Crown

easy_rider911:

Personally, I consider the 991 GT3 to be a superb car on paper which may or may not prove to be a great car to own, depending upon how lucky you are. But IMO, a great ownership experience should not depend on luck, especially not when you're spending upwards of £100k. And compensation IMO is never as good as having an immaculate experience from day 1.

You could argue in exactly the same way before you bought your Gen I 997. There were lots of horror stories then and lots of replacement M96 engines.

Apparently then, Porsche couldn't afford a total recall due to large the numbers involved. With the GT3 due to the small production and the fact that this is a defining car for the brand they decided a full scale recall.

Like you went on to buy your current car and have been enjoying a trouble free experience,relax and get the GT3 if this is what you like. Life is too short for unnecessary dilemmas.

--

"Form follows function"

I've had my car back a month and use it as a daily driver and enjoying every moment  

Porsche-Jeck:

reginos:

Could you please be more specific for the sake of accuracy of information?

 

Reginos, at this point it would be pure speculation to tell whether it's the "old" issue, a new one, a systematic issue or just "random" (bad luck with a "Monday" car..). Hence the two incidents may be not significant (from a statistical point of view) but it is more than understandable that people get scared due to the initial fiasko with the GT3 engines. And indeed I know quite a number of Porschephiles (track buddies) who initially have been looking forward to place an order but then backed off due to lack of "courage" (that would include myself ) It may be worthwhile to observe the market for 997 GTx cars....

I understand others' worries. However, if I were in a location that I could fully exploit/enjoy a GT3 I wouldn't think twice about getting one.

On a side note, I understand that the GT3 engine requires a careful running in procedure. Max 7.000 rpm initially. Could it be that some owners are anxious to fully exploit the whole rev range? 

"Form follows function"

reginos:

On a side note, I understand that the GT3 engine requires a careful running in procedure. Max 7.000 rpm initially. Could it be that some owners are anxious to fully exploit the whole rev range? 

In this case I am sure Porsche wouldn't swap engines under warranty - finally they can read out electronically all the relevant data.

public roads: Porsche 981S white/black/red, toll road  : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

This whole thread has turned stupid IMO.

I have one of the early 991 GT3. November 2013 build. I flew to Europe picked it up in winder and drove it almost 4000 km without a single issue. My videos are on youtube. It was sublime in every way.

I ship the car to NZ and once it arrives there is an official recall. I wait three months and get a brand new engine and compensation same as the Swiss customers (my car was first registered there). I am very very happy!

I pick up my new car with new engine and I drive for 500-600km. It is an amazing car. Better than my 993RS in many ways. I take it on 10 quick laps of my local racetrack at 600km and no issues. I am with my friend who spends the whole day on the track with his 991 GT3 (I also had my 993 there and was running in new diff and gearbox so didnt get much time) and not a single issue. 9000rpm redline shifts hardly run in. Just used some oil.

So one car out of 785 replacement engines has gone bang but we have no idea why and we are hearing about it not from the owner but second hand through his friend? So what? I had a mate whos 4.0RS needed a new engine within 2 weeks of delivery! Plenty of 3.8RS engines have been replaced under warranty. Maybe the dealer who installed the engine forgot to connect the harness right and something ran foul?

To start making an internet rumour snowball out of this is just plain crazy and anyone who aids in doing this without facts is simply trying to damage the brand they say they love. Im sorry but anyone who owns a 997 Gt3 who suddenly pops up here telling tales of multiple 991 Gt3 failures doesnt wash with me either no matter how "sincere" they are. We have so many "trolls" on other boards already.

The GT3 engine may be fixed but it still lives with the tolerances of a man made machine (1-3% failure?). Nothing can be done to change that unless you are a devine being!

Just be careful you are talking with facts before you condemn Porsche again. the 991 GT3 has been nothing but perfect in the 5000km I have driven this in two countries and fast road and track.

Heres my prediction. Production will cease shortly after December for 991 GT3. 991 GT3RS will be released at Paris and production will start 01 March (this car is not being late for any sinister reason other than an appropriate launch venue and of course delays due to the 991 GT3 engine replacements). Therefore 991 GT3 production will remain at all time low of maybe 1300-1500 units total - similar or lower than 996.1 GT3. The car is fantastic there is no doubt - a big advance on the GT3 before if you are honest and not biased. Porsche will move to hybrid/turbo by end of 991 production and GT3 moniker will be abandoned so 991 GT3 in small volumes unloved after its launch due to the engine issue will in time become very valuable asset for those who still have one (not me probably). Just my thought and predictions. Porsche collectors and watch collectors  will tell you something low volume and unloved when it was made often ends up being highly collectable and very valuable in the future....

macca993:

This whole thread has turned stupid IMO.

