Crown

cars Ferrari will built. Last year they built 7,318 but he is going to reduce that number to below 7000 but did not say by how much. Apparently, the brand exclusivity is being negatively impacted by the number of cars they are building.

To maintain profitability he will boost high-end customized versions of his vehicles while holding back on availability.

FWIW, the CEO of Lamborghini said the super sport car segment is expecting to slow globally this year.

I would have thought this was a sensible decision, Ferrari had a choice either become a mass market product like Porsche which might please shareholders but will diminish the brand reputation, exclusivity and the residual values of their cars will go down the tubes again as has happened with Porsche or stay exclusive as they have always been. If exclusivity diminishes then those clients who seek that - the majority I would guess - will go elsewhere.

i'm unlikely to ever to be on the fortunate position to buy a Ferrari, so I guess I can be impartial and hope the exclusivity will remain intact.

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Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

Ferrari sharewholders? You mean Fiat and Pierro Ferrari? 

REALZEUS:

Ferrari sharewholders? You mean Fiat and Pierro Ferrari? 

And no doubt the Agnelli family....

Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

I think that is a clever move from LdM:

1. It was about time to stop the growth, where would it have ended?
2. Less than 7.000 seems about right.
3. If sales really will slow down, as Winkelmann is predicting, Ferrari doesn't have to admit it.

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The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Unless it is because I am older but Ferraris made me dream much more when I was a kid. One of the reasons is that they were very very rare. Even going often to Paris nicest districts,  seeing a Ferrari was a hit: a 328 ? Wow this made my day, a mondial? Well it is still a Ferrari. A 412Gt, huh almost never. But when you had the chance to see a THE Testarossa! OMG.! I think I saw just a couple of those.

now it is obviously different....

Mmm I am not saying in was better and nicer in the past ok? I amnot that old ;-)

Fiat is controlled by the Agnellis. So basically it is all between the Agnellis, Piero and Luca who is also a sharewholder. I believe the know what they are doing. Less than 7k units is the right decision IMHO. No need for quanity when you have quality?

PS: Where are those who were speaking of 10,000+ units when the California was introduced? 

I like this a lot! Lets keep this product exclusive. Porsche lost it totally.... nothing special anymore to have a Porsche (certainly, always have been a different league than Ferrari). 

Montezemolo just understands that further growth will also require heavy investment in production facilities and payout only if he rises the numbers strongly which would lack on exclusivity again!

I wonder why knowledgable people about cars keep making parallels between Porsche and Ferrari. Porsche have always been relatively affordable sports/performance cars (with the exception of some models in the range) whereas Ferrari have always been exotics. Remember some older Porsches like the 356, 912,914,924 etc. to realize the humble but solid and honest nature of the marque since the beginning. 

The clientele is also different, excepting some multi-car owners. Not everyone in the market who can afford it, is attracted by the glitz and glamour of exotics. Porsche is for people who want real world performance and impeccable engineering. OTOH, exotics are mostly like trophys for people who want social recognition and display of wealth. This is the typical clientele, no offense to the small minority of some keen drivers who care to drive their cars rather than to display them.

I have owned Porsche for many years and I have never cared about how many units are produced, and what the range is composed of. I enjoy the performance and driving experience immensely and I don't care how  a neighbour or passerby rates the "exclusivity" But I have to admit that some people have their own insecurities 

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"Form follows function"

reginos:

I wonder why knowledgable people about cars keep making parallels between Porsche and Ferrari. Porsche have always been relatively affordable sports/performance cars (with the exception of some models in the range) whereas Ferrari have always been exotics. Remember some older Porsches like the 356, 912,914,924 etc. to realize the humble but solid and honest nature of the marque since the beginning. 

The clientele is also different, excepting some multi-car owners. Not everyone in the market who can afford it, is attracted by the glitz and glamour of exotics. Porsche is for people who want real world performance and impeccable engineering. OTOH, exotics are mostly like trophys for people who want social recognition and display of wealth. This is the typical clientele, no offense to the small minority of some keen drivers who care to drive their cars rather than to display them.

I have owned Porsche for many years and I have never cared about how many units are produced, and what the range is composed of. I enjoy the performance and driving experience immensely and I don't care how  a neighbour or passerby rates the "exclusivity" But I have to admit that some people have their own insecurities 

--

"Form follows function"

I couldn't have said it better myself!

