Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN - Page21

Jan 24, 2013 12:36:20 AM

CPA4S: Senior; Loc: Ottawa area - Canada , Canada; Posts: 511, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2007; Reply to: RC

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

RC:

CPA4S:

i read somewhere that US, well really California, diesel reg's converge with the Euro diesiel rules so i don't expect to see much activity in NA for a few years yet.

Porsche already sells the Cayenne Diesel in North America, also various other manufacturers like BMW or Mercedes offer Diesel models for the NA market. California? Well...it is a big market but considering the remaining US, not so much.

Below isn't the particular mag i read that flagged the issue, got this from a quick search - comment by Peter Marks head of Bosch.

Marks expects that automakers will double the amount of diesel-equipped models offered in the United States from 20 today to 40 by 2015. Helping diesel’s growth in the U.S. are stricter EU regulations for diesel emissions that go into effect over the next few years. Today, the United States has the strictest emission standards for diesel passenger vehicles in the world, which makes it expensive for manufacturers to certify diesel engines for sale in the United States. As emission regulations in the U.S., and the EU become more similar, the cost of offering diesel options for U.S. customers will go down.

--

2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold / 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual /2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold

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Feb 25, 2013 9:47:36 AM

olli: Pilot; Loc: Germany; Posts: 418, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 24, 2006; Reply to: CPA4S

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

A P-source has just told me that the Macan may not be presented at the Frankfurt Car Show IAA in September. Porsche apparantly want to focus attention on the 50th anniversary of 911 and the new 991 Turbo, etc.

The Macan could be shown at the subsequent Los Angeles Car Show instead...

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Feb 25, 2013 12:09:57 PM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

RC:

Of course Macan buyers won't be all low(er) income customers ...

Depends on your perspective of course. Smiley In reality there will be virtually no lower income buyers of the Macan. Those buyers typically buy used cars or Hyundai. And really, very few middle income buyers either. Even at 45k this is a vehicle aimed mostly at upper income customers. Even among upper income groups many will choose something like a Buick or Suburban because they want to keep a low profile, not flaunt their wealth.

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Feb 25, 2013 3:38:39 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59606, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

GM Austin:

RC:

Of course Macan buyers won't be all low(er) income customers ...

Depends on your perspective of course. In reality there will be virtually no lower income buyers of the Macan. Those buyers typically buy used cars or Hyundai. And really, very few middle income buyers either. Even at 45k this is a vehicle aimed mostly at upper income customers. Even among upper income groups many will choose something like a Buick or Suburban because they want to keep a low profile, not flaunt their wealth.

Maybe in the US (I really don't have a clue about buyers in the US) but in Europe, things look a little bit different.

This is why dealers fear used Macan buyers because after used Macan drop below a certain price limit (I would say it is 30-40k EUR in Germany), a completely different customer type will be interested too. I would call it lower middle class but I have a customer who works as a lifeguard (he has no school education, nothing) and he drives a used old generation Cayenne S. He bought this car for 22k EUR and just told me lately that he cannot afford the next maintenance. Smiley In winter, he barely drove it because he couldn't afford a winter wheel set. Not even a used one. He talks a lot to me about his car because he bought it because of me (he always saw my Cayenne in front of the business). These are the customers dealers are afraid of...

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

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Feb 25, 2013 5:09:40 PM

WAY: Rennteam Master; Loc: Melbourne, Australia; Posts: 3344, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

Due to the cost of cars in Australia, used Macan isn't going to be the domain of lower income earners. Same with across Asia. In US and Europe where cars are much cheaper, I can see this happening.

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Feb 25, 2013 11:15:11 PM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

RC:

GM Austin:

RC:

Of course Macan buyers won't be all low(er) income customers ...

Depends on your perspective of course. In reality there will be virtually no lower income buyers of the Macan. Those buyers typically buy used cars or Hyundai. And really, very few middle income buyers either. Even at 45k this is a vehicle aimed mostly at upper income customers. Even among upper income groups many will choose something like a Buick or Suburban because they want to keep a low profile, not flaunt their wealth.

Maybe in the US (I really don't have a clue about buyers in the US) but in Europe, things look a little bit different.

