Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991) - Page1

Mar 6, 2013 10:00:27 PM

Boxster Coupe GTS: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2005; Reply to: Boxster Coupe GTS

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Porsche 991 GT3 at the Geneva Motor Show...

Porsche 991 GT3 at the Geneva Motor Show -- AutoGuide Link

Smiley Smiley Smiley

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Mar 6, 2013 10:05:52 PM

BiTurbo: Rennteam Master; Loc: X , United States; Posts: 3251, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2006; Reply to: Boxster Coupe GTS

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Dunlop ? crying

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Mar 6, 2013 10:13:49 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: BiTurbo

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

BiTurbo:

Dunlop ?

I just looked at the pricing for these Sport Maxx Race tires and they are $600/ea in 19", so a set in 20" are going to be close to $3k - pretty expensive track days (around $350/day if you figure 8 track days)...

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

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Mar 6, 2013 10:43:21 PM

turbolite: Veteran; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 1012, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 26, 2004; Reply to: Gnil

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Gnil:

Something VERY WRONG with Swiss pricing again !!!

In Germany , including 19% tax : Euro : 137 300 .- = CHF 171'000.- Excluding tax : CHF 143700.-

In Switzerland , including 8% tax : CHF 190'000 .- Excluding tax : CHF 175'900 .- That is about 22% more expensive !!

I thaught Swiss pricing had been adapted now ( and they are on the Carrera , Turbo ( 997 ) , but it seems that they choose not to do it on the Gt3 , probably thinking customers will less likely buy the car on the foreign markets.

This is bad again for our local market and will mess up the Porsche distribution again !!!

Porsche : do not be surprised if we get lots of US imported cars again ( like we did with the 997 ) or that people buy their Gt3's in Germany . All this messing up the local market !

This difference is not acceptable .

--

997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Bravo Gnil, I couldnt agree more! I turned livid when i saw the price!! 40000 Swissfrancs more margin for Porsche thanks to the Swiss dummies who will buy it anyway! how stupid do they think we are??? Amazing...

I also had thought they had kind of adapted to a lower gap, but not so for the Gt3! I wonder how it wil be with the Turbo.. Smiley

--

turbolite

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Mar 6, 2013 10:54:56 PM

SuzyF: Expert; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 1306, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 7, 2013; Reply to: turbolite

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Did anyone see those lovely headlights???

Will they be available on other 991's??? I really like them a lot!! frown

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Mar 6, 2013 11:01:38 PM

4trac: Expert; Loc: SK , Canada; Posts: 1920, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 6, 2006; Reply to: RC

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

RC:

Manual proved to have only disadvantages in the GT3, they tested a manual version and it was much slower.

The main disadvantage that I saw in the old GT3 manual was its unnecessarily stiff action and clutch weight. In my view it made the car seem much more clumsy than it should have been, and I am fairly fit. I am all for a sharper PDK in this car. BTW I second the views that the sloping centre console looks too lux for this car, needs a console delete option....

--

2011 Range Rover Sport S/C, 2009 Porsche 911S

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Mar 6, 2013 11:18:48 PM

Boxster Coupe GTS: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2005; Reply to: 4trac

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

CAR interviews 'Mr GT3' Andreas Preuninger...

(6 March 2013)

The latest Porsche 911 GT3 boasts an all-new 469bhp 3.8-litre flat-six and is quicker than the legendary GT3 RS 4.0, but fans of this hardcore icon have voiced their concern over its new dual-clutch PDK gearbox and its steering (both the electric rack inherited from the 991-generation Carrera, and the new rear-axle steering).

Ahead of the 911 GT3's unveil at the 2013 Geneva show this week, CAR had exclusive access to the car, and to the man who headed the team that engineered it: Porsche's head of GT series production Andreas Preuninger.

The controversial new Porsche 911 GT3

Preuninger built the first 996 GT3, and has been doing his job for the past 12 years. We asked him all about the new GT3, including those controversial issues. Here are his answers...

Andreas Preuninger on the philosophy of the new GT3...

'The GT3 has become so important for Porsche – we have to offer a GT3 variant with every new 911. It's been a niche in the past, but not anymore, especially because so many competitors are pushing into the sector. The bandwidth in which the new car is useable is incredible: it's a brilliant daily drive, but it's also got an even more sporting edged biased towards track capability.'

On the death of the motorsport-derived ‘Mezger’ engine…

'The 4.0-litre RS with the 'Mezger' engine was not in our long-term planning, but a skunkworks project. The original plan was for the last Mezger engine to feature in the 3.8 RS and GT2 RS, but we decided to make the 4.0 RS, as one last goodbye, with all the things we learnt from the GT2 RS. It’s definitely the last time we will use that engine in a road car – I promised everyone and I will be true to my word.'

