Crown

A little peak under the skirts ... New protection sheet metal. I am told 964 and 993s had something similar.

997 GT3 - 550M - 355 GTS F1 - Prius - Audi S5 Sportback

zeshark:

A little peak under the skirts ... New protection sheet metal. I am told 964 and 993s had something similar.

993 has a plastic tray that most people removed.

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Jean:

Grant:

Jean:

DFI engines have been plagued with leaking problems since the introduction.

What sort of leaks?  I've only heard of the carbon build-up issue.

I should have said M96 or 9A1 instead of DFI.

Infamous RMS seal leak

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/08/porsches-deadly-sin-1-1999-porsche-911-996-3-4/

9A1 

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/10000064-post66.html

 

The 9A1 is the DFI motor.  That link referenced a failure, but not a leak as far as I could tell.  I'm well aware of the RMS leaks in the M96.  The 9A1 does not have this problem at all, afaik.  But track failures sounds bad...

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Something VERY WRONG with Swiss pricing again !!!

In Germany , including 19% tax : Euro : 137 300 .-  = CHF 171'000.-   Excluding tax : CHF 143700.-

In Switzerland , including 8% tax : CHF 190'000 .-     Excluding tax : CHF 175'900 .-  That is about 22% more expensive !!

I thaught Swiss pricing had been adapted now ( and they are on the Carrera , Turbo ( 997 ) , but it seems that they choose not to do it on the Gt3 , probably thinking customers will less likely buy the car on the foreign markets.

This is bad again for our local market and will mess up the Porsche distribution again !!! 

Porsche : do not be surprised  if we get lots of US imported cars again ( like we did with the 997 )   or that people buy their Gt3's in Germany . All this messing up the local market !

This difference is not acceptable .

--

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

I think the swiss dealers are still offering a currency exchange discount, did you include this?

2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2

I did not see any currency discount. I will have to ask the dealer for that and I really hope they are doing it , otherwise .....

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Gnil:

Something VERY WRONG with Swiss pricing again !!!

In Germany , including 19% tax : Euro : 137 300 .-  = CHF 171'000.-

In Switzerland , including 8% tax : CHF 190'000 .-    That is about 12% more expensive !!

This difference is not acceptable .

Well, that's because of your "Abzocker-Initiative". Less Boni = higher prices in first place.

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Gnil:

I did not see any currency discount. I will have to ask the dealer for that and I really hope they are doing it , otherwise .....

http://www.porscheswisspackage.ch/de/911.html

Kursabhängige Währungsausgleichsprämie on the 991

2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2

Regarding the engine, I don't think that Preuninger would risk his good reputation by claiming things which aren't true. He seems to be very enthusiastic about the new engine and yes, Porsche will use this DFi engine, in race cars too. It is just a matter of time. The production of the old Mezger design has become too expensive, this is nothing new and since Porsche switched the 911 Turbo engine to DFi too, the Mezger engine is even more expensive for them to produce because they lack the larger production numbers. The new engine is not the same engine as in the 997 Carrera, the modifications are extensive and the engine should be race proof. Just in case you forgot....9000 rpm. Do I need to say more?!

I don't say the new engine will be perfect from the beginning, so many things can go wrong and after a year, the first issues should appear but this always happen with new engines, this is nothing new. Let's just hope that no serious problem occurs and I also hope that the new PDK does what it is supposed to do and Preuninger seems to be very enthusiastic about PDK too, which is a good thing. I think we need to take him by his word.

Regarding the amazing acceleration time of 3.5 seconds from 0-100 kph and "under 12 seconds" (I heard that some test cars did 11 seconds flat ) from 0-200 kph, PDK makes a huge difference but also the fact that this car not only has a launch control but also the electronics from traction management to engine to PDK are perfectly synced together, allowing maximum acceleration. The new GT3 is full of electronics, we should forget that and they do of course their magic. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Gnil:

Something VERY WRONG with Swiss pricing again !!!