This is why dealers fear used Macan buyers because after used Macan drop below a certain price limit (I would say it is 30-40k EUR in Germany), a completely different customer type will be interested too. I would call it lower middle class but I have a customer who works as a lifeguard (he has no school education, nothing) and he drives a used old generation Cayenne S. He bought this car for 22k EUR and just told me lately that he cannot afford the next maintenance. In winter, he barely drove it because he couldn't afford a winter wheel set. Not even a used one. He talks a lot to me about his car because he bought it because of me (he always saw my Cayenne in front of the business). These are the customers dealers are afraid of...

I had in mind the market for new Macans, but I think that's a fair point for the used market. But it's no different than its ever been. In my local Porsche club there are several middle income owners that have purchased used 944's, Boxsters and even older 911's. But, because of the maintenance cost, I believe the middle income Porsche owner has to really, really want a Porsche, like the ones I see in the Porsche club. I see some of them doing their own maintenance or just not driving them so much in order to keep the costs down. I'm not sure the non-enthusiast will tolerate the maintenance cost of a used Macan. I mean, if you can't use it as a daily driver it sort of defeats it's intended purpose.

BTW, why is the dealer afraid of those customers? Smiley

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Mar 2, 2013 9:43:47 AM

Boxster Coupe GTS: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 5886, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2005; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

Porsche Macan mule winter testing video...

Porsche Macan mule winter testing video -- Autobild Link

Smiley Smiley Smiley

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Mar 2, 2013 9:49:17 AM

993Targa: Rennteam Pro; Loc: ZH , Switzerland; Posts: 2522, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 16, 2004; Reply to: Boxster Coupe GTS

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

160HP Diesel mail

--

2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso

Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2

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Mar 3, 2013 1:13:56 PM

KMM: Expert; Loc: Boston, MA , United States; Posts: 1745, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 5, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

RC:

[..]

The Macan is the bread and butter model (or will be, right now it is the Boxster), maybe we should discuss what "bread & butter (for me, it means cheapest model for low(er) incomes) means. Of course Macan buyers won't be all low(er) income customers and I am pretty sure that the most expensive Macan model (Turbo?) could be optioned up to 100k EUR and maybe more but I'm afraid the best selling Porsche Macan will be the least powerful Diesel because many customers will go for the brand because of the sporty image.

[...]

Huh? In the US, the least expensive way to get a Porsche badge (new) is a V6 Cayenne ($48,850). The base Boxster is several hundred more). This whole focus on incomes and price points while discussing cars in totally different segments makes zero sense to me.

I've been looking at a Q5 or X3 to replace my daily driver for over a year now. I don't like the overdone grille of the Q5, nor it's A4-ish interior (as opposed to Audi's newer A6/A7/A8 interior design). The X3 is severely overstyled imho, with the bashed in rear-in design and the gratuitous scalloping of the side panels. And the interior quality is no longer up to the standard of my current BMW. I have zero interest in a full-size SUV like the X5 or Cayenne (still don't understand what Porsche was trying to do with those oversized tail lights...)

So the Macan would be perfect for me if it has clean styling (likely, given Porsche new designs), good quality materials inside, and decent performance. And you can bet I would not care about spending an extra $15K-$20K if I could find what I'm looking for.

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Mar 3, 2013 1:28:39 PM

KMM: Expert; Loc: Boston, MA , United States; Posts: 1745, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 5, 2004; Reply to: vtrader

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

vtrader:
In the old days, half of Porsche's output went to Southern California, we had dealers in almost every city. Then the rest of the world discovered Porsche.

--

Porsche owner since 1975.

I thought that's because, in the old days, they had a tendency to turn into rust buckets, unless they lived in Southern California Smiley

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Mar 4, 2013 5:07:01 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59606, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: 993Targa

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

993Targa:

160HP Diesel

Don't take AutoBILD too seriously, I heard that the smallest Turbodiesel gets 180-200 hp.

The top Diesel engine will also have more than 300 hp.. Smiley

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

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Mar 4, 2013 5:24:21 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

The Audi Diesel starts from 175HP. Logically the Macan will be 20-25HP extra.

--

"Form follows function"

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Mar 4, 2013 7:28:26 PM

Enzo II: Veteran; Loc: Spain , Spain; Posts: 1248, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 1, 2006; Reply to: reginos

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

At least in Spain, the Audi starts from 143 hp 2.0 TDI

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Mar 4, 2013 7:35:41 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Enzo II

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

I think that is the front wheel drive model, that some markets don't get.