I have one of the early 991 GT3. November 2013 build. I flew to Europe picked it up in winder and drove it almost 4000 km without a single issue. My videos are on youtube. It was sublime in every way.

I ship the car to NZ and once it arrives there is an official recall. I wait three months and get a brand new engine and compensation same as the Swiss customers (my car was first registered there). I am very very happy!

I pick up my new car with new engine and I drive for 500-600km. It is an amazing car. Better than my 993RS in many ways. I take it on 10 quick laps of my local racetrack at 600km and no issues. I am with my friend who spends the whole day on the track with his 991 GT3 (I also had my 993 there and was running in new diff and gearbox so didnt get much time) and not a single issue. 9000rpm redline shifts hardly run in. Just used some oil.

So one car out of 785 replacement engines has gone bang but we have no idea why and we are hearing about it not from the owner but second hand through his friend? So what? I had a mate whos 4.0RS needed a new engine within 2 weeks of delivery! Plenty of 3.8RS engines have been replaced under warranty. Maybe the dealer who installed the engine forgot to connect the harness right and something ran foul?

To start making an internet rumour snowball out of this is just plain crazy and anyone who aids in doing this without facts is simply trying to damage the brand they say they love. Im sorry but anyone who owns a 997 Gt3 who suddenly pops up here telling tales of multiple 991 Gt3 failures doesnt wash with me either no matter how "sincere" they are. We have so many "trolls" on other boards already.

The GT3 engine may be fixed but it still lives with the tolerances of a man made machine (1-3% failure?). Nothing can be done to change that unless you are a devine being!

Just be careful you are talking with facts before you condemn Porsche again. the 991 GT3 has been nothing but perfect in the 5000km I have driven this in two countries and fast road and track.

Heres my prediction. Production will cease shortly after December for 991 GT3. 991 GT3RS will be released at Paris and production will start 01 March (this car is not being late for any sinister reason other than an appropriate launch venue and of course delays due to the 991 GT3 engine replacements). Therefore 991 GT3 production will remain at all time low of maybe 1300-1500 units total - similar or lower than 996.1 GT3. The car is fantastic there is no doubt - a big advance on the GT3 before if you are honest and not biased. Porsche will move to hybrid/turbo by end of 991 production and GT3 moniker will be abandoned so 991 GT3 in small volumes unloved after its launch due to the engine issue will in time become very valuable asset for those who still have one (not me probably). Just my thought and predictions. Porsche collectors and watch collectors  will tell you something low volume and unloved when it was made often ends up being highly collectable and very valuable in the future....

 

 

 

 

 

+100

997TT RS Tuning stage II(sold),2011 Cayenne Turbo(sold),waiting 991 GT3 RS

Porsche-Jeck:

reginos:

On a side note, I understand that the GT3 engine requires a careful running in procedure. Max 7.000 rpm initially. Could it be that some owners are anxious to fully exploit the whole rev range? 

In this case I am sure Porsche wouldn't swap engines under warranty - finally they can read out electronically all the relevant data.

Thats just BS!

You are talking out of your bottom hole. The break in proceedure is different in US manual vs Euro manual and infact when I did ED the Porsche mechanics tell me different break in again. When I picked up the car with its second engine I asked for teh break in. The head of the largest tech team Porsche has in my country told me my drivetrain and gearbox already done 3500km so just to take it easy for the first little while and then drive it. No strict policy etc.

They have always been able to determine the revs used on this engine. There is a cold warning light now that goes off at 45C (maybe 1-2 min of driving) and limited rpm to 7000. In my M5 you wait 5 minutes before access full rpm. So if they were that worried...

If you owned 991 GT3 I would listen more carefully to what you say but Im sorry I cannot. This board is one of the few where there is actually very little 991 GT3 owners. Go to Piston heads or Rennlist and see if anyone having issues you talk of. Maybe 100+ cars delivered who post on those boards and yet nothing,,,

nberry:

The engines in the US have been destroyed. I don't know about the engines in the ROW.

I can understand the concerns over theses engines failures. But unless Porsche is deceiving its customers I believe the recent reported failures are isolated instances. The car is spectacular in every way and it would be a shame for someone to pass on the car as a result of fear instead of credible information.

 

Was Porsche decieving its customers when they first started production of the GT3 and delivering them to their customers with a flaw that could cause them to catch on fire? No, becasue they did not know about the issue until after they started delivering them. Whats different now?

Nick, I understand you are enjoying your GT3 and do not want to hear about reliabiliyty un such a car that is already suspect from the problem it has had in its short life span and how that can affect its image, resale, etc  but nobody knows right now if these 2 GT3 so far are islolated incidents or not, so just as bad as claiming that the GT3 is still not reliable is claiming that fear that it isn't is unwarranted by potential customers. You have no credible information on the matter.