In Germany , including 19% tax : Euro : 137 300 .-  = CHF 171'000.-   Excluding tax : CHF 143700.-

In Switzerland , including 8% tax : CHF 190'000 .-     Excluding tax : CHF 175'900 .-  That is about 22% more expensive !!

I thaught Swiss pricing had been adapted now ( and they are on the Carrera , Turbo ( 997 ) , but it seems that they choose not to do it on the Gt3 , probably thinking customers will less likely buy the car on the foreign markets.

This is bad again for our local market and will mess up the Porsche distribution again !!! 

Porsche : do not be surprised  if we get lots of US imported cars again ( like we did with the 997 )   or that people buy their Gt3's in Germany . All this messing up the local market !

This difference is not acceptable .

--

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

i just read in the newspaper from today that the GT3 will cost in Switzerland 220'000.- so ouch this is something to check at the Geneva car show.

i also heard that if you are Porsche VIP client, at the Car show,  Porsche and the Restaurant they ask to work with them has only put 8 tables for a lunch snack and this only for the VIP customers. The others clients will have the rest on the first floor from the VIP client. ( NO i'm been snicky by saying this last part) but it's true They did one floor for normal customer and one floor for VIP.

i'll see that tomorrow

 997 GT3,Cayenne S, Cooper S & VW Cross Polo

zeshark:

A little peak under the skirts ... New protection sheet metal. I am told 964 and 993s had something similar.

Not very GT3ish to add weight like that... Probably hiding the shame that is no Mezger....

RC:

He seems to be very enthusiastic about the new engine and

Preuninger seems to be very enthusiastic about PDK too

AP works for Porsche .. he's never going to say the new engine and PDK is not wonderful and perfect in every way for all ocassions.

sfo:

RC:

He seems to be very enthusiastic about the new engine and

Preuninger seems to be very enthusiastic about PDK too

AP works for Porsche .. he's never going to say the new engine and PDK is not wonderful and perfect in every way for all ocassions.

Yet he wouldn't be drawn on the appearance of this engine in a Cup car in the Evo interview... So its track worthy yet not Cup worthy???... AP is on the books and a part of their marketing machine, a sales person with a title... Lost total respect for him after his claims about CLs on the 997.2 being implemented for weight and motorsport reasons... Yet the can't be rattled on/off  and leave cars 50lbs lighter when a wheel flys off... I see no permanent fix by Porsche for existing customers, yet 991 customers will now have to enjoy the same "benefits"

I have to say that I am deeply dissapointed with some negative commetns about new GT3 here.

Specially regarding new REAl dry sump engine. So, Mezger is a reference? Ok, I can accept that it is proven base even for motorsport but... How about some technical facts?

Mezger can not use DFI.

Mezger can not be mated to any gearbox, but to manual and very old 5 speed MB automatic(997.1 Turbo).

Mezger can not use latest gen of engine control electronics(networked systems).

So, what did people here with negative comments expect from new 991 GT3?

Something like old Mezger 4.0L with 500ps, old 6 speed manual, NO SPASM-but conventional adjustable sport suspension, rear LSD good old 50% mechanical lock etc??

Car like that already exist and you can buy it on used car market.

BTW, nobody noticed few very nice things about new GT3:

-PDK is fully reworked, both mechanically and with extensive software/CPU redesign(from the scratch!)

-top speed is in 7th gear and overall ratio is much shorter then on normal PDK. Overall gearbox is tuned a la DCT on 458 and it is offering razor sharp response at any speed

For me personally new 991 GT3 is more then I expected from technical point of view. Exterior is debatable as always.

the proof of how good the 991 GT3 is will be in how reliable it is, and whether it stands up to lots of track day use

it may be fabulously quick with the latest tech, but that's no good if it keeps going wrong.

