Crown

Also, the car will be shown at the New York auto show next month.

YOu might get certain Ferrari models far easier these days than a new GT3  Those models are dogs.

Nick,

 I am not sure if your ordering a Porsche GT3 signals that you need congratulations......... or a "intervention"

Has San Diego not reached its maximum allowable density of white 911's yet? Or is this just a trick to get front door parking at another of  Mitts Utah style Halal BBQs?

All in all, I hope it arrives for you sooner than later. Good luck!

sidicks:

 

Does anyone know the size of the fuel tank in the GT3 (UK version)?

Thanks

Sidicks

Here are the details . Note that the tank is smaller then on 997 , and that US version can now order 90 liter tank

(RoW/USA/left-hand drive) (19.8 imp gal; 23.8 US g  997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

nberry:

Also, the car will be shown at the New York auto show next month.

YOu might get certain Ferrari models far easier these days than a new GT3  Those models are dogs.

 if you are not set on specific options on the 458  you can have it immediatly 

--

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Milanno:

 

In blue with wheels; mirrors & wing edge in green; roof & wing top in black.

 

 Looks good , but this is getting into RS territory 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Gnil:

Milanno:

 

In blue with wheels; mirrors & wing edge in green; roof & wing top in black.

 

 

 Looks good , but this is getting into RS territory 

The question is, will YOU be getting into RS territory?

Porker:

Gnil:

 Looks good , but this is getting into RS territory 

The question is, will YOU be getting into RS territory?

If it comes with green rims, I will have to 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

fritz:

The seats actually use real carbon fibre, so they don't qualify for the description "pseudo carbon fibre". 

They cannot be raised on their runners without invalidating their Type Approval, so both the factory and the dealer will not undertake to do it. There might be some scope for increasing the thickness of the seat cushion to achieve a slight increase in height.

--

fritz

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The bucket seats available as an option for the 991 GT3 are called “Sports bucket seats”.  They are NOT made of carbon fiber.  They must not be confused with the truly carbon-fiber seats, called “Lightweight bucket seats”.  The latter, which were carried over from the Carrera GT, are no longer offered on the 991, apparently due to homologation issues, as Mr. Preuninger told Evo.

In terms of weight saving, the Sports bucket seats implied a 14kg saving on the standard 997 seats, and the Lightweight bucket seats a further 10kg weight saving on the standard 997 seats.

The difference amounts to the same as having a golden ring made of solid gold and a pseudo-gold ring made of metal with a gold plating.

It is true though that many journalists too hastily described the sports bucket seats as “carbon-fiber seats”, but Porsche has been clear and is not responsible for deceiving the public as to the composition of the seat.

Below are two quotes from 997.2 GT3 & GT3 RS brochure for reference regarding the two types of seats:

“Sports bucket seats.  Optional for the 911 GT3 and standard in the new 911 GT3 RS are the sports bucket seats with folding backrest, integrated thorax airbag and manual adjustment of the fore/aft position. The seat shell is made from glass/carbonfibre- reinforced plastic with a carbon-weave finish. The backrest pivots are positioned high in the side bolsters to provide characteristic lateral support in the lumbar area. In the 911 GT3 the standard trim is black leather with an Alcantara centre. Standard in the new 911 GT3 RS and the 911 GT3 in conjunction with the Clubsport package, the sports bucket seats”.

“Lightweight bucket seats.     Also available as an option for the new 911 GT3 are lightweight carbon-fibre bucket seats. They are designed to provide exceptional side support with minimal weight. Instead of a thorax airbag, the door panels are padded in place of the door storage compartment. Together the lightweight bucket seats weigh around 20 kg and are therefore almost 24 kg lighter than the sports seats and approximately 10 kg lighter than the sports bucket seats. In conjunction with the Clubsport package, the lightweight bucket seats are covered in flame-retardant fabric. A special feature in the new 911 GT3 RS is the red ‘RS 3.8’ logo on the headrests.”

nberry:

Also, the car will be shown at the New York auto show next month.

YOu might get certain Ferrari models far easier these days than a new GT3  Those models are dogs.

Hope we get to see it in another shade of color

PBS2010:

fritz:

The seats actually use real carbon fibre, so they don't qualify for the description "pseudo carbon fibre". 

