Crown

nizer:

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

But the new 991 GT3 engine will be used in racing..so where is the problem?

Really?  Don't hold your breath.

I know it.  Don't know about PDK though.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

savvy:

RC:

Well...I wouldn't call them liars, this is how marketing works and may I ask a stupid question: Has it ever been much different?! This is valid for all car manufacturers in my opinion.

 

It is different, right now. There is a company with honesty and integrity in their product representation. And along with their car fitting my exact needs, is why I sold my Porsches and bought one. BAC Mono. Amazing people with an amazing product. There is no need to lie when the product is intrinsically honest in engineering and execution.

Are you serious? You compare a BAC Mono to a GT3? I doubt you are going to be faster on the Nordschleife in your Mono than in the new GT3 and I can still listen to music in the GT3, use a cup holder  and put the A/C on when it gets too hot. I am sorry but the BAC Mono, which still has to prove itself vs. the KTM X-Bow, Ariel Atom, etc., is more of a track toy, not a sports car. 

Of course I am serious. Your reply shows you are not fully informed about the BAC Mono and have no personal desire for an un-compromised drivers car (and that is fine, some want an intimate, analog, driving experience, others a rolling couch). I've had a multi-hour personal experience with a Mono and drove it. It's build quality far exceeds that of  a GT3 and is more on par with aerospace quality and attention to detail. All parts are race car derived, so there is no need for deceptive marketing as Porsche has done to its prospects and buyers. The BAC Mono is honest and real for those seeking a deeply connecting driving experience. After the lies and BS, I crave honest and reality...

I know the BAC Mono better than you think but you are right, I have no (more) personal desire for an un-compromised car because I am 47 years old and I am bored.  I started to enjoy the finer things in life and part of this is my family and of course having some (not much) comfort. The BAC Mono is a track toy, like I said but for everything else, well...not really suitable. Yes, the BAC Mono is an honest car for honest money , this is like buying a motorcycle for 100k. No thanks. I'm too old for this sh.t. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

m4ever:

reginos:

911rox:

I would not be believing blindly in Porsche doing right by customers in this day and age wen VW whom own and control them have big loans to pay and money to make...

What does VW have to do with it? Porsche's biggest blunders occurred when they were still independent, from the failing chain tensioners of the 70s to the infamous intermediate shaft of the 996/997.1 era.

I trust VW quality and their products, from Skoda to Porsche. If anything VW is adding to Porsche a lot already.

911 were miles ahead in the seventies in reliability compared to their competition of that time (read Ferraris, Maserati etc). Remember race on Sunday sell on Monday?

The mechanical chain tensioner failure damaged many 911 engines until the hydraulic system was introduced in (if I remember well) 1981. That was pro-actively retrofitted to older cars too in many cases.

Also the cylinder studs (long studs fixing the separate cylinders to the block)  used to fail very frequently in spite of Porsche experimenting with a variety of different materials over the years. Not all was rosy in the old days, but Porsches were fewer and there was no internet then . Being more reliable than the Italian cars of the time was not an achievement, really.

"Form follows function"

GTlover:

1) beat the 458

2) beat the Nissan GTr

1) GT3 : 0-100km/h : 3.5    458 : 3.4

 max speed : 315    458 : 325

N'ring time : 7:30    458 : 7:38

2) the GTR is not a target 

( targets are : 458, SLS, R8 5.2 , ZR1, Gallardo 550)

--

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

What is the issue with Centre Locks?

I thought Porsche resolved this by issuing a recall and replacing the defective items (of course subject to correct maintenance schedule) and since then there have been no reported failures?

Please correct me if I am wrong as I would like to confirm the issue is resolved. Thanks...

Oh boy, arguing so much about the GT3 actually started my appetite for this car. Let me see...dealer spot...September...hmm...my wife would kill me. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

Oh boy, arguing so much about the GT3 actually started my appetite for this car. Let me see...dealer spot...September...hmm...my wife would kill me. 

