Crown

macca993:

Eduardo. My money is on wrap/respray. That car was delivered at least 6 months ago that I recall and Ive spent time up there - labour is cheap and Asian market doesnt like to wait. cars are very $$$ due to tax. Easier to land a white one and have it repainted to blue. Takes a week or two and not so much money (less than PTS charge), PTS has never been popular in Sing/HK/Indo as a result (infact since 964 generation I have not personally seen one and I was up there alot on the 90s where I bought my 993RS and 964RS from)....

I agree with you.  But since the boys at Rennlist seem to believe it's real, I wanted to be as diplomatic as I could on this International forum...so that I don't get the Jim Foley treatment from someone in Indonesia.  

Saludos, Eduardo

Fair call! 

Guys,

I'm now starting to get very worried.... I'm just about to sign for a 3000 km GT3 fully loaded, with obviously factory motor change and 3 years warranty.

BUT if now people are starting to report engine failures on new motors , this is probably not a good idea to buy one .....

RC, Kreso, do you have any confirmation about those failures or is this only a "special cause" like I used to say when I was 6 Sigma Master Black belt ......

With all what i hear I might probably delay my buying .........

Thanks for your information and your passion to deliver TRUE et HONNEST feedbacks guys !!!!!

997 Carrera S Triple Black Sold now ... Good car 997 GT3 triple black wow what a car !!!

Carlos from Spain:

One of the two 991GT3 owners I know of here, got his car back with the new engine and right when he grabbed the car this Monday to do a 1wk road trip along the Spanish-french coast along with other high end cars, the car's engine failed, lost the whole vacation,  and his car is back in the shop awaiting yet another engine... 

What has happened with Porsche since 1997 regarding engines reliability is unbelieveble. The first water cooled engines were a time bomb ready to explode at any time, till today there´s  9M6 engines exploding regulary, just check rennlist and there´s thousands of storys about it. This problem was only solved on 2008 with the new DFI engines that were more reliable. Now this problem with the GT3 is scary, I believe this wont be an isolated case, I would never put my hands on a 991 GT3 untill this queston is well cleared. 

--

J.Seven

997.2 Cab 2S

Maserati Quattroporte Sport GTS

BMW X6 4.0D

BMW X5 4.4i V8

Thank you very much for your reply and the picture. In real it will be brilliant. Mine will be a true Riviera Blue and hope there will be no engine failure. I will post a picture when the car will be delivered. Probably in Jan or Feb.  By the way I read that the production will stop in February. 

J.Seven:

Carlos from Spain:

One of the two 991GT3 owners I know of here, got his car back with the new engine and right when he grabbed the car this Monday to do a 1wk road trip along the Spanish-french coast along with other high end cars, the car's engine failed, lost the whole vacation,  and his car is back in the shop awaiting yet another engine... 

What has happened with Porsche since 1997 regarding engines reliability is unbelieveble. The first water cooled engines were a time bomb ready to explode at any time, till today there´s  9M6 engines exploding regulary, just check rennlist and there´s thousands of storys about it. This problem was only solved on 2008 with the new DFI engines that were more reliable. Now this problem with the GT3 is scary, I believe this wont be an isolated case, I would never put my hands on a 991 GT3 untill this queston is well cleared. 

The story might not be accurate. We need information before concluding.

M96: I've  had a MY M96 engined car for 9 years and 100.000km without any problems. I see the car nowadays, 5 years after, also in top health. Also my M96 987 is without problems after 7+ years and my 9A1 911 is strong after 5+ years.

You know these things are like hearing about how many have died of say cancer and thinking that we will all inevitably be affected by the disease; because no one talks about the vast majority who stay alive and healthy.

"Form follows function"

With the 996 Porsche went into big production numbers (170,000 units made from 1998 to 2005) and the M96 issues are in  the Porsche books (i.e. Paul Frere , Porsche 911) and other literatures recognized facts . What is unclear and will likely remain unclear are the number of engines that have been affected . For what is worth I drove 80,000 km with my 996 and I only changed a light bulb and serviced it as per Porsche maintenance schedule. In the old times there was no internet and the information was limited and circulating slowly and this gives us the perception of the older 911s as bullet proof cars . They , compared to the competition, were probably bullet proof cars and much better built  but they had issues too. 

thierry:

Guys,

I'm now starting to get very worried.... I'm just about to sign for a 3000 km GT3 fully loaded, with obviously factory motor change and 3 years warranty.