They cannot be raised on their runners without invalidating their Type Approval, so both the factory and the dealer will not undertake to do it. There might be some scope for increasing the thickness of the seat cushion to achieve a slight increase in height.

fritz++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The bucket seats available as an option for the 991 GT3 are called “Sports bucket seats”.  They are NOT made of carbon fiber.  They must not be confused with the truly carbon-fiber seats, called “Lightweight bucket seats”.  The latter, which were carried over from the Carrera GT, are no longer offered on the 991, apparently due to homologation issues, as Mr. Preuninger told Evo.

In terms of weight saving, the Sports bucket seats implied a 14kg saving on the standard 997 seats, and the Lightweight bucket seats a further 10kg weight saving on the standard 997 seats.

The difference amounts to the same as having a golden ring made of solid gold and a pseudo-gold ring made of metal with a gold plating.

It is true though that many journalists too hastily described the sports bucket seats as “carbon-fiber seats”, but Porsche has been clear and is not responsible for deceiving the public as to the composition of the seat.

Below are two quotes from 997.2 GT3 & GT3 RS brochure for reference regarding the two types of seats:

“Sports bucket seats.  Optional for the 911 GT3 and standard in the new 911 GT3 RS are the sports bucket seats with folding backrest, integrated thorax airbag and manual adjustment of the fore/aft position. The seat shell is made from glass/carbonfibre- reinforced plastic with a carbon-weave finish. The backrest pivots are positioned high in the side bolsters to provide characteristic lateral support in the lumbar area. In the 911 GT3 the standard trim is black leather with an Alcantara centre. Standard in the new 911 GT3 RS and the 911 GT3 in conjunction with the Clubsport package, the sports bucket seats”.

“Lightweight bucket seats.     Also available as an option for the new 911 GT3 are lightweight carbon-fibre bucket seats. They are designed to provide exceptional side support with minimal weight. Instead of a thorax airbag, the door panels are padded in place of the door storage compartment. Together the lightweight bucket seats weigh around 20 kg and are therefore almost 24 kg lighter than the sports seats and approximately 10 kg lighter than the sports bucket seats. In conjunction with the Clubsport package, the lightweight bucket seats are covered in flame-retardant fabric. A special feature in the new 911 GT3 RS is the red ‘RS 3.8’ logo on the headrests.”

The above tells me that the Sports bucket seats whilst "only" constructed from "glass/carbon fibre reinforced plastic" are still a desirable option since they shave a hefty 14kg from the standard seats which is very worthwhile and validates any implied weight saving by fitting the carbon fibre look alikey Sport Buckets 

Edit - actually I'm pretty impressed how light the standard seat is at 22kg ea, this is pretty light for an electric motor seat 

3.9  GT2 2011 make over

PBS2010:

fritz:

The seats actually use real carbon fibre, so they don't qualify for the description "pseudo carbon fibre". 

fritz

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The bucket seats available as an option for the 991 GT3 are called “Sports bucket seats”.  They are NOT made of carbon fiber.  They must not be confused with the truly carbon-fiber seats, called “Lightweight bucket seats”.  The latter, which were carried over from the Carrera GT, are no longer offered on the 991, apparently due to homologation issues, as Mr. Preuninger told Evo.

It is true though that many journalists too hastily described the sports bucket seats as “carbon-fiber seats”, but Porsche has been clear and is not responsible for deceiving the public as to the composition of the seat.

Below are two quotes from 997.2 GT3 & GT3 RS brochure for reference regarding the two types of seats:

“Sports bucket seats.  Optional for the 911 GT3 and standard in the new 911 GT3 RS are the sports bucket seats with folding backrest, integrated thorax airbag and manual adjustment of the fore/aft position. The seat shell is made from glass/carbonfibre- reinforced plastic with a carbon-weave finish. 

On the one hand you say that the Sports Bucket Seat is not made of carbon fibre and on the other you quote a Porsche publication as your evidence which expressly states that "The seat shell is made from glass/carbonfibre-reinforced plastic with a carbon-weave finish", yet you don't appear to realise that this statement does not support your claim?

The outwardly visible carbon weave layer of the seat shell is made of real carbon fibre and is an integral part of the seat shell moulding and significantly contributes to its structural strength. The original German text which has been translated above as "carbon-weave finish" described the shell's visible surface as being "in Sichtcarbon ausgeführt", that is "executed in visible carbon", with no suggestion that this is just an otherwise non-functional "finish" layer for optical purposes.