Kreso, you are ill informed about the Mezger... All those items you claim it can't do are only limited by the engineers... A bell housing to mate to a pdk is a 5 minute job... Any brand of sensor, DFI etc can be added to any engine if the time and money are allocated to the task. They chose NOT to because of the supposed "COSTS" involved... Even AP said clearly that COST was 50% of the reason the Mezger is no longer here... Yet COST seems not to be an issue where theire racing program is concerned?

Regretfully 4.0RSs are not a dime a dozen... Only 6 were allocated to the whole of Australia and one was totalled. Not exactly an item one finds on the used car market... Just saying....

Technically, the car may be fine but will it be reliable considering its a track focused car, that is the question that nobody but time can answer...

sfo:

the proof of how good the 991 GT3 is will be in how reliable it is, and whether it stands up to lots of track day use

it may be fabulously quick with the latest tech, but that's no good if it keeps going wrong.

Bang, bang!!! Big high five for sfo.... exactly right!

KresoF1:

I have to say that I am deeply dissapointed with some negative commetns about new GT3 here.

Specially regarding new REAl dry sump engine. So, Mezger is a reference? Ok, I can accept that it is proven base even for motorsport but... How about some technical facts?

Mezger can not use DFI.

Mezger can not be mated to any gearbox, but to manual and very old 5 speed MB automatic(997.1 Turbo).

Mezger can not use latest gen of engine control electronics(networked systems).

So, what did people here with negative comments expect from new 991 GT3?

Something like old Mezger 4.0L with 500ps, old 6 speed manual, NO SPASM-but conventional adjustable sport suspension, rear LSD good old 50% mechanical lock etc??

Car like that already exist and you can buy it on used car market.

BTW, nobody noticed few very nice things about new GT3:

-PDK is fully reworked, both mechanically and with extensive software/CPU redesign(from the scratch!)

-top speed is in 7th gear and overall ratio is much shorter then on normal PDK. Overall gearbox is tuned a la DCT on 458 and it is offering razor sharp response at any speed

For me personally new 991 GT3 is more then I expected from technical point of view. Exterior is debatable as always.

sfo:

the proof of how good the 991 GT3 is will be in how reliable it is, and whether it stands up to lots of track day use

it may be fabulously quick with the latest tech, but that's no good if it keeps going wrong.

You presume that the new engine hasn't been track tested very extensively

I have a feeling that it has done the NBR 24 Hours several times over plus many hours of flat out in Nardo (Porsche owned since a year ago) , before being released in the GT3.

The Mezger is a hero of the past. Let it rest in glory.

--

"Form follows function"

KresoF1:

I have to say that I am deeply dissapointed with some negative commetns about new GT3 here.

Specially regarding new REAl dry sump engine. So, Mezger is a reference? Ok, I can accept that it is proven base even for motorsport but... How about some technical facts?

Mezger can not use DFI.

Mezger can not be mated to any gearbox, but to manual and very old 5 speed MB automatic(997.1 Turbo).

Mezger can not use latest gen of engine control electronics(networked systems).

So, what did people here with negative comments expect from new 991 GT3?

Something like old Mezger 4.0L with 500ps, old 6 speed manual, NO SPASM-but conventional adjustable sport suspension, rear LSD good old 50% mechanical lock etc??

Car like that already exist and you can buy it on used car market.

BTW, nobody noticed few very nice things about new GT3:

-PDK is fully reworked, both mechanically and with extensive software/CPU redesign(from the scratch!)

-top speed is in 7th gear and overall ratio is much shorter then on normal PDK. Overall gearbox is tuned a la DCT on 458 and it is offering razor sharp response at any speed

For me personally new 991 GT3 is more then I expected from technical point of view. Exterior is debatable as always.

Guys, who don't like the new gt3 - dont buy it, whats a problem) Buy a used 997.

sportcars-history.com

reginos:

sfo:

the proof of how good the 991 GT3 is will be in how reliable it is, and whether it stands up to lots of track day use

it may be fabulously quick with the latest tech, but that's no good if it keeps going wrong.

