Crown

Thanks 911rox. I hope so too!

911rox:

Nope 

We're entitled to do as we please personally RC but as a key person on this forum, you owe it to those reading and learning to give them the correct information, not how you personally may intend to approach the situation... I'm sure that nobody here will appreciate 100000 hits on youtube for having being misinformed and having lost a wheel... 

According to AP, Porsche is handling the CL generously. So if you are affected, I am pretty sure that Porsche is taking care of you in a way or another. If you are not happy with your situation or how it has been handled so far, tell Porsche, not only your dealer. I know that Porsche monitors these forums (like they do with others too) but you put way too much importance into my presence here. I'm not a key person in this forum, more like a jester who tries to keep a balance between entertainment and information, everything else is done by guys like you, the users. I wish I could help you directly in a way or another or I wish I had more influence upon Porsche but in the end, I am in the same boat with you and the other guys, I am a customer. Also my next car, the 991 Turbo S, will have CL. Go figure... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)

I do appreciate your kind words and all that could be done, has been done to date. I'm content with my outcome. Because you are so well hooked up with Porsche sources, your opinion has far more weight than most of ours on this forum and I would hate for someone to misconstrue a statement made on this forum and do something other than what Porsche have now decreed is mandatory... The consequences could be disastrous... That's all, I assure you it isn't personal.

Frayed - Love your posts and glad you are back.  Couple of points (it was a long weekend and I am way behind).  First of all I meant the 997 Cup Car type sequential manual for the GT3 RS not crap like the F1 tranny.  I am assuming the 991 Cup car will have one so dev costs should be not too high.  Yes it would be a bitch the streets but then again it is a GT3 RS and not meant to be that street friendly.  It would certainly gain some extra credit for being quick and reliable.  I bet it would be faster and lighter than the PDK (else why would they race that rather than PDK?)  Is that not a valid point?  Second - no idea how you would know, but girls in the Midwest are just as hot (or not) as anywhere else.  The Lake of the Ozarks has more million dollar mansions than you will ever imagine, not to mention the huge boats, hence the hot girls line up and are incredible.  I will however spare you naked pictures of the 24 year old former Ms Kansas who spent the weekend with my GF and me (and checked off a few items on both our bucket lists) - some things are better left to your imagination.  There is more to life than PDK.  That said, I would not mind a GT3, just would be bored with PDK on the street.  Love the manual - that is my choice.  I really would not care if I was the only one on this board who feels that way.  Not swayed by popular opinion of fads.  What a fun discussion.  Cheers all.

 

Stupid question (maybe I am wrong): Didn't Chris Harris sell his manual GT3 RS 4.0 and exchanged it with a Ferrari 599 GTB without manual? OK, he sold his 599 GTB recently and he didn't like the gearbox in the 599 (I wonder why he bought the 599 then???) but I cannot help it: I think he is getting a 991 GT3. With PDK. Wanna bet? 

Yes, you are correct.  Not sure why the move from a 4.0 to 599 is relevant.  The move to the 599 could be for a myriad of reasons, and to single out the gearbox issue to me is myopic.

You think CH will own a GT3 pdk despite lamenting the passing of the manual?

I'll take that bet.  I'll be back in Germany in the fall; perhaps we can clarify our wager over a beer or two. 

991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff

CH is a realist. He knows that MT is dead and if he wants to own high performance cars there is no alternative but to buy with PDK or the like.

FWIW, it is understandable that some of these highly regarded journalist lament the passing of the MT. They grew up with it and to say they will miss the MT is nothing more than being nostalgic. 