Well... My wife feelings currently mirror your wife feelings. But, she gave me a hint what I need to do for my family to get a approval from her.

KresoF1:

RC:

Oh boy, arguing so much about the GT3 actually started my appetite for this car. Let me see...dealer spot...September...hmm...my wife would kill me. 

Well... My wife feelings currently mirror your wife feelings. But, she gave me a hint what I need to do for my family to get a approval from her.

 

Which is..?

boytronic:

What is the issue with Centre Locks?

I thought Porsche resolved this by issuing a recall and replacing the defective items (of course subject to correct maintenance schedule) and since then there have been no reported failures?

Please correct me if I am wrong as I would like to confirm the issue is resolved. Thanks...

Hi boytronic,

look 3 pages back..911rox listet the dilemma..solved..nothing is solved..these things are becoming a nightmare..I think from now on for the rest of my life I have to save every year another 1500€ extra just to keep me beloved centre looking car still in a postion to "roll"..

RC:

Oh boy, arguing so much about the GT3 actually started my appetite for this car. Let me see...dealer spot...September...hmm...my wife would kill me. 

but we might love your for that ..dont tell us that it would mean nothing for you..

Gnil:

GTlover:

1) beat the 458

2) beat the Nissan GTr

1) GT3 : 0-100km/h : 3.5    458 : 3.4

 max speed : 315    458 : 325

N'ring time : 7:30    458 : 7:38

2) the GTR is not a target 

( targets are : 458, SLS, R8 5.2 , ZR1, Gallardo 550)

--

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

yes..but youre quoting one factory time and onether time from an independent test. No matter, for me this the "minimum requirement"..anything else would be a "nice to have"..

RC:

artur777:

Kreso F1.

pls comment what does mean "next 991 turbo s will be mind-blowing"

give me pls some hints. Because I have a tough choice - to buy new GT3 or wait for new Turbo S...

your hints may help a lot - thanks

Don't even go there. You can't compare both.

The new 991 Turbo (let alone the S) will be an acceleration monster with amazing traction. So if you are looking to win red light races, this is it, there shouldn't be anything better on the market when it will come out. Same goes to Autobahn performance, the 0-200 kph time should be around 10 seconds (for the regular Turbo).

If driving "as if you sit in a race car" is more of your style, then the GT3 is the right model. It is also the perfect track fun car because of the sportier chassis setup and lower weight. The GT3 has a more direct steering, the PDK is less comfortable but faster and the comfort is limited due to the harsher ride and of course the louder exhaust/engine note. People would say that the GT3 is more involving, it ticks your senses more than the Turbo but of course a skilled driver could be faster in the Turbo.

I really don't think you can compare both, two different toys.

Christian, thanks!

But 991 Turbo to become an acceleration monster should be faster than 10 secs for 0-200. 997.2 Turbo (S) in sone tests was about 10.5 secs for 0-200. Not that much improvement..  Or am I mistaken?

KresoF1:

RC:

artur777:

Kreso F1.

pls comment what does mean "next 991 turbo s will be mind-blowing"

give me pls some hints. Because I have a tough choice - to buy new GT3 or wait for new Turbo S...

your hints may help a lot - thanks

Don't even go there. You can't compare both.

The new 991 Turbo (let alone the S) will be an acceleration monster with amazing traction. So if you are looking to win red light races, this is it, there shouldn't be anything better on the market when it will come out. Same goes to Autobahn performance, the 0-200 kph time should be around 10 seconds (for the regular Turbo).

If driving "as if you sit in a race car" is more of your style, then the GT3 is the right model. It is also the perfect track fun car because of the sportier chassis setup and lower weight. The GT3 has a more direct steering, the PDK is less comfortable but faster and the comfort is limited due to the harsher ride and of course the louder exhaust/engine note. People would say that the GT3 is more involving, it ticks your senses more than the Turbo but of course a skilled driver could be faster in the Turbo.