On the new engine...

'There’s a lot of doubt, in the almost devout community of GT3 buyers. It’s not something out of the 911 Carrera with a bigger camshaft: the only parts shared with the 991 Carrera S engine are the casting of the crankcase and the bolts for the cylinder head. Full stop. That’s it. There’s a new crank, titanium con-rods, forged aluminium pistons, and a completely new cylinder head with a revolutionary valvetrain that you won’t find in any other street-legal car – there are no tappets, instead we use rocker arms like in a motorcycle so the weight goes down dramatically. The new engine is around 25kg lighter than the Mezger. And that gives us room for the extra rpms…

'We were very, very aware that this engine needs to have the same character, the same amount of character, the same specialness as the Mezger had. We have absolutely made it: the new engine has the same impatient idle, this ‘Come on, go!’ attitude and it revs even higher – to 9000rpm. You wouldn’t believe the difference between 8500rpm and 9000rpm – it’s only a small difference numerically, but when you’re in the car the experience is a whole new world. The way the engine goes to the redline, the sounds the engine makes is so mechanically crisp and emotional that it brings a totally new personality to the GT3.

'We decided to make an emotional link to the GT3 RS 4.0, the king of the GT3s, so the new GT3 has the same specific output: 123bhp/litre. We’re on par, but I would say 469bhp is conservative. I like ‘low-balling’ with GT3s – we could say 500bhp and that would be perfectly homologatable, but I’d rather say 469bhp and have the GT3 beat all the 550bhp cars. This is more Porsche.'

On the new dual-clutch PDK gearbox...

'I’ve being doing this job for 12 years, I made the first GT3, and everybody knows I’m a very puristic driver. I want the car to be analogue, I want maximum driver involvement. That’s why we chose not to use a PDK ‘box until now – the involvement was not at the point where it should be for the GT3. The weight was another issue, too. So this time, for the first time, we decided to try out the PDK gearbox in parallel with the manual, and really feel what the difference was like. And feel is very important, for customers and myself – a very, very fast car where you don’t have any sensations isn’t worth the money. And coming from the other side we are under pressure from the competition, so I won’t sacrifice any performance just because someone wants to shift with a manual.

'The PDK gearbox is about 30kg heavier than the manual in the 997, and we have saved 25kg from the engine, so I said we should try it. The ‘box itself isn’t from the Carrera: there’s seven driving gears, not six plus overdrive, so you reach the top speed in seventh, And the programmes and hardware are totally different. The upshifts are beyond comparison on the market – less than 100ms – and it’s so much fun to use it: the sensation you get when you drive the car is like having a sequential race gearbox, not a flappy paddle system.

'We added a ‘Hooligan mode’ so you can do donuts in the car. Or, let’s say you have a 2nd gear curve, it’s wet, there’s nobody around and you wanted to drift. How do you do that in the manual? You dip the clutch and press the throttle to get the car around. That’s not possible in a normal automatic, but it is in the GT3: if you pull both paddles it engages neutral so you can 'clutch kick' the GT3. Same for race starts – you can dial up more wheelspin than the computer will give you. This was a major programme with the gearbox development to ensure you could play around with the PDK.'

On when the manual gearbox was ruled out...

'We ruled out the manual gearbox in back to-back comparisons last summer. On every shift with the PDK is more emotional, because for the first time when you shift at 9000rpm there’s a bham! in the exhaust, and this gives you goosebumps. It blips the throttle on the downshifts, and on a road you don’t know you can go very fast with both hands on the wheel. And on a race track the PDK gains three-quarters of a car length with every shift, so after a long straight you’re ahead of the other car and can turn-in in front of him. It just works. This is the big news.

'There’s no chance of a manual. We don’t want to offer too many options on our GT cars. And if you’ve got a manual and a PDK you’ve got to have different set-ups for the suspension, the aero, the tyres, everything. We are a small team and can only concentrate on one car.'

On the GT3’s new electric steering...

'The steering was a challenge, as we’re changing to the electromechanical system. I think we had a benchmark system in the last GT3, and it was my target to get it as least as good as that system. It was not easy as the GT3 driver needs to feel all the feedback the tyres give him, all the forces in the steering rods, in all conditions, but we made a huge effort to get it exactly the way it was in the last car. I promise no one will notice that it is not the steering we had in the GT3 RS 4.0. I’m 100% sure of that. The filters are gone!'

On active rear-wheel steering...