Leawood911:

Frayed - Love your posts and glad you are back.  Couple of points (it was a long weekend and I am way behind).  First of all I meant the 997 Cup Car type sequential manual for the GT3 RS not crap like the F1 tranny.  I am assuming the 991 Cup car will have one so dev costs should be not too high.  Yes it would be a bitch the streets but then again it is a GT3 RS and not meant to be that street friendly.  It would certainly gain some extra credit for being quick and reliable.  I bet it would be faster and lighter than the PDK (else why would they race that rather than PDK?)  Is that not a valid point?  Second - no idea how you would know, but girls in the Midwest are just as hot (or not) as anywhere else.  The Lake of the Ozarks has more million dollar mansions than you will ever imagine, not to mention the huge boats, hence the hot girls line up and are incredible.  I will however spare you naked pictures of the 24 year old former Ms Kansas who spent the weekend with my GF and me (and checked off a few items on both our bucket lists) - some things are better left to your imagination.  There is more to life than PDK.  That said, I would not mind a GT3, just would be bored with PDK on the street.  Love the manual - that is my choice.  I really would not care if I was the only one on this board who feels that way.  Not swayed by popular opinion of fads.  What a fun discussion.  Cheers all.

Lol Lea, just kidding about the Kansas girls.  I'm sure they are hot.  I prefer saltwater to lake action, but that would be a bit of a commute for you. 

Sequentials just aren't made for street; but intensely durable and fast for a track car.  Lighter?  IDK but probably.  PDK was not developed for racing no matter what the marketing literature states.  As they say Horses for Courses.

991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff

RC:

Stupid question (maybe I am wrong): Didn't Chris Harris sell his manual GT3 RS 4.0 and exchanged it with a Ferrari 599 GTB without manual? OK, he sold his 599 GTB recently and he didn't like the gearbox in the 599 (I wonder why he bought the 599 then???) but I cannot help it: I think he is getting a 991 GT3. With PDK. Wanna bet? 

Yes, CH did sell his 4.0, but my understanding is that it was a financial decision more than anything.  He was offered more than he paid and he had stretched himself quite a bit for that purchase (I almost did the same and wish I had).  I think he incorrectly calculated that when the 991 GT3 was released it would have a manual option and render his investment in the 4.0 less valuable.  So, he thought he was selling at the top of the market - he ended up being wrong...

I think he would've kept the 4.0 had he known the 991 GT3 would be PDK-only...

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

frayed:

Leawood911:

Frayed - Love your posts and glad you are back.  Couple of points (it was a long weekend and I am way behind).  First of all I meant the 997 Cup Car type sequential manual for the GT3 RS not crap like the F1 tranny.  I am assuming the 991 Cup car will have one so dev costs should be not too high.  Yes it would be a bitch the streets but then again it is a GT3 RS and not meant to be that street friendly.  It would certainly gain some extra credit for being quick and reliable.  I bet it would be faster and lighter than the PDK (else why would they race that rather than PDK?)  Is that not a valid point?  Second - no idea how you would know, but girls in the Midwest are just as hot (or not) as anywhere else.  The Lake of the Ozarks has more million dollar mansions than you will ever imagine, not to mention the huge boats, hence the hot girls line up and are incredible. 

Lol Lea, just kidding about the Kansas girls.  I'm sure they are hot.  I prefer saltwater to lake action, but that would be a bit of a commute for you. 

Sequentials just aren't made for street; but intensely durable and fast for a track car.  Lighter?  IDK but probably.  PDK was not developed for racing no matter what the marketing literature states.  As they say Horses for Courses.

I understand that the full race sequential manual transmission in the 991 Cup Car may note be perfect for the street but it may be modified enough to make it street able. Most of it is naturally due to the racing clutch they use.  Replace that with a street / racing clutch and you have the best of all worlds - you have a clutch used for when stopped and downshifting for better braking/clutch coordination (trail-braking) and you have rapid/direct clutch-less upshifts with Launch control.  Use still can use the clutch for upshift when being 'Normal and sedate'.  Not too mention you can 'select' neutral in a spin when you may not be able to reach both paddles. Make it light and durable and PDK users will drool over the RS with that box!  Just saying.  The GT2 RS would be better for it as well.  Make them less soft and more like the racing car.  For years that awesome racing box has been the main difference from the street GT3.  "If you are gonna be a bear, be a GRIZZLY"      Imagine how much fun a box like that could be for daily use if made a touch less radical in terms of the on/off racing clutch.  Lightning fast upshift w/o clutch - best of PDK and still a clutch to allow the driver to perform perfect downshifts.