+1 

I wouldn't be so confident about less than 7.000 units, I remember when Montezemolo said Ferrari wouldn't produce more than 5.000 units. Maybe the economy is slowing down in Asia?

I don't think that if Ferrari could shift say, 8,000 units instead of 7.000 throughout the globe, this would harm their exclucivity in any way. On the contrary it would be beneficial for their financial position without making them any less rare.

I suspect that the declared reduced production is just the  number Ferrari could actually sell under the circumstances, and they don't want to admit a fall in sales from one year to the next. Typical LdiM scheming and old Ferrari  tricks!

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"Form follows function"

FWIW, Ferrari's first quarter profits surged 43% to $104,300,000. They will be hiring 250 new employees though the majority will work on building Maserati engines.

LdM past pronouncements have not had much credibility. Time will tell. 

BTW, Reginos generalized comments that Ferrari owners are essentially poseurs is not correct. Many are car enthusiasts and enjoy the Ferrari driving experience.

nberry:

BTW, Reginos generalized comments that Ferrari owners are essentially poseurs is not correct. Many are car enthusiasts and enjoy the Ferrari driving experience.

 

I guess the same accusation could be levied at anyone driving any fast or exclusive car?  But I'm sure the majority of Ferrari owners wold still prefer their pride and joy to remain exclusive and not become "ten-a-penny" like Porsche have become, even if only to preserve residual values by keeping the supply v. demand balance right which Porsche have definitely not.

Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

palenimbus:

I wouldn't be so confident about less than 7.000 units, I remember when Montezemolo said Ferrari wouldn't produce more than 5.000 units. Maybe the economy is slowing down in Asia?

I suspect the same. It would look pretty stupid if they have to announce a drop in sales figures, so announcing a lower production number in advance would be a clever thing to do. Of course this is speculation only.

Speaking of the Porsche vs. Ferrari comparison: I never considered getting a Ferrari for various reasons. I also tend to think that die hard Ferrari owners would never consider buying a Porsche, so I'm not quite sure why people always compare these brands. In Germany, we rather compare Porsche with AMG, BMW M GmbH and Audi's RS/R8 line than with Ferrari and Lamborghini. Maybe I'm wrong but this is how I see things.

This doesn't mean of course that a 991 GT3 or 991 Turbo/Turbo S cannot compete with Ferrari models but I truly think that we are talking about a different type of customer here. One reason I wouldn't get a Ferrari is: It is too flashy, it attracts way too much attention. Second reason: It sucks as a daily driver (incl. maintenance, reliability). These two points are very important for me and quite important for most Porsche owners I know.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I think the success of the MP4-12C has a lot to do with it. McLaren has sold roughly 1700 cars last year, that's 1700 potential 458 sales. Outside of a few that owns both 458 and the MP4-12C, pretty much everyone else decides to buy the McLaren over the Ferrari because it's a better car.

RC:

palenimbus:

I wouldn't be so confident about less than 7.000 units, I remember when Montezemolo said Ferrari wouldn't produce more than 5.000 units. Maybe the economy is slowing down in Asia?

I suspect the same. It would look pretty stupid if they have to announce a drop in sales figures, so announcing a lower production number in advance would be a clever thing to do. Of course this is speculation only.

Speaking of the Porsche vs. Ferrari comparison: I never considered getting a Ferrari for various reasons. I also tend to think that die hard Ferrari owners would never consider buying a Porsche, so I'm not quite sure why people always compare these brands. In Germany, we rather compare Porsche with AMG, BMW M GmbH and Audi's RS/R8 line than with Ferrari and Lamborghini. Maybe I'm wrong but this is how I see things.

This doesn't mean of course that a 991 GT3 or 991 Turbo/Turbo S cannot compete with Ferrari models but I truly think that we are talking about a different type of customer here. One reason I wouldn't get a Ferrari is: It is too flashy, it attracts way too much attention. Second reason: It sucks as a daily driver (incl. maintenance, reliability). These two points are very important for me and quite important for most Porsche owners I know.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Don't forget the most important part, their arrogant salesman and the BS 1-year waiting list with Porsche I can order a 911 + Cayenne and expect both to show up in less than 4 months

nberry:

LdM past pronouncements have not had much credibility. Time will tell. 