"Pseudo carbon fibre" finishes on the other hand are plastic films (vinyl?) printed to look like carbon fibre to make cheaper parts look like the real thing. The simulated carbon appearance of these films does not materially add anything to the strength of the components. 

fritz

I now understand, it's a "genuine faux finish".....

JimFlat6:

Nick,

 I am not sure if your ordering a Porsche GT3 signals that you need congratulations......... or a "intervention"

Has San Diego not reached its maximum allowable density of white 911's yet? Or is this just a trick to get front door parking at another of  Mitts Utah style Halal BBQs?

All in all, I hope it arrives for you sooner than later. Good luck!

 

Jim, I always liked the GT3 for reasons I stated earlier. My problem with the car was the harsh ride necessitated by the track set up. Also the lack of PDK. Now that Porsche has resolved those issues, it was time to buy one. I am not getting any younger and I intend to make the most of the car which may include some track time. I might consider "gunning" the engine a few times in front of Mitt's house.

My dealer seems confident I can get the car before the end of the year. Let's hope so. I have a Ferrari dealership dangling a used 458 in front of me which I am presently resisting. At this stage, I prefer the GT3.

fritz:

 

On the one hand you say that the Sports Bucket Seat is not made of carbon fibre and on the other you quote a Porsche publication as your evidence which expressly states that "The seat shell is made from glass/carbonfibre-reinforced plastic with a carbon-weave finish", yet you don't appear to realise that this statement does not support your claim?

The outwardly visible carbon weave layer of the seat shell is made of real carbon fibre and is an integral part of the seat shell moulding and significantly contributes to its structural strength. The original German text which has been translated above as "carbon-weave finish" described the shell's visible surface as being "in Sichtcarbon ausgeführt", that is "executed in visible carbon", with no suggestion that this is just an otherwise non-functional "finish" layer for optical purposes.

"Pseudo carbon fibre" finishes on the other hand are plastic films (vinyl?) printed to look like carbon fibre to make cheaper parts look like the real thing. The simulated carbon appearance of these films does not materially add anything to the strength of the components. 

 

Why do you always have to right?  

I checked with one of our sources today and he confirms what you said (he read it). 

Just learned something new...thanks.   

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

GTlover:

KresoF1:

I think that all of you need to see what will HvS achieve on the Ring. First tests will be in Sport Auto in September issue. Supertest will follow later...

Li-ion battery can not meet demands that new networked system needed(PDK, rear wheel steering, PTV with new electronic diff etc).

BTW, what does 10kg means anyway? Imagine if one driver is 65kg and is less skilled then 90kg driver-who will be faster on the Ring?

Hugh..Supertest so far away.,..why?

What are you trying to say? - that Porsche will ask Mr HvS to go on diat just because of the 991 GT3 supertest..I mean how can you be so sure what time he will achieve..? as I said - and just observation so far - factory claims and Sport Auto tests differ roughly by 6 seconds. Why should it be different this time..

Battery/ 10/Kg, fully agree..ar what if Mr HvS meets the evening before the test a nice blonde girl in the Hotel..the next morning he will wake up late..and screw up the Supertest....I mean, so many things can happen that we cannot control..

Thanks for the info..

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I understand that the RWS adds a drain on the batteries.  I wrote earlier that I believed a company such as Porsche can figure it out and adapt the Li-ion battery to address the new need.

Also, we have noted the comment made subsequently by the factory announcing that the Li-ion battery will be available on the GT3 and GT3 RS.

The absence of the Li-ion battery on the configurator at the moment leads me to the following thoughts:

• Either Porsche (and its supplier) are not ready now, which is not a big deal so long the Li-ion battery becomes available at the time production starts, i.e, by this summer.  After all, the 991 GT3 displayed in Geneva was a show car.  It becomes a bigger deal, however, if the item is ready after the production starts, because the first customers will lose (check out how much your dealer charges to have it it fitted on your current car) and our beloved manufacturer will lose some of its technical credibility, which is bad on such a special product as the GT3;  or
• Porsche is ready now or will be by the time the GT3 production starts.  However, they want to hold the news on the Li-ion battery for marketing reasons, in order to sell it with the announcement of the RS by the end of this year/early next year.  The Li-ion battery would thus become available after the RS announcement.  From a marketing standpoint, since the GT3 has been positioned as a more all-round car than its predecessor, the RS will pick-up the greater challenge to be more radical, and more lightweight.  I cannot imagine an RS version not substantially lighter than the GT3.  Porsche has already announced that the RS will have PDK.  So dropping the PDK to save 30kg or so is not an option.  Porsche will have to be quite imaginative.  They have already stated dismissively that greater use of aluminum or other special products had a marginal weight-saving impact and a substantial impact driving prices upwards.  May be not such a great idea in today’s economy.