I wonder why Audi (same parent as Porsche) has decided to offer Manual on its raciest model ever now (never was available before on the GT):

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/06/17/2014-audi-r8-gt-zooming-toward-le-mans-reveal/

Last of the gated manuals and hydraulic steering from VW?

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

I understand that the full race sequential manual transmission in the 991 Cup Car may note be perfect for the street but it may be modified enough to make it street able. Most of it is naturally due to the racing clutch they use.  Replace that with a street / racing clutch and you have the best of all worlds - you have a clutch used for when stopped and downshifting for better braking/clutch coordination (trail-braking) and you have rapid/direct clutch-less upshifts with Launch control.  Use still can use the clutch for upshift when being 'Normal and sedate'.  Not too mention you can 'select' neutral in a spin when you may not be able to reach both paddles. Make it light and durable and PDK users will drool over the RS with that box!  Just saying.  The GT2 RS would be better for it as well.  Make them less soft and more like the racing car.  For years that awesome racing box has been the main difference from the street GT3.  "If you are gonna be a bear, be a GRIZZLY"      Imagine how much fun a box like that could be for daily use if made a touch less radical in terms of the on/off racing clutch.  Lightning fast upshift w/o clutch - best of PDK and still a clutch to allow the driver to perform perfect downshifts.

The Aventador has a gear box that it closest to a sequential transmission of any car that I have driven.  There were a number of reasons I did not love the Aventador and the gear box is one of them.  The DCTs are better than this gearbox.  At low speeds it is uncomfortable and at high speeds it is a beast (bucking the car back and forth).  My cars are weekend toys as I live in a big city, so I don't speak from the perspective of a daily driver.  But given the choice of the Aventador gearbox, a manual and a DCT, I would put the Aventador gearbox last (IMHO).  (Just to note - I love the looks of the Aventador, especially the roadster, but it is a strange mix of a car.  It is so stable with its four wheel drive and heaviness - much like an Audi in my opinion.  The engine and the gearbox are the pure Lambo parts.  Almost like they used the gearbox to retain some of that historical Lambo punch). 

Grant:

I wonder why Audi (same parent as Porsche) has decided to offer Manual on its raciest model ever now (never was available before on the GT):

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/06/17/2014-audi-r8-gt-zooming-toward-le-mans-reveal/

Last of the gated manuals and hydraulic steering from VW?

To attract buyers to the cars that's stuck in no mans land? Not quite cheap enough for the lower market, not quite prestige enough to compete in the higher market?

An interesting comment on the new CL system by Andreas Preuninger (not sure if this has been posted yet, didn't have to re-check all the previous posts, sorry):

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

An interesting comment on the new CL system by Andreas Preuninger (not sure if this has been posted yet, didn't have to re-check all the previous posts, sorry):

I was surprised to see the McLaren P1 offered as a 5 nut system.  I believe CL was an option on the 12C but I don't think it is on the P1.  I wonder if they had similar issues.

CL was never an option for the 12C, 5 lug all the way.

OK - thanks Whoopsy.  I could not remember for sure

Whoopsy:

CL was never an option for the 12C, 5 lug all the way.

AP actually said (through the flower) that CL on street models was actually more of a "good looks" feature than something really useful but I guess they really think it is worth it, otherwise they wouldn't have offered it for the next gen GT3 and Turbo/Turbo S.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Whoopsy:

Grant:

I wonder why Audi (same parent as Porsche) has decided to offer Manual on its raciest model ever now (never was available before on the GT):

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/06/17/2014-audi-r8-gt-zooming-toward-le-mans-reveal/

Last of the gated manuals and hydraulic steering from VW?

 

To attract buyers to the cars that's stuck in no mans land? Not quite cheap enough for the lower market, not quite prestige enough to compete in the higher market?

 

The Audi R8 has sufficient market traction with sales numbers much greater than that of the Gallardo, so there is a market for the car, though it is not a Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren.  One is not a bit surprised by Audi offering a manual transmission since Lamborghini did a final production run of the Gallardo touting the manual.