I really don't think you can compare both, two different toys.

I belive Christian write up gives you pretty nice idea about 991 Turbo.

As he wrote this are two different sportscars. Also, there is a difference in price. Fully equiped 991 GT3 is about 155K € and 991 Turbo will be in 175K € range with some options.

Artur, if you can get both. I am not kidding here at all. they are different enough to complement each other nicelly.

Kreso F1, thanks!

Very interesting!

do you think 991 turbo will be only 10 secs for 0-200?

997.2 turbo s was about the same, and new 991 gt3 is 11.4 secs for 0-200. 

It is not that much faster in predictions unfortunately...I hope it will be about 8-9 secs for 0-200

RC:

nizer:

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

But the new 991 GT3 engine will be used in racing..so where is the problem?

Really?  Don't hold your breath.

I know it.  Don't know about PDK though.

You mean - you know where the problem is/would be - or you mean you know that the new engine will be used in racing soon..?

Tough question..I know..but if you cant answer it..no problem either..

If you want I can tell you that 991 Turbo will do 9.5s in Auto Zeitung(and it probably will do). Turbo S will be faster, expect something like 9.0s or 8.8s in some optimistic tests.

BTW, do you know why is new GT3 that fast( 11.4s for 0-200km/h)? New PDK gearing with 7th used as power gear.

Now, let me give you some potential hints... Will Porsche build something like 991 GT2, with 610ps and PDK with 7th gear as power gear? If then do it(and I doubt) this car will be fast as hell.

Gnil:

GTlover:

1) beat the 458

2) beat the Nissan GTr

1) GT3 : 0-100km/h : 3.5    458 : 3.4

 max speed : 315    458 : 325

N'ring time : 7:30    458 : 7:38

2) the GTR is not a target 

( targets are : 458, SLS, R8 5.2 , ZR1, Gallardo 550)

--

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

And why is GTR not a target?

who will target GTR with its 7.2x time at NBR. Porsche needs to overcome it with GT3 or GT2 cars!

KresoF1:

If you want I can tell you that 991 Turbo will do 9.5s in Auto Zeitung(and it probably will do). Turbo S will be faster, expect something like 9.0s or 8.8s in some optimistic tests.

BTW, do you know why is new GT3 that fast(below 12.0s for 0-200km/h)? New PDK gearing with 7th used as power gear.

Now, let me give you some potential hints... Will Porsche build something like 991 GT2, with 610ps and PDK with 7th gear as power gear? If then do it(and I doubt) this car will be fast as hell.

Kreso F1,

Thanks! 8.8s is a great figure! But very ambitious as well. Does Porsche needs to develop new engine to maintain such acceleration loads?

will 991 turbo have 7th gear for accelerating?

and gt2with 600+hp and pdk will be a very-very fast car!!! But the traction! Will it be based on gt3 or turbo engine?)

RC:

I know the BAC Mono better than you think but you are right, I have no (more) personal desire for an un-compromised car because I am 47 years old and I am bored.  I started to enjoy the finer things in life and part of this is my family and of course having some (not much) comfort. The BAC Mono is a track toy, like I said but for everything else, well...not really suitable. Yes, the BAC Mono is an honest car for honest money , this is like buying a motorcycle for 100k. No thanks. I'm too old for this sh.t. 

As a 52 yr old non-bored entrepreneur who is a regular tracking enthusiast the Mono hits my sweet spot right in the bull's eye. The details, hundreds of custom forgings and carbon fiber pieces and rock-solid engineering and construction result in a wheeled work of automotive art. Those of us who seek a very special driving experience owe a debt of gratitude that the Briggs brothers followed their dream. And not a marketing plan.

artur777:

KresoF1:

If you want I can tell you that 991 Turbo will do 9.5s in Auto Zeitung(and it probably will do). Turbo S will be faster, expect something like 9.0s or 8.8s in some optimistic tests.