BUT if now people are starting to report engine failures on new motors , this is probably not a good idea to buy one .....

RC, Kreso, do you have any confirmation about those failures or is this only a "special cause" like I used to say when I was 6 Sigma Master Black belt ......

With all what i hear I might probably delay my buying .........

 

Thanks for your information and your passion to deliver TRUE et HONNEST feedbacks guys !!!!!

I email my P source and he told me that case that Carlos mentioned is "isolated thing". But, do not forget that he is P employee after all.

991 GT3 is great sportscar for spirited driving when it is working properly.

Would I buy one used or order new one? Do you want my honest answer?

You may not like it (P also)...

I think that certain engine applications/production periods have been affected. For example there are three 40 year 996s powerkit cars in our market and two received new engines. Also out of our small Porsche population two 996 Carrera 4S had IMS failures.

However, none of the plentiful Boxsters/Cayman/997.1 have suffered any failures. Just some RMS leakages, which are not lethal of course.

A small proportion of engines have suffered. It is not acceptable nevertheless, but because these get all the publicity the issues have been greatly generalized.

"Form follows function"

KresoF1:

Would I buy one used or order new one? Do you want my honest answer?

You may not like it (P also)...

All covered by warranty, both initial and extended.

Let us enjoy a great GT3 model, if this is what some of us fancy, and let Porsche replace the engine, if and when it happens. Greater probability of worse things happening in life!

--

"Form follows function"

Very happy for you. Must be such a good feeling to see the car you'll soon own and drive. Can you tell us why you choose your car in white. Seems to be the most preferred choice. I went for Riviera Blue and will get it in Jan or Feb. 2015. Enjoy

We should not think to much about the buzz made around all these potential bugs and reliability issues. 

Fantastic ! It's nice to read you'll drive it almost daily.

reginos:

J.Seven:

Carlos from Spain:

One of the two 991GT3 owners I know of here, got his car back with the new engine and right when he grabbed the car this Monday to do a 1wk road trip along the Spanish-french coast along with other high end cars, the car's engine failed, lost the whole vacation,  and his car is back in the shop awaiting yet another engine... 

What has happened with Porsche since 1997 regarding engines reliability is unbelieveble. The first water cooled engines were a time bomb ready to explode at any time, till today there´s  9M6 engines exploding regulary, just check rennlist and there´s thousands of storys about it. This problem was only solved on 2008 with the new DFI engines that were more reliable. Now this problem with the GT3 is scary, I believe this wont be an isolated case, I would never put my hands on a 991 GT3 untill this queston is well cleared. 

The story might not be accurate. We need information before concluding.

The story IS accurate. The car broke down leaving home on the start of the roadtrip, engine dead and  was told a problem with a piston. That's the story, period.

What we don't know is the exact cause of the engine failure, and if its just an isolated incident or not, if its related to the previous engine problem or not.

For now we need to treat it as an isolated incident simply because we have no other reports of similar incidents. That said, GT3 have been in the hands of their owners for a short time and there are very few units out there due to the stop sale during its production time, so if its not an isolated thing, it may take a while to become apparent.

Personally I think its an isolated case, I find it hard to believe that they would screw up again on the same model after all that has happened and all the publicity with so much hanging on the line, but I'm not going to bet my money on it either. 

And just because warranty covers it doesn't make it OK. He has not been able to enjoy the car since he paid for it, he did not get a similar substitute car, the compensation was ridiculous, it brakes down again and he lost all the reservations,etc of the roadtrip vacation, and again he gets a Macan and a week later as the substitute car. The car's resale value has gone down the drain, and he hasn't even been able to enjoy it either. Don't brush it off like its nothing just because warranty covers the repairs.

Carlos, fully agree with you! 

And I know that you are probably bigger P fan then me. 

Some members here seems to be suh a brand devotees that they can not accept the fact that Porsche reputation has gone half way down the toilet after 991 GT3 engine fiasco. 