The rumor mill is spinning on stories of the Jaguar F-type coupe offering a manual.  If it a decent box, one would imagine a sales uptick since the car is gorgeous with a classic British car layout.  Hope Tata gets the reliability right this time.

CGX car nut:
The rumor mill is spinning on stories of the Jaguar F-type coupe offering a manual.  If it a decent box, one would imagine a sales uptick since the car is gorgeous with a classic British car layout.  Hope Tata gets the reliability right this time.

I heard from the Jaguar reps at the Denver Auto Show that Manual and Coupe versions were always scheduled from the start (stepped rollout of later versions)...

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Grant:

CGX car nut:
The rumor mill is spinning on stories of the Jaguar F-type coupe offering a manual.  If it a decent box, one would imagine a sales uptick since the car is gorgeous with a classic British car layout.  Hope Tata gets the reliability right this time.

I heard from the Jaguar reps at the Denver Auto Show that Manual and Coupe versions were always scheduled from the start (stepped rollout of later versions)...

I've driven both the V6S and the V8 and found the V6S better balanced but the V8 is a noisy beast.  Still not sure if I want to change from a Porsche 997 to an F-type.

We had a very short (car had only a very low fuel level and due to the "late" hour (5.30 pm), dealer allowed only a 5 minutes drive "around the block" because he closes at 6 pm. ) I was quite disappointed because I actually thought he would give us the car over the weekend but apparently there was some misunderstanding and weekends are reserved for "good" previous customers only.  So I enjoyed a couple of minutes of a very nice sound (V8S) but the car felt a bit like my Panamera Turbo S and it is also bigger than I thought. Of course a five minute testdrive is worth nothing, so I am going to try another one, at least for an hour or so. My wife likes how the car looks but she didn't realize how big it is, so I guess she is even more in love now...with the Boxster. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)

RC:

We had a very short (car had only a very low fuel level and due to the "late" hour (5.30 pm), dealer allowed only a 5 minutes drive "around the block" because he closes at 6 pm. ) I was quite disappointed because I actually thought he would give us the car over the weekend but apparently there was some misunderstanding and weekends are reserved for "good" previous customers only.  So I enjoyed a couple of minutes of a very nice sound (V8S) but the car felt a bit like my Panamera Turbo S and it is also bigger than I thought. Of course a five minute testdrive is worth nothing, so I am going to try another one, at least for an hour or so. My wife likes how the car looks but she didn't realize how big it is, so I guess she is even more in love now...with the Boxster. 

Size, in the States, is relative as it remains one of the smaller vehicles on the road.  The car has potential, and I agree that with the ZF 8-speed it is more a grand tourer than sports car, so the analogy with the Panamera Turbo S is understandable.  I've only driven the F-type on the street and not on the track so my comments relate to moderate speeds.

nberry:

CH is a realist. He knows that MT is dead and if he wants to own high performance cars there is no alternative but to buy with PDK or the like.

FWIW, it is understandable that some of these highly regarded journalist lament the passing of the MT. They grew up with it and to say they will miss the MT is nothing more than being nostalgic. 

Swing and a miss!

CH hated the transmission in the Fiat.  He said it was the weakest/worst part of the car and said it will suffer from astronomical depreciation b/c the box really sucks.

I never liked the gearbox. I learned to tolerate it, but driving a 458 back to back confirmed that this generation of automated manual 'boxes will be despised in future years. I can see 599s dropping even further because of the unfriendly transmission whereas the rare manual cars could end up being very valuable as the last manual V12 Berlinetta to leave the factory. Didn't DK Engineering flog one for some vast price recently?

991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff

Grant:

I wonder why Audi (same parent as Porsche) has decided to offer Manual on its raciest model ever now (never was available before on the GT):

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/06/17/2014-audi-r8-gt-zooming-toward-le-mans-reveal/

Last of the gated manuals and hydraulic steering from VW?

Now Autoblog is reporting (the same day that it said next GT version of R8 would have Manual) that the NEXT generation R8 and Gallardo (and maybe 960 by extension) will also have Manual option.