BTW, do you know why is new GT3 that fast(below 12.0s for 0-200km/h)? New PDK gearing with 7th used as power gear.

Now, let me give you some potential hints... Will Porsche build something like 991 GT2, with 610ps and PDK with 7th gear as power gear? If then do it(and I doubt) this car will be fast as hell.

Kreso F1,

Thanks! 8.8s is a great figure! But very ambitious as well. Does Porsche needs to develop new engine to maintain such acceleration loads?

will 991 turbo have 7th gear for accelerating?

and gt2with 600+hp and pdk will be a very-very fast car!!! But the traction! Will it be based on gt3 or turbo engine?)

IF Porsche decides to build 991 GT2 traction wont be an issue.

AFAIK base 991 Turbo will be standard PDK gear ratios-same as on Carrera models. Turbo S may use different gearing...

BTW, 475ps is the lowest figure for new GT3 engine. Accoring to my source new GT3 engine actually produces more power...

GTlover:

boytronic:

What is the issue with Centre Locks?

I thought Porsche resolved this by issuing a recall and replacing the defective items (of course subject to correct maintenance schedule) and since then there have been no reported failures?

Please correct me if I am wrong as I would like to confirm the issue is resolved. Thanks...

Hi boytronic,

look 3 pages back..911rox listet the dilemma..solved..nothing is solved..these things are becoming a nightmare..I think from now on for the rest of my life I have to save every year another 1500€ extra just to keep me beloved centre looking car still in a postion to "roll"..

Thanks I missed 911Rox's post in this fast moving thread!

So if I bought a 3.8 RS and did around 21000km per year of hard mixing driving (street plus a some amateur track days) I would have to pay to change the CL assembly THREE times in one year? And I guess therefore CLs (post recall) are not covered under warranty and hence what we call a 'wear and tear' / consumable item like brakes and tyres?

Dario:

DaveGordon:

For you Swissies - I just did the sums on an import..  a UK-supplied, LHD, German-spec car works out at 150k all taxes paid.  This new CO2 sanction/tax on imports works out at 16.7k CHF! 

(I've had my name on a list at a dealer for the last couple of years..)

How was your calculation done, dont get it

137k euro german price - 19% german Mwst + 8% swiss Mwst + 4% swiss import taxes leaves me around 155 k swiss francs ( 1.23 Euro/sfr), but on this the co2 swiss taxes = around 172 000 sfr for a new german gt3 instead of 190 000 sfr for a swiss car.

now if i am correct and swiss dealer give an euro discount difference may only bee 10 000 sfr or so for german Import car vs swiss car

let me know if i am calculating wrong

UK-supplied - so £100k - 20% VAT @1.42GBP/CHF

2011 987S, 1964 Type 1

artur777:

Gnil:

GTlover:

1) beat the 458

2) beat the Nissan GTr

1) GT3 : 0-100km/h : 3.5    458 : 3.4

 max speed : 315    458 : 325

N'ring time : 7:30    458 : 7:38

2) the GTR is not a target 

( targets are : 458, SLS, R8 5.2 , ZR1, Gallardo 550)

--

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

And why is GTR not a target?

who will target GTR with its 7.2x time at NBR. Porsche needs to overcome it with GT3 or GT2 cars!

I do not have that info.. you will have to ask them . I would think that the GTR falls into the Turbo target .

All the cars mentioned above are  non turbo .

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Speaking of  7 real gears , here are the ratio:

1st : 3.750

2nd : 2.381

3rd: 1.720

4th: 1.344

5th: 1.114

6th: 0.957

7th: 0.844

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

RC:

savvy:

Bottom line:

The Porsche Marketing Machine will spew any lie and cannot and should not ever be trusted. RC is adamant to make that point. Prospects and buyers are just plain stupid to believe or be strongly influenced by the marketing videos, materials verbiage and the image that is cultivated and portrayed. As RC says, the street car must not be tracked, and is only for Cars n Coffee events. Porsche is a propaganda machine first and a car company second. That was driven home quite quickly as I noted all the 996.xx prefix parts in my '10 and '11 cars. When one achieves this moment of clarity, it is quite painful because you realize just how badly you got sexual intercoursed by The Porsche Marketing Machine.