I am afraid option No. 2 becomes reality.  Imagine: the RWS demands a bigger battery.  So the 991 GT3 battery must be heavier than the 997’s.  On the 997, the Li-ion battery saved about 10kg and therefore will save even more on the 991.  Bucket seats + Li-ion battery:  bingo, 30kg gone.  Add a titanium exhaust to offset the weight of the roll-cage and a few more weight saving measures, and the deal is closed.

What do you think?

nberry:

 

Jim, I always liked the GT3 for reasons I stated earlier. My problem with the car was the harsh ride necessitated by the track set up. Also the lack of PDK. Now that Porsche has resolved those issues,

Why should the ride of the 991GT3 be more comfortable than that of the 997GT3? I would not expect this to happen.

Fritz,
From a strength point of view, look at it this way:
A buddy of mine used to like (I am ashamed to say) these "fast & Furious" kind of cars.
So, he bought a "Carbon Fibre" engine lid. When I looked closer on the inside, I saw that it was a Glass Fibre hood, covered with one layer of CFRP weave.
This is REAL carbon fibre, but to say that the engine lid is made out of CFRP is stretching the truth. Therefore, I understand PMS2010's statement of "Pseudo CFRP". However, there is one level even more Pseudo; the one where even the layer of CFRP is no carbon, but just a plastic film that looks like carbon weave

So,

• the Lightweight bucket seats are full CFRP -> -24kg
• the Sports bucket seats are Glass Fibre / CFRP ->-14kg
• Sports seats -> -0kg

Right?

Joost:

Fritz,
From a strength point of view, look at it this way:
A buddy of mine used to like (I am ashamed to say) these "fast & Furious" kind of cars.
So, he bought a "Carbon Fibre" engine lid. When I looked closer on the inside, I saw that it was a Glass Fibre hood, covered with one layer of CFRP weave.
This is REAL carbon fibre, but to say that the engine lid is made out of CFRP is stretching the truth. Therefore, I understand PMS2010's statement of "Pseudo CFRP". However, there is one level even more Pseudo; the one where even the layer of CFRP is no carbon, but just a plastic film that looks like carbon weave

So,

• the Lightweight bucket seats are full CFRP -> -24kg
• the Sports bucket seats are Glass Fibre / CFRP ->-14kg
• Sports seats -> -0kg

Right?

Actually, your resumé is not right. Comparing the weights of the new bucket seat and the Sports Bucket Seat to try to arrive at some conclusions relating to their respective usage of composite materials is like comparing apples and oranges.

Unlike the one piece shell of the bucket seat, the Sports Bucket Seat has a back which can be tilted forward to allow access to the rear of the car, so much of the weight difference between these two seats is due to the hinges, locks and release mechanisms required to allow the seat to tilt as well as the additional composite material required to adequately anchor these items into the two parts of the shell and to stiffen the mating edges of these two shells to provide adequate rigidity. More weight is accounted for by the fact that the Sports Bucket seat has a thorax air bag unit, which is completely omitted from the lightweight bucket seat.
The Sports Bucket also makes more concessions to everyday comfort, rather than just being an uncompromising track car seat, which will surely have resulted in more weight for the cushions and trim material used.

As you will now realise, the weight difference is far from being simply due to the materials used in the shells. There are many instances of composite plastic components using materials other than just carbon fibre to make up and to optimise the structure of the complete part, including Kevlar, honeycomb, rigid foams, and metal bobbins and inserts at various hard points. Including Formula 1 car cockpits, for example. No one would dream of using the term "pseudo carbon fibre" to describe them as a result of this material mix, and that is what this discussion is about. 

If I remember correctly, you are involved in aeronautics so you will be able to relate to this item: 
I understand that each Boeing 787 is said by Boeing to contain 35 short tons of carbon fibre reinforced plastics, but only 23 short tons of actual carbon fibre material are used per aircraft. 
That's why the materials are called composites. 

fritz

fritz:More weight is accounted for by the fact that the Sports Bucket seat has a thorax air bag unit, which is completely omitted from the lightweight bucket seat.