Right IMHO now they should be treated as isolated incidents until shown otherwise, but another quite differnt is potential customers putting their hard earned cash on it without letting time show us for sure.

DJC:

I've had my car back a month and use it as a daily driver and enjoying every moment  

Enjoy the car to the max  @ Nick: yes the car is spectacular and a stellar performer for sure. As for credibility: Porsche could have done a better job in the communication department during the initial "engine crisis". To me their credibility is fully restored once I have talked to a number of happy owners after they did a three digit number of laps in the Green Hell  Unfortunately the track season is not that long anymore over here....

public roads: Porsche 981S white/black/red, toll road  : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

Autocar magazine has just published a full UK road test of the Ferrari 458 Speciale and awarded it 5 stars...

...but overall they ranked the Porsche 991 GT3 ahead of the Ferrari 458 Speciale...

 1) Porsche 991 GT3 (***** 5 stars)

 2) Ferrari 458 Speciale (***** 5 stars)

(see Autocar magazine dated 20 August 2014 for the full review of Ferrari 458 Speciale and Autocar's top 5 ranking)

Autocar:

"A spine-tingler. Worthy of five stars even if we mildly prefer Porsche's 911 GT3..."

"A Porsche 911 GT3 is almost as incredible to drive, more habitable and half the price. Track-biased cars with roofs don't get better."

...how do you like them apples?

EVO ranked the cars with the 458 Speciale slightly ahead of the 991 GT3. personally I think they got that right.

However, behind the scenes they took the 991 GT3 to the same track they were setting laps on with the 458 Speciale (supported by full Ferrari tech team and 4 sets of tyres!). They put the GT3 out on the track early in the day and recorded a time after a few dozen laps only 0.2s shy of what it ended up taking most of the day for them to achieve on the 458 Sp. Track was Anglesea. The GT3 was a customer car with fresh new engine (well less than 1000 miles) and factory geo with no factory support. The 458 was factory supported press demo.

Im not saying its perfect but for half the price of a Ferrari its bloody amazing value!

Mark, i think you are being too hard and sensitive to the RT posters. None of them  are poseur's and are very pro Porsche. I think they have a right to post facts about the car and allow readers to make their own judgments. 

I for one would like to know what is going on with the new replacement engines. More importantly, PORSCHE WOULD WANT TO KNOW. So why should they not post what they know is true. None of them claimed the replacement engine failures were related to the original failures. They just stated what they know.

There is NO conspiracy to denigrate the car nor make our enjoy any less. That said, your spirited defense of the car is admirable. But it doesn't need to be defended by us. The high performance car magazines are doing a good job doing it for us.

Nick. Pointed noted but I have been through this before on two other boards in Europe and when the research was done the information was found to be untrue or inaccurate. 

The key word you use is FACTS and Im in full support of this word

If Carlos could share with us the dealer handling his friends engine issue by PM I would be happy to try and find out through my contacts in Europe what the final analysis is. Alternatively perhaps Carlos friends can post on here directly as then the information comes from the source

Ive been on most of the forums since the beginning with this car and started the GT3 Owners Action Group with Sunil earlier in the year. I love the but I will also be concerned if there are further issues that postpone by enjoyment of it so I too want to hear the TRUTH. However the interweb thingy isnt so good at this as we have learned it is very easy to create a "internet crisis" when posts are not backed by facts or knowledge. There are plenty of fold for various reasons (jealousy, hate of PDK, lovers of Mezger etc) that would quietly like to see this car fail. It wont and infact I suspect it will become even more infamous and cult status as a result of this but in the meantime people need to be clear with the information posted or wait for the facts to be posted. I read alot of this forum but I hear nothing from Phil, iGirl or others I know are reading this who own the car. Unless their engines have failed and they havent told us I assume they are busy thrashing their 991 GT3 around the tracks of Europe this summer!

Here is a good example. On a German board we hear of a 991 GT3 being flat bedded from a race track. The poster asks the guys at the track why it is broken and they say it overheated. All of a sudden I read on Pistonheads and Rennlist a car has overheated at the track and its not the first time it happens! But I and everyone else who have used the 991 GT3 on the track are amazed how cool it runs. How can it be? So I find the original poster and eventually through a picture of the car the owner who tells me it was a hole in the radiator as the protective screen mesh campaign WE22 has not be fitted yet and that the same thing happened also to another 991 GT3 owner at that track the weekend before. The car did overheat. The owner stopped to find out why and the reason was no water left in the radiator!

Its easy to scare people isnt it?

If the new 991 GT3 engines are faulty there are big problems on the horison for Porsche as a company, their shareholders and their customers as well as their fans. Will we get more compensation - maybe - maybe this car will cost us nothing in the end or we will get tired and give it back for our money - it does not matter to me which but right now I own the best production GT car I believe Porsche have made to date and I have also owned earlier RS (993) and GT3 (996) models.