--

"Form follows function"

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Mar 4, 2013 8:03:04 PM

Enzo II: Veteran; Loc: Spain , Spain; Posts: 1248, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 1, 2006; Reply to: reginos

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

You are right. But the 143hp is also available with 4WD

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Mar 4, 2013 8:13:38 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Enzo II

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

Anyway, I hope the Macan will be above the top 2.0 TDI from Audi (175 HP), if anything to justify the name and the price difference.

--

"Form follows function"

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Mar 5, 2013 9:05:04 PM

ALDO: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany, Black Forrest , Germany; Posts: 3078, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

RC:

993Targa:

160HP Diesel

Don't take AutoBILD too seriously, I heard that the smallest Turbodiesel gets 180-200 hp.

The top Diesel engine will also have more than 300 hp..

And it will get the new V6 turbo engine, too.

--

AM
www.aldo-yachting.de

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Mar 6, 2013 8:42:30 AM

993Targa: Rennteam Pro; Loc: ZH , Switzerland; Posts: 2522, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 16, 2004; Reply to: ALDO

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

A 300HP Diesel in the Macan would be interesting.

--

2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso

Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2

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Mar 6, 2013 9:19:33 AM

Cram: Expert; Loc: french area , Switzerland; Posts: 1618, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 28, 2005; Reply to: 993Targa

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

one thing is sure. it'll at least have similar to the cayenne diesel or a little bit less. they can't do the macan more powerfull then the cayenne unless a Macan S will be produced and we might have a similarity with cayenne S or maybe turbo

--

997 GT3,Cayenne S, Cooper S & VW Cross Polo

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Mar 6, 2013 7:58:39 PM

Atzporsche: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Vancouver , Canada; Posts: 9118, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 7, 2005; Reply to: Cram

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

Audi's V10 TDi would be interesting in a Porsche kiss

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Mar 14, 2013 1:22:50 PM

SportCarGroup: Expert; Loc: IL , Israel; Posts: 1834, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2012; Reply to: Atzporsche

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

Leipzig / Stuttgart:

Countdown for the Macan: A few months before the first customer vehicle of the new model range will roll off the assembly line.

--

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Mar 14, 2013 1:24:23 PM

SportCarGroup: Expert; Loc: IL , Israel; Posts: 1834, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2012; Reply to: SportCarGroup

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

Latest renderings:

--

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Mar 15, 2013 4:04:03 PM

993Targa: Rennteam Pro; Loc: ZH , Switzerland; Posts: 2522, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 16, 2004; Reply to: SportCarGroup

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

That looks ridiculous. mail

I'm sure the real thing will look better!

--

2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso

Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2

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Mar 15, 2013 6:04:06 PM

Targa Tim: Expert; Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada , Canada; Posts: 1475, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2005; Reply to: 993Targa

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

^ it looks good to me, better than the current Cayenne. Am I missing something?

--

Tim

2010 997.2 GT3RS; 2008 Cayenne Turbo; 2006 911 Club Coupe #13; 2011 Panamera 4

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Mar 15, 2013 7:53:44 PM

GM Austin: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 3530, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 10, 2002; Reply to: Targa Tim

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

Targa Tim:

^ it looks good to me, better than the current Cayenne. Am I missing something?

I agree, looks good! Smiley

I saw a news item about hiring for the new assembly line, 1000 new workers or 1600, something like that, and the first units would be rolling off the line iate this year.

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Mar 15, 2013 11:20:52 PM

Enmanuel: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Boston , United States; Posts: 8861, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 7, 2008; Reply to: GM Austin

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

I like the rear.

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Mar 16, 2013 11:06:33 PM

KMM: Expert; Loc: Boston, MA , United States; Posts: 1745, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 5, 2004; Reply to: SportCarGroup

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

The rear design is uninspired. If this is how it turns out in reality, I will stop complaining about the ridiculous taillights of the current Cayenne.

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Mar 16, 2013 11:59:12 PM

GR: Senior; Loc: S Bucks, England , United Kingdom; Posts: 779, Gallery; Registered on: May 17, 2005; Reply to: KMM

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

It looks like an Audi at the back!

--

Gen II Cayman S

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Mar 17, 2013 8:05:39 AM

malvira: Newbie; Loc: Belgium , Belgium; Posts: 17, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 16, 2010; Reply to: GR

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

Appart from the wheels it doesn't look like a photoshop...

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Mar 17, 2013 11:40:09 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59606, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: SportCarGroup

Re: "Cajun" is now...MACAN

SportCarGroup:

Latest renderings:

Nice renderings but both are wrong. Smiley

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

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