I believe this is the reason they could not homologate the lightweight bucket seats for the 991GT3.

MKSGR:

nberry:

 

Jim, I always liked the GT3 for reasons I stated earlier. My problem with the car was the harsh ride necessitated by the track set up. Also the lack of PDK. Now that Porsche has resolved those issues,

Why should the ride of the 991GT3 be more comfortable than that of the 997GT3? I would not expect this to happen.

In the lengthy interview with Evo, Porsche spokesman claim the 991GT3 is more comfortable for daily use. From that I extrapolated that changes had been made from previous models. Am I wrong?

nberry:

MKSGR:

nberry:

 

Jim, I always liked the GT3 for reasons I stated earlier. My problem with the car was the harsh ride necessitated by the track set up. Also the lack of PDK. Now that Porsche has resolved those issues,

Why should the ride of the 991GT3 be more comfortable than that of the 997GT3? I would not expect this to happen.

In the lengthy interview with Evo, Porsche spokesman claim the 991GT3 is more comfortable for daily use. From that I extrapolated that changes had been made from previous models. Am I wrong?

If I had to guess they probably felt it was more comfortable for daily use given the PDK gearbox and maybe also the more cosy looking interior. In fact, the 997GT3 does not have an unreasonably harsh ride. In normal mode the car rides quite nicely - no need to worry. Even if the 991GT3 would be very similar in this category, the new GT3 would be very acceptable as a daily driver 

MKSGR:

nberry:

MKSGR:

nberry:

 

Jim, I always liked the GT3 for reasons I stated earlier. My problem with the car was the harsh ride necessitated by the track set up. Also the lack of PDK. Now that Porsche has resolved those issues,

Why should the ride of the 991GT3 be more comfortable than that of the 997GT3? I would not expect this to happen.

In the lengthy interview with Evo, Porsche spokesman claim the 991GT3 is more comfortable for daily use. From that I extrapolated that changes had been made from previous models. Am I wrong?

If I had to guess they probably felt it was more comfortable for daily use given the PDK gearbox and maybe also the more cosy looking interior. In fact, the 997GT3 does not have an unreasonably harsh ride. In normal mode the car rides quite nicely - no need to worry. Even if the 991GT3 would be very similar in this category, the new GT3 would be very acceptable as a daily driver 

Also based on what people say about the sports suspension in the 991 Carrera indicates that the ride, even if as firm as before, is more ' confortable' as it seems the PASM workes better on absorbing the uneven surfaces.  So, probably the suspension of the GR3 991 in normal mode does also ' feel more confortable' then before

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Congrats Nick!

An upgraded exhaust would be a proper mod for such a high revving engine

Ha Fritz,

Thanks for your in-depth reply! With my summary, I wasn't meaning to say though that the weight loss was reached by material choice only, just pointing out which seat is what and how much weight it saved.
Thanks again,

-Joost-

That is good to know. Since the majority of the time the car will be driven on public streets at reasonable speeds, the last thing I need is a jarring ride.

Bi Turbo, I am assuming the OEM exhaust will satisfy me. The exhaust sound of the car on the track appears to be very aggressive.

Let's hope it sounds even better than 991 S with PSE

Gnil:

MKSGR:

nberry:

MKSGR:

nberry:

 

Jim, I always liked the GT3 for reasons I stated earlier. My problem with the car was the harsh ride necessitated by the track set up. Also the lack of PDK. Now that Porsche has resolved those issues,

Why should the ride of the 991GT3 be more comfortable than that of the 997GT3? I would not expect this to happen.

In the lengthy interview with Evo, Porsche spokesman claim the 991GT3 is more comfortable for daily use. From that I extrapolated that changes had been made from previous models. Am I wrong?

If I had to guess they probably felt it was more comfortable for daily use given the PDK gearbox and maybe also the more cosy looking interior. In fact, the 997GT3 does not have an unreasonably harsh ride. In normal mode the car rides quite nicely - no need to worry. Even if the 991GT3 would be very similar in this category, the new GT3 would be very acceptable as a daily driver 

Also based on what people say about the sports suspension in the 991 Carrera indicates that the ride, even if as firm as before, is more ' confortable' as it seems the PASM workes better on absorbing the uneven surfaces.  So, probably the suspension of the GR3 991 in normal mode does also ' feel more confortable' then before

The 911 has a new chassis which is completely different to the 997 / 996. This combined with the other features make it ride much better than the 997.