Just saying....

I've got 3800 kms with multiple track days on the car since I got it back in late May. It haven't missed a beat. In fact it seems to be running stronger than ever with a bit of mileage on it. I've had to top up coolant and oil but that's it.
 

It's good that satisfied owners come out, because on the internet we only hear the bad stories, which BTW might not be 100% accurate.

"Form follows function"

So my Feb PTS was cancelled and the allocation returned to November 2014 because GT3 production is ending in December 2014 per PCNA Exclusive.  There doesn't seem to be much conversation here on RT about GT3 production ending, am I being led astray?  

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill

DaveC:

So my Feb PTS was cancelled and the allocation returned to November 2014 because GT3 production is ending in December 2014 per PCNA Exclusive.  There doesn't seem to be much conversation here on RT about GT3 production ending, am I being led astray?  

The last I heard is the GT3 production is suppose to end in Feb. 2015 and the RS to begin thereafter. Either way it will be a very limited production car and probably the last of the NA GT cars for Porsche.

The gt3 is a masterpiece.  2 broke.  Perhaps Porsche over reacted, which actually made the issue much worse than necessary.  E.g., i switched to speciale and i think others did too.  In a year hardly a ripple will remain.....

macca, good to meet you in Auckland, hope to see you our March or May trips.  Cheers watt

Watt. Good to meet your and your lovely wife too! Definately next time. Will have to be May. Your black 997.1 GT3 RS is joining us in a few weeks down on Taupo track - bought buy a guy in Hawkes Bay. How did you find it overall on our roads?

Mark!  

I loved it , both on the 1 and the two lane  - light crisp and tossable.   NZ roads are perfect for Porsches!!!!!  Dont tell the new owner we did over 700 km on metal  not that that's a problem in this family.  Having done 4 gt3s and 3 gt2s stateside, we are quite used to the shh shh shh of the valence scraping and angling across speed bumps. It was pretty funny and took some planning getting the luggage through the roll bar.....  First stick I've driven in 5 years, id forgotten how superb those Porsche gearboxes are!

We will look you up on the May trip, we will be in Golden Bay with the Speciale and the Macan turbo, unless it gets replaced by a gt3...

cheers

watt

Yeah, you learn to live with all of that in a GT3 in NZ. Very much looking forward to seeing your Speciale (my dream car!). I have been lucky enough to see one in the flesh back in December in Monaco (had a good sticky beak at it and looks devine). Cant see it getting traded for a GT3 mate! You are a lucky man indeed!

Haha, was referring to trading the Macan turbo for a gt3.....!  Ive gotta have those lug Speciale wheels to run the South Island, and think how low profile it will be without that gt3 ricer wing:)  ( but the gt3 could be the grocery runner to Takaka :)Cheers!

macca993:

If Carlos could share with us the dealer handling his friends engine issue by PM I would be happy to try and find out through my contacts in Europe what the final analysis is. Alternatively perhaps Carlos friends can post on here directly as then the information comes from the source.

Hi Mark, you have PM, I can say more things about this in private that I cannot in public and also placing you in contact directly with the source 

--

Lightweight bucket seats now show up on US configurator for the GT3.  Any one know if they are actually available in US or just buggy software?  Be great if they are finally available here.  Have a call into dealer, but people here tend to know first / more than sales folks.

They are the same as the 918 by the looks of it. I have not heard anything about them being available anywhere but they look like the real thing.

2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab

Yeah thought they looked like 918's as well.  Makes sense from a US DOT standpoint.    I hope this means the speculation on the early end to GT3 production isn't true.   Only hope for my dealer to get another allocation.

watt:

Haha, was referring to trading the Macan turbo for a gt3.....!  Ive gotta have those lug Speciale wheels to run the South Island, and think how low profile it will be without that gt3 ricer wing:)  ( but the gt3 could be the grocery runner to Takaka :)Cheers!

Dude. The Speciale is going to stick out like Dogs Bollix in the South Island. They all drive Toyota Hilux down there LOL!

Your long suffering missus should join a club with mine :-)

Seriously tho with the CL wheels havent been a problem yet in the 5000km Ive done. That said I have the special wrench and jack in the car now just in case!

I have a  December GT3 build. I just found out that I can order my car with bucket seats. I'm looking for advice from people who have these seats in their GT3's. I'm 6' tall, 210lbs. This wil be my DD. I really like the way the bucket seats look. Am I gonna be able to live with them on a daily basis? I know the back is not adjustable. Is the height adjustable? I had the 18 way adjustable seats in my Panamera GTS and loved them. My SA thinks I should stick to the 18 way seats. 

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. 

Follow the advice of your SA. Bucket seats are uncomfortable. That said, if you bought the car to primarily track they do provide more stability. However, I don't believe the height is adjustable.