BTW, Reginos generalized comments that Ferrari owners are essentially poseurs is not correct. Many are car enthusiasts and enjoy the Ferrari driving experience.

 

 

nberry - Agreed on both counts. Howveevr, credit to Montezemolo for getting Ferrari to where it is today. The quality and useability of the entire range is in a completely different league to even 5 years ago. 

Reginos - trust me there are many many Porsche poseurs here in London. At the same time I agree that as a proportion of the total there is a higher percentage of poseurs amongst the Ferrari drivers.

Whoopsy:

I think the success of the MP4-12C has a lot to do with it. McLaren has sold roughly 1700 cars last year, that's 1700 potential 458 sales. Outside of a few that owns both 458 and the MP4-12C, pretty much everyone else decides to buy the McLaren over the Ferrari because it's a better car.

Gallardo which is as old as sin would maybe make up for those 1700? 

palenimbus:

Whoopsy:

I think the success of the MP4-12C has a lot to do with it. McLaren has sold roughly 1700 cars last year, that's 1700 potential 458 sales. Outside of a few that owns both 458 and the MP4-12C, pretty much everyone else decides to buy the McLaren over the Ferrari because it's a better car.

Gallardo which is as old as sin would maybe make up for those 1700? 

I would add to the F 458 (now almost 4 years old btw), Gallardo as you correctly stated also some Porsche GT customers who might have migrated or could migrate. The main issue I see with McLaren is the lack of dealership coverage which is a limiting factor in converting potential sales into real sales.(Where I live the closest McLaren dealer is 400 Km away) .

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911 Club Coupe, 993 4S Riviera Blau, 12' Audi S4 Avant

RC:

 

Speaking of the Porsche vs. Ferrari comparison: I never considered getting a Ferrari for various reasons. I also tend to think that die hard Ferrari owners would never consider buying a Porsche, so I'm not quite sure why people always compare these brands. In Germany, we rather compare Porsche with AMG, BMW M GmbH and Audi's RS/R8 line than with Ferrari and Lamborghini. Maybe I'm wrong but this is how I see things.

This doesn't mean of course that a 991 GT3 or 991 Turbo/Turbo S cannot compete with Ferrari models but I truly think that we are talking about a different type of customer here. One reason I wouldn't get a Ferrari is: It is too flashy, it attracts way too much attention. Second reason: It sucks as a daily driver (incl. maintenance, reliability). These two points are very important for me and quite important for most Porsche owners I know.

You are very correct in your statements above. I agree 100%. No Ferrari client would care to look at even a Turbo S twice and 99% of long standing Porsche owners wouldn't consider a Ferrari, even if they could afford one. Porsche owners in general don't care too much about image and similarly a SLS AMG owner doesn't feel embarrassed that the "Star" on his car's front can also be found on busses, vans and trucks.

There are true aficionados amongst Ferrari owners, who I respect a lot like all lovers of fine things,  but such people to put it in a rhetorical sense, are the exception that proves the rule.  I have a story on this:  I went with a friend to take delivery of his new F430 Spider in London some years ago. This guy is a long time UK resident and very enthusiastic about the marque and a very good driver. He had a very educated chat with the salesperson and in the end the Ferrari person said: "I am very glad to have met someone who understands Ferrari cars and the first client I have come across who is neither a playboy, a footballer or a rich show-off". Straight from the horse's mouth!

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"Form follows function"

BiTurbo :

Don't forget the most important part, their arrogant salesman and the BS 1-year waiting list with Porsche I can order a 911 + Cayenne and expect both to show up in less than 4 months

Porsche here in the UK have their fair share of arrogant and misinformed salesman - as I know to my personal cost.   Fortunately I have found a dealer a thousand times better which is where we purchased our 997 

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Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

dreamcar:

BiTurbo :

Don't forget the most important part, their arrogant salesman and the BS 1-year waiting list with Porsche I can order a 911 + Cayenne and expect both to show up in less than 4 months

Porsche here in the UK have their fair share of arrogant and misinformed salesman - as I know to my personal cost.   Fortunately I have found a dealer a thousand times better which is where we purchased our 997 

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Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

Agreed!