'I was shying away from it. I believed it was not puristic enough. But we tried it out and it helps so much. And you don’t notice it because it’s simply a steering rod system, not some electronic gizmo. We can change the angle of the rear wheels by 1.5 degrees, which doesn’t sound like much but the effect is tremendous. I couldn’t believe how much better the agility of the car and the turn-in capability are with the system. I did a back-to-back test, in one car with the system able to be turned off by a switch, and couldn’t believe the difference. And on track, the tyres last longer, so you are more consistent.

'The steering rods add 5-6kg, plus the system draws more current so yo need a bigger battery, but back-to-back with a car with a lightweight battery, no rear-steer and a manual gearbox (and in that configuration the car is lighter than a 997 GT3) this new GT3 is so much more confidence inspiring. And faster, no matter where you drive it. It simply didn’t make sense not to use all these systems to take on all the other competitors out there.'

CAR interviews 'Mr GT3' Andreas Preuninger -- Article Link

Smiley Smiley Smiley

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Mar 6, 2013 11:20:30 PM

crayphile: Rennteam Pro; Loc: England , United Kingdom; Posts: 2861, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2004; Reply to: RC

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

RC:
Mark my words, this new GT3 will be the most successful GT3 ever in Porsche history because it is fast on the track, it is a good daily driver and it still provides the same "raw" driving feel people expect from a GT3.

I agree - it has everything - except the 4 seats - if it had that I would buy it in a heartbeat. Far and away the best looking 991 to date. I doubt the Turbo will look anywhere as good.

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Mar 6, 2013 11:21:56 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: 4trac

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

4trac:

BTW I second the views that the sloping centre console looks too lux for this car, needs a console delete option....

I think this might be left for the RS...

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

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Mar 7, 2013 1:25:40 AM

Carrara: Senior; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 570, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 30, 2011; Reply to: Grant

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Anybody know what it looks like under the "hood"?

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Mar 7, 2013 1:43:19 AM

Whoopsy: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada; Posts: 16151, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2006; Reply to: Carrara

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Seeing that 3.8 attached to a small panel to the wing makes me feel like there could be a 4.0, a 4.2 etc coming in the future. That little piece is soooooooooo easily replaceable.

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Mar 7, 2013 3:01:43 AM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Whoopsy

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Whoopsy:

Seeing that 3.8 attached to a small panel to the wing makes me feel like there could be a 4.0, a 4.2 etc coming in the future. That little piece is soooooooooo easily replaceable.

If they make a 4.2L, that's a cylinder size of 700cc - pretty huge for 9,000 rpm!

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

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Mar 7, 2013 3:20:57 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Doubting Andreas Preuninger about the goodness of the new GT3 is ridiculous. mail

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Mar 7, 2013 6:21:15 AM

SportCarGroup: Expert; Loc: IL , Israel; Posts: 1834, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2012; Reply to: SuzyF

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

SuzyF:

Did anyone see those lovely headlights???

Will they be available on other 991's??? I really like them a lot!!

Of course we noticed the new headlights,that`s why I have posted the pic with the leds on. About the availability on other 991 - Smiley Let's wait and see Smiley

--

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Mar 7, 2013 7:23:44 AM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14171, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: DaveGordon

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

DaveGordon:

For you Swissies - I just did the sums on an import.. a UK-supplied, LHD, German-spec car works out at 150k all taxes paid. This new CO2 sanction/tax on imports works out at 16.7k CHF!

(I've had my name on a list at a dealer for the last couple of years..)

The difference will leave enough money to buy DD !! That's the way to go !

--

997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

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Mar 7, 2013 7:44:49 AM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: SuzyF

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

SuzyF:

Did anyone see those lovely headlights???

Will they be available on other 991's??? I really like them a lot!!

I'm sure they'll find their way into the 991's option list. Too much cash to ignore... Smiley

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

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Mar 7, 2013 8:30:25 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Rossi

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

The LED lights will be available as an option for other 991 models too as far as I heard and they may even be standard on the new 991 Turbo. The 4 spots day running lights may be reserved to the GT and Turbo models though, same as on the Panamera and Cayenne.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

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Mar 7, 2013 9:36:18 AM

993Targa: Rennteam Pro; Loc: ZH , Switzerland; Posts: 2522, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 16, 2004; Reply to: turbolite

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

turbolite:
Bravo Gnil, I couldnt agree more! I turned livid when i saw the price!! 40000 Swissfrancs more margin for Porsche thanks to the Swiss dummies who will buy it anyway! how stupid do they think we are??? Amazing...

I also had thought they had kind of adapted to a lower gap, but not so for the Gt3! I wonder how it wil be with the Turbo..

Did any of you check for a discount with your dealer? When I bought my Cayenne in 2011 the discounts because of the strong CHF where quite substantial, meaning double digit percentages.