You presume that the new engine hasn't been track tested very extensively

I have a feeling that it has done the NBR 24 Hours several times over plus many hours of flat out in Nardo (Porsche owned since a year ago) , before being released in the GT3.

The Mezger is a hero of the past. Let it rest in glory.

--

"Form follows function"

I hope VW, ooops I mean Porsche will enter the new 991 GT3 in the next NBR 24 hour to prove its abilities to us, the customers against race cars... Surely with its newest and funkiest technology it will be able to finish the race, no? Or maybe even place at a respectable placing as its predecessor did?

Proof is in the pudding!

KresoF1:

I have to say that I am deeply dissapointed with some negative commetns about new GT3 here.

 

Can`t understand either this "991 GT3 criticism"...   

Why sould the GT3 be stuck in the past?....

Less talk, more action is required from Porsche... Respect is earned. When they enter and complete a NBR 24 hour with the GT3, many of my concerns about the new car will be put to rest... I don't accept everything I hear as being true and correct just because somebody says so...

reginos:

sfo:

the proof of how good the 991 GT3 is will be in how reliable it is, and whether it stands up to lots of track day use

it may be fabulously quick with the latest tech, but that's no good if it keeps going wrong.

You presume that the new engine hasn't been track tested very extensively

I have a feeling that it has done the NBR 24 Hours several times over plus many hours of flat out in Nardo (Porsche owned since a year ago) , before being released in the GT3.

The Mezger is a hero of the past. Let it rest in glory.

--

"Form follows function"

 testing and more testing does not find everything, otherwise cars would be perfect.

my post mentioned nothing about the Mezger, it was about the new engine proving itself in the years to come.

911rox:

Less talk, more action is required from Porsche... Respect is earned. When they enter and complete a NBR 24 hour with the GT3, many of my concerns about the new car will be put to rest... I don't accept everything I hear as being true and correct just because somebody says so...

I have a strong believe that in Porsche they have people that know what they're doing and it`s not only "marketing jobs"...

Why does the 991 Cup have a Mezger? Preuninger did not answer. Would be interesting to know.

The car looks nice, personally I dislike the 20in wheels. The Cup on 18in wheels looked better to me.

best, w

Does anyone remember when Preuninger started calling the Mezger GT3 and GT2RS engine "the Motorsport engine" when it was fitted to GT3s  and when the GT2RS got it instead of the A91 turbo motor which they could not make reliable enough over 570PS (source inside Porsche engineers )

Now it seems the "Motorsport engine" has gone strictly for Motorsport (it is mentioned in the same damn press release as the GT3 ) and the GT3 gets a souped up Carrera S lump - as has been said, this motor needs to earn its spurs in the 24hr scene, Preuninger seemed to say that it would and that will be great but until it has happened one has to be sceptical as everything Porsche does is about making big margins and doing away with the costly Motorsport engine increases that considerably......

People forget pre 1999 ALL 911s got the "Motorsport engine" and one could thrash the living daylights out of them all day and night for years and then they would still run full power (or sometimes even more) on the dyno - the damn things hardly wore out at all

3.9  GT2 2011 make over

pjd:

911rox:

Less talk, more action is required from Porsche... Respect is earned. When they enter and complete a NBR 24 hour with the GT3, many of my concerns about the new car will be put to rest... I don't accept everything I hear as being true and correct just because somebody says so...

I have a strong believe that in Porsche they have people that know what they're doing and it`s not only "marketing jobs"...

 Porsche's marketing is one of the most professional and slick.

Loving the "donut-option" on the PDK, I really miss a function like that on my CSL's SMG. It really must add a layer of control that otherwise gets lost when deleting a manual option. Well done by Porsche!

thank God that I've got the Mezger engine in my 2004 Cayenne, 110k on the clock and still going strong