Porsche nowadays doesn't care about old customers, all they want is for you to pay up and shut up which will push me to look into other brands in the future, such as Lamborghini which has been giving me big discounts which Porsche failed to do so on my last 3 special order cars.

m4ever:

palenimbus:

Whoopsy:

I think the success of the MP4-12C has a lot to do with it. McLaren has sold roughly 1700 cars last year, that's 1700 potential 458 sales. Outside of a few that owns both 458 and the MP4-12C, pretty much everyone else decides to buy the McLaren over the Ferrari because it's a better car.

Gallardo which is as old as sin would maybe make up for those 1700? 

I would add to the F 458 (now almost 4 years old btw), Gallardo as you correctly stated also some Porsche GT customers who might have migrated or could migrate. The main issue I see with McLaren is the lack of dealership coverage which is a limiting factor in converting potential sales into real sales.(Where I live the closest McLaren dealer is 400 Km away) .

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911 Club Coupe, 993 4S Riviera Blau, 12' Audi S4 Avant

My McLaren dealer is 5hrs PLANE RIDE away................ At least they got a local salesperson that I can bug.

As old as the Gallardo is, they really don't steal any customers from anyone, all those that wanted one already have one or 2 or 3 facelifts already. McLaren might have stolen a few from potential Gallardo sales but the main target was and is still the 458 and it is doing a plenty good job is putting out a better product. 

Porsche really don't have anything yet in that price bracket, aside from Gallardo and 458, the only other car in the same bracket would be the Bentley GT but that car is so soft it really isn't targeting the same segment.

R8 'could' be counted but it there is still a gap in pricing so it's more for those who cannot afford Gallardo. 

BiTurbo :Agreed!

Porsche nowadays doesn't care about old customers, all they want is for you to pay up and shut up which will push me to look into other brands in the future, such as Lamborghini which has been giving me big discounts which Porsche failed to do so on my last 3 special order cars.

Sadly, you are right, and here in the UK Porsche owned dealerships have an even worse reputation. A old friend of mine who spent serious money on a new 997 turbo a few years ago was shockingly treated by the Porsche owned dealership where he bought his car...

The superb way our local Toyota dealer has been over the purchase and after sales of my cheap-as-chips Toyota Clockwork Rat has been a sad contrast to the Porsche dealer who sold us our new Cayman back in 2010 and couldn't have cared less when it all went wrong......

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Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

@dreamcar:  Is there a frequent turnover a car salesmen in these dealerships? Because, in cars and luxury goods in general, stability works in favour of both the dealer and the customer.

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"Form follows function"

reginos:

@dreamcar:  Is there a frequent turnover a car salesmen in these dealerships? Because, in cars and luxury goods in general, stability works in favour of both the dealer and the customer.

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"Form follows function"

When I first dealt with that garage (OPC Bournemouth) they were a small independent firm whose owner, Brian Deeks,  was there all the time. If he saw someone in the showroom that wasn't being attended to he used to storm into the salesmens office and said "if I have to deal with customers I don't need you". He was first class and new all of his customers by name. He also always thanked customers personally when they placed an order and always saw them on collection day. He sold out to Inchape Group and retired and the garage went straight down the tubes. Salesman didn't care, those that were there had zero product knowledge and goodwill vanished.

I now deal with OPC Swindon, family owned and part of the Dick Lovett Group. Knowledgeable, professional staff, just like Bournemouth used to be.

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Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

There is no substitute for the personal touch in business.

"Form follows function"

BiTurbo:

Porsche nowadays doesn't care about old customers, all they want is for you to pay up and shut up which will push me to look into other brands in the future, such as Lamborghini which has been giving me big discounts which Porsche failed to do so on my last 3 special order cars.

Big discounts? Well, it depends on the market. In Germany, people can expect up to 11% for a 991 at their local dealer, the same for a Cayenne GTS or Turbo (not that much for a Diesel/S) and the Panamera fuel operated models.

For the 991 Turbo S, I have figures between 5-7% but it really depends on the dealer.

More? Well...there are independent dealers who may offer more but I want to support the local Porsche dealership because when I have issues with the car, it is him I expect to fix. 

I don't know about the rebates in other countries but it really depends on the market and the specific model. 

This isn't always Porsche's fault (well, maybe a little bit since they seem to offer less incentives to dealers), there are also many dealers who don't want to give a rebate out of principle. Especially if they have more customers than available cars. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

reginos:

There is no substitute for the personal touch in business.

Absolutely correct, and invariably missing when dealing with a large organisation

Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"