had less than 8% profit per year...go figure. 

2011 and 2012 were the best investment years ever...

Of course there is always a possibility of loss but I seem to have a good hand here...  

Please do not give the impression that it is easy to make minimum 8% a year, because it is not. You did great, but on average this is simply not sustainable. FYI most professional managers would kill to have done 8% minimum per year in large size, especially in 2007 and 2008. But to do that u needed to use shorts or some sophisticated instruments beyond most people confort zone...

SciFrog:

FYI most professional managers would kill to have done 8% minimum per year in large size, especially in 2007 and 2008. But to do that u needed to use shorts or some sophisticated instruments beyond most people confort zone...

I know...I am better (on average) than the whole investment department of my bank over the past 10 years. I just don't have their capital...otherwise I would live in Miami now and enjoy life without a worry.  

This year, I'm a little bit "behind"...only 11%...Apple rained on my parade a little bit.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

And to be clear, what you are doing is not called investing, it is called speculating...

SciFrog:

And to be clear, what you are doing is not called investing, it is called speculating...

Sorry...you are right.  I know I have been lucky so far but my bank guy says that this is impossible since nobody can be that lucky. My strategy seems to work but I do the classic stocks stuff only, I buy and sell stocks, nothing else, no "betting", nothing. Btw: the moment I stopped speculating with equity funds, my profit rose substantially. Equity funds make only the banks rich, at least this is my experience. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

SciFrog:

RC:

palenimbus:

RC:

 The 130k EUR I do NOT put into the car for the 36 months, I can invest and produce MORE money with them and in 36 months, this is definitely going to be more than 20-25k EUR. Simple equation. 

Investing is not a sure thing though, you could lose money, no?

Since 2000, I never had less than 8% profit per year...go figure. 

2011 and 2012 were the best investment years ever...

Of course there is always a possibility of loss but I seem to have a good hand here...  

Please do not give the impression that it is easy to make minimum 8% a year, because it is not. You did great, but on average this is simply not sustainable. FYI most professional managers would kill to have done 8% minimum per year in large size, especially in 2007 and 2008. But to do that u needed to use shorts or some sophisticated instruments beyond most people confort zone...

The one advantage of a lease at least in the US is should the car be involved in a collision you still get the agreed upon residual. That said, I probably will write a check for the GT3 especially if I take delivery this year providing me with a tax deduction opportunity.

Hi Nick--i always enjoy your posts, thanks.

What do you mean when you say buying a GT3 this year gives you a tax deduction opportunity?  You can send a PM if you want...

As a result of Congress passing tax reform in January of 2013 they reinstated the option of using a State sales tax or State income tax to deduct from your federal tax in 2012/2013. Depending on the size of some purchases it might be a benefit to use sales tax over state income tax.

Confused...

SciFrog:

Confused...

The sales tax deduction was eliminate (or expired) and Congress revived it for 2012 2013. Taxpayer has an option of deducting State income tax or sales tax. The IRS uses a chart based on zip code to  determine the amount of sales tax to deduct but also allows additional deduction for large item purchases.

Are you saying that for a specific year you can decide to deduct (from federal) sales tax on items you bought OR your total state income tax?

With the Turbo and Turbo S Coupe released, when we'll see the cabriolets?

nberry:

SciFrog:

RC:

palenimbus:

RC:

 

 The 130k EUR I do NOT put into the car for the 36 months, I can invest and produce MORE money with them and in 36 months, this is definitely going to be more than 20-25k EUR. Simple equation. 

 

Investing is not a sure thing though, you could lose money, no?

Since 2000, I never had less than 8% profit per year...go figure. 

2011 and 2012 were the best investment years ever...

Of course there is always a possibility of loss but I seem to have a good hand here...  

Please do not give the impression that it is easy to make minimum 8% a year, because it is not. You did great, but on average this is simply not sustainable. FYI most professional managers would kill to have done 8% minimum per year in large size, especially in 2007 and 2008. But to do that u needed to use shorts or some sophisticated instruments beyond most people confort zone...

The one advantage of a lease at least in the US is should the car be involved in a collision you still get the agreed upon residual. That said, I probably will write a check for the GT3 especially if I take delivery this year providing me with a tax deduction opportunity.

Why do you want a tax deduction?  I thought you were a proponent of paying higher taxes?

2005 997S Blk/Blk

Yes. You have a choice. Particularly valuable if you have a large purchases like a car, boat jewelry etc.

Alan, you anti-tax crusaders are funny. Because I (as well as many others including Republicans) see societal value in taxes, you and your ilk often resort to the silly and ignorant argument you just posted. It is old, stale and honestly not worthy of your obvious intelligence. 

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nberry:

Yes. You have a choice. Particularly valuable if you have a large purchases like a car, boat jewelry etc.

Alan, you anti-tax crusaders are funny. Because I (as well as many others including Republicans) see societal value in taxes, you and your ilk often resort to the silly and ignorant argument you just posted. It is old, stale and honestly not worthy of your obvious intelligence. 

I see societal value in taxes, also. But I (and many others), believe that, at the moment, taxes and government spending are too high. And have been, for a long time.  So, at least, I'm consistent with my beliefs.

Anyways, this is off-topic.

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2005 997S Blk/Blk

Turbo and Turbo S are amazing cars! But they are too expensive and too fast :) RC - we'll live through you ;)

Btw I found a manual Carerra S faster than PDK (just a feeling I guess) and faster than I will ever need in Canada. But I am not crazy about the looks - it looks VERY DULL... So Porsche does not have me as a buyer of 991...

2012 Cayenne TT, looking for a nice 4-seater sports car to answer my call :)

http://www.bbc.com/autos/story/20130514-speed-evolved-911-turbo-s-vs-959

nberry:

Yes. You have a choice. Particularly valuable if you have a large purchases like a car, boat jewelry etc.

Alan, you anti-tax crusaders are funny. Because I (as well as many others including Republicans) see societal value in taxes, you and your ilk often resort to the silly and ignorant argument you just posted. It is old, stale and honestly not worthy of your obvious intelligence. 

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The use of the words "silly" and "ignorant" are unnecessary (and false) in your reply Nick. This is symptomatic of the argument tactics of the left. You are entitled to your opinion (as are others). Refute what you don’t agree with, but don’t belittle differing opinions that are at the very least, as valid as your own.

Spyderidol:

nberry:

Yes. You have a choice. Particularly valuable if you have a large purchases like a car, boat jewelry etc.

Alan, you anti-tax crusaders are funny. Because I (as well as many others including Republicans) see societal value in taxes, you and your ilk often resort to the silly and ignorant argument you just posted. It is old, stale and honestly not worthy of your obvious intelligence. 

--

 

The use of the words "silly" and "ignorant" are unnecessary (and false) in your reply Nick. This is symptomatic of the argument tactics of the left. You are entitled to your opinion (as are others). Refute what you don’t agree with, but don’t belittle differing opinions that are at the very least, as valid as your own.

C'mon guys, really??? In the 991 Turbo/S thread? 

Back to topic, no more tax and stock market talk, some people may get bored.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4