The new GT3 is a great sporty cruiser, it is not intended for track use and will immediately lose its warranty after such use, and if you do track it the cost of the consumables will make a grown man cry ($900 ea rear tires for example). Those of us who are serious tracking enthusiasts (not "racers", please) have many very fine choices for our track use. I know I made my choices.

 

Well...I wouldn't call them liars, this is how marketing works and may I ask a stupid question: Has it ever been much different?! This is valid for all car manufacturers in my opinion.

and to fuel up a little bit this discussion, this is taken from what Porsche officially states about the GT3 991 :

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Pentium:

The 4 seats GT3 is called 911 GTS these days... no wing, 4 seats and a better engine...

Porsche is just trying to place each product better. C2S -> C4S -> GTS -> GT3 -> GT3RS -> etc...

 

Personally I don't see the C4S as a better car than the C2S but an alternative for some folks. I much prefer my C2S to any C4 because it's the "traditional" 911 layout.

No offense 

Gnil:

RC:

savvy:

Bottom line:

The Porsche Marketing Machine will spew any lie and cannot and should not ever be trusted. RC is adamant to make that point. Prospects and buyers are just plain stupid to believe or be strongly influenced by the marketing videos, materials verbiage and the image that is cultivated and portrayed. As RC says, the street car must not be tracked, and is only for Cars n Coffee events. Porsche is a propaganda machine first and a car company second. That was driven home quite quickly as I noted all the 996.xx prefix parts in my '10 and '11 cars. When one achieves this moment of clarity, it is quite painful because you realize just how badly you got sexual intercoursed by The Porsche Marketing Machine.

The new GT3 is a great sporty cruiser, it is not intended for track use and will immediately lose its warranty after such use, and if you do track it the cost of the consumables will make a grown man cry ($900 ea rear tires for example). Those of us who are serious tracking enthusiasts (not "racers", please) have many very fine choices for our track use. I know I made my choices.

 

Well...I wouldn't call them liars, this is how marketing works and may I ask a stupid question: Has it ever been much different?! This is valid for all car manufacturers in my opinion.

and to fuel up a little bit this discussion, this is taken from what Porsche officially states about the GT3 991 :

 

The exterior leaves no doubt about what the 911 GT3 was conceived for: the race circuit. 

 

So lets get this right. Porsche advertise the GT3 as being conceived for the race circuit NOT for the STREET, however, if you take the car on a race circuit and a component fails your warranty claim will be void because track racing is not covered. Is this correct?

To clarify we are NOT talking about RACE cars here. 

KresoF1:

RC:

Oh boy, arguing so much about the GT3 actually started my appetite for this car. Let me see...dealer spot...September...hmm...my wife would kill me. 

Well... My wife feelings currently mirror your wife feelings. But, she gave me a hint what I need to do for my family to get a approval from her.

 

Don't ask the wife.  Just do it...

2005 997S Blk/Blk

SoCal Alan:

KresoF1:

RC:

Oh boy, arguing so much about the GT3 actually started my appetite for this car. Let me see...dealer spot...September...hmm...my wife would kill me. 

Well... My wife feelings currently mirror your wife feelings. But, she gave me a hint what I need to do for my family to get a approval from her.

 

Don't ask the wife.  Just do it...

+1000 it's called being a man ;)

Wow so much critisicm. I have to say that some are really negative. I don't think the first gen GT3 was more hardcore than the new 991 version.. Porsche has made sure its still pure and looks like the cup car. And really if its as fast as the GT3 RS 4.0 than that is amazing and should silence virtually everyone. I will say this, many critics will be silenced once they drive it. I trust the Porsche engineers on this one but I also realize Porsche has reduced costs and maximized their audience at the same time.