Hmm, first I heard of manual making it to next gen.  Autoblog is either making
some big news today or getting its facts wrong...

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/06/17/lamborghini-to-show-gallardo-replacement-concept-in-frankfurt/


 

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

Grant:

Grant:

I wonder why Audi (same parent as Porsche) has decided to offer Manual on its raciest model ever now (never was available before on the GT):

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/06/17/2014-audi-r8-gt-zooming-toward-le-mans-reveal/

Last of the gated manuals and hydraulic steering from VW?

Now Autoblog is reporting (the same day that it said next GT version of R8 would have Manual) that the NEXT generation R8 and Gallardo (and maybe 960 by extension) will also have Manual option.

Hmm, first I heard of manual making it to next gen.  Autoblog is either making
some big news today or getting its facts wrong...

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/06/17/lamborghini-to-show-gallardo-replacement-concept-in-frankfurt/


 

Past history would suggest the latter.

frayed:

nberry:

CH is a realist. He knows that MT is dead and if he wants to own high performance cars there is no alternative but to buy with PDK or the like.

FWIW, it is understandable that some of these highly regarded journalist lament the passing of the MT. They grew up with it and to say they will miss the MT is nothing more than being nostalgic. 

Swing and a miss!

CH hated the transmission in the Fiat.  He said it was the weakest/worst part of the car and said it will suffer from astronomical depreciation b/c the box really sucks.

 

I never liked the gearbox. I learned to tolerate it, but driving a 458 back to back confirmed that this generation of automated manual 'boxes will be despised in future years. I can see 599s dropping even further because of the unfriendly transmission whereas the rare manual cars could end up being very valuable as the last manual V12 Berlinetta to leave the factory. Didn't DK Engineering flog one for some vast price recently?

Think about it. CH buys the car (599) which I am sure he had test driven many times before his purchased. He keeps it for 10 months and realizes it was not a good purchase form a financial point of view. So he writes his readers why he sold the car and suddenly has an epiphany that the transmission is garbage. With his experience and car knowledge it did not know that before he bought the car? Come on don't be gullible. 

Additionally, his video review of the GT3 goes out of his way to heap praise on the PDK-S. Is he not aware that the model for the PDK-S was the 458 transmission which he earlier called garbage? No; CH knows and understand where this is headed. He may still prefer MT but recognizes that ship has sailed.

Nick you live in your own world.  Good grief.

In his original post about the 599 he stated he didn't like the transmission.  His story never changed during his 10 month affair.

Occam's Razor my friend.  ;)

991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff

frayed:

Nick you live in your own world.  Good grief.

In his original post about the 599 he stated he didn't like the transmission.  His story never changed during his 10 month affair.

Occam's Razor my friend.  ;)

I kind of have to agree with Nick. I don't buy CH's financial reasons for selling his GT3 RS 4.0, considering the comments he made after he sold his 599, apparently at a big loss. Why did he buy the 599 in the first place, he knows the car, he knows many cars. He loved the GT3 RS 4.0 when he got it, he also loved the 599 GTB when he got it but now he wants to move on with something new. I get his reasons behind that but I also don't believe CH that he didn't know what he is getting into. He is way too clever for that. So I think Nick is right (there...I said it...I just bit on my tongue... ). CH doesn't have many choices here, so I guess the 991 GT3 it will be. Would make sense.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)

Like I said I'll take that bet RC.

I went through 6 911's, 1 Ferrari, 2 BMWs in 5 years.

I know automotive ADD better than most.  CH has it; you guys are trying to find logic in his missteps.  There is none to be found. 

991 GT3 incoming, 964 Turbo 3.6, E36 M3 ltw S54 conversion, bunch of other stuff

CH bought the 599 thinking the bottom has been reached for pricing, he was wrong.

I believe the 599 has the automatic manual gearbox, not a dual clutch, so the feel would be completely different, but even with the inferior gearbox, it is still a fantastic car to drive, it's a especially capable long distance GT cruiser.