--

2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso

Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2

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Mar 7, 2013 11:15:56 AM

sulaiman: Co-Pilot; Loc: kuwait , Kuwait; Posts: 179, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 24, 2013; Reply to: Rossi

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

maybe on the faceleft ?? just a guess

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Mar 7, 2013 11:36:08 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: 993Targa

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

993Targa:

turbolite:
Bravo Gnil, I couldnt agree more! I turned livid when i saw the price!! 40000 Swissfrancs more margin for Porsche thanks to the Swiss dummies who will buy it anyway! how stupid do they think we are??? Amazing...

I also had thought they had kind of adapted to a lower gap, but not so for the Gt3! I wonder how it wil be with the Turbo..

Did any of you check for a discount with your dealer? When I bought my Cayenne in 2011 the discounts because of the strong CHF where quite substantial, meaning double digit percentages.

Demand is already high for the GT3, I wouldn't expect more than lower single digit rebates (2-5% at max). Could be different from country to country but my dealer for example gets only three cars this year and he could sell 8.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

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Mar 7, 2013 1:30:21 PM

SuzyF: Expert; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 1306, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 7, 2013; Reply to: SportCarGroup

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

SportCarGroup:

SuzyF:

Did anyone see those lovely headlights???

Will they be available on other 991's??? I really like them a lot!!

Of course we noticed the new headlights,that`s why I have posted the pic with the leds on. About the availability on other 991 - Let's wait and see

--

Oops! frown sorry... In all my enthusiasm I didn't notice that... I saw the pics on Facebook so I thought I'd post them here.

RC:

The LED lights will be available as an option for other 991 models too as far as I heard and they may even be standard on the new 991 Turbo. The 4 spots day running lights may be reserved to the GT and Turbo models though, same as on the Panamera and Cayenne.

Thanx for the information! Good news!

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Mar 7, 2013 1:41:23 PM

SportCarGroup: Expert; Loc: IL , Israel; Posts: 1834, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2012; Reply to: SuzyF

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

SuzyF:

SportCarGroup:

SuzyF:

Did anyone see those lovely headlights???

Will they be available on other 991's??? I really like them a lot!!

Of course we noticed the new headlights,that`s why I have posted the pic with the leds on. About the availability on other 991 - Let's wait and see

--

Oops! sorry... In all my enthusiasm I didn't notice that... I saw the pics on Facebook so I thought I'd post them here.

It's Ok mate and welcome to Rennteam Smiley

--

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Mar 7, 2013 1:50:09 PM

SportCarGroup: Expert; Loc: IL , Israel; Posts: 1834, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2012; Reply to: Carrara

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Carrara:

Anybody know what it looks like under the "hood"?

Take a look Smiley

--

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Mar 7, 2013 1:51:45 PM

SportCarGroup: Expert; Loc: IL , Israel; Posts: 1834, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2012; Reply to: SportCarGroup

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

2014 Porsche 911 GT3 -- 2013 Geneva Auto Show -- Edmunds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sth5iTy-UcU

--

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Mar 7, 2013 1:59:18 PM

Adam2S: Senior; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 745, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 19, 2007; Reply to: SportCarGroup

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

I must stop following this thread! The more I see of it the more I want one - Im not in a hurry but could talk myself into getting one say summer 2014, assuming Im not too late already with a deposit.

Does anybody know total expected produciton volumes for the UK and lenght of production run?

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Mar 7, 2013 2:01:03 PM

SportCarGroup: Expert; Loc: IL , Israel; Posts: 1834, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2012; Reply to: Adam2S

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

--

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Mar 7, 2013 2:04:12 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Adam2S

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Adam2S:

I must stop following this thread! The more I see of it the more I want one - Im not in a hurry but could talk myself into getting one say summer 2014, assuming Im not too late already with a deposit.

Does anybody know total expected produciton volumes for the UK and lenght of production run?

It's always been a 2-year run (before a pause and then a facelift). I think volumes will be higher than in past.

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

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Mar 7, 2013 2:15:22 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: SportCarGroup

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

SportCarGroup:

Thanks! Has anyone seen one of these cut-away illustrations of the new GT3 motor?

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

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Mar 7, 2013 2:17:51 PM

SportCarGroup: Expert; Loc: IL , Israel; Posts: 1834, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2012; Reply to: Grant

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Like this?

--

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Mar 7, 2013 2:31:10 PM

sfo: Rennteam Pro; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 2093, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 17, 2011; Reply to: SportCarGroup

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

good to see the separate oil tank.

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Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

2014 Porsche 911 GT3 -- 2013 Geneva Auto Show -- Edmunds

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

Re: OFFICIAL: New 911 GT3 (991)

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