@reginos-do you know how much down are 991 GT3 orders after engine fiasco? Numbers are not good at all, specially in EU. Do you know why P did not introduced 991 GT3 RS yet, even if its printed brochure already exists (!!)? 

Situation is pretty complicated and I can say only this-as P fan I am hoping for the best in 991 GT3 end success scenario.

thierry:

Guys,

I'm now starting to get very worried.... I'm just about to sign for a 3000 km GT3 fully loaded, with obviously factory motor change and 3 years warranty.

BUT if now people are starting to report engine failures on new motors , this is probably not a good idea to buy one .....

RC, Kreso, do you have any confirmation about those failures or is this only a "special cause" like I used to say when I was 6 Sigma Master Black belt ......

With all what i hear I might probably delay my buying .........

 

Thanks for your information and your passion to deliver TRUE et HONNEST feedbacks guys !!!!!

Personally I would not be concerned. You are getting a new car with an original engine. The car is fantastic especially for the money.

However, you appear to be a worry wart and for your peace of mind and sanity I suggest canceling your order. You will continue to be worried no matter what. One cannot enjoy a car in that state of mind. Your dealer will not have any problem finding a replacement buyer.

Carlos's comments about resale value are not correct at least in the US. Used ones at selling at MSRP and new ones over MSRP. There will only be a limited number built. It is estimated under a 1000 for the US. Resale value is not an issue.

KresoF1:

 Do you know why P did not introduced 991 GT3 RS yet, even if its printed brochure already exists (!!)? 

I heard it was to push GT3 sales first . 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Gnil:

KresoF1:

 Do you know why P did not introduced 991 GT3 RS yet, even if its printed brochure already exists (!!)? 

I heard it was to push GT3 sales first . 

Could be to make sure the replacement engine is up to Porsche standards.

nberry:

Gnil:

KresoF1:

 Do you know why P did not introduced 991 GT3 RS yet, even if its printed brochure already exists (!!)? 

I heard it was to push GT3 sales first . 

Could be to make sure the replacement engine is up to Porsche standards.

Both

Gen II Cayman S

Given that I'm not looking to buy a 991 GT3 but I obviously love 911s, my view FWIW is ... I wouldn't risk my money on a car that:

(i) has had such a major issue with its engine, and
(ii) may not have bulletproof engine reliability even after the engine repair is carried out, or
(iii) has uncertain engine reliability regarding new cars manufactured after the correction was implemented in the factory.

Some will obviously disagree with me, which is fine. I expect those who will disagree may be those who either already own a 991 GT3 and have had a good experience or those who have one on order and are naturally feeling impatient to own one and who are (secretly) hoping in their hearts that they don't experience an ownership nightmare. 

Personally, I consider the 991 GT3 to be a superb car on paper which may or may not prove to be a great car to own, depending upon how lucky you are. But IMO, a great ownership experience should not depend on luck, especially not when you're spending upwards of £100k. And compensation IMO is never as good as having an immaculate experience from day 1.

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

Excellent! Fully subscribe your point of view.

--

1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2012 Cayenne Diesel - 2013 Mini Cooper S - 1995 BMW318ti

My dealer just called and told me my order for GT3 will likely arrive end of Nov and had me top up my deposit.

Then I just went on this board and found out about new engine issues.

could it be that some people have pulled out of their orders and that why I'm getting my car earlier?

I'm a bit scared now....

easy_rider911:

Given that I'm not looking to buy a 991 GT3 but I obviously love 911s, my view FWIW is ... I wouldn't risk my money on a car that:

(i) has had such a major issue with its engine, and
(ii) may not have bulletproof engine reliability even after the engine repair is carried out, or
(iii) has uncertain engine reliability regarding new cars manufactured after the correction was implemented in the factory.

Some will obviously disagree with me, which is fine. I expect those who will disagree may be those who either already own a 991 GT3 and have had a good experience or those who have one on order and are naturally feeling impatient to own one and who are (secretly) hoping in their hearts that they don't experience an ownership nightmare. 

Personally, I consider the 991 GT3 to be a superb car on paper which may or may not prove to be a great car to own, depending upon how lucky you are. But IMO, a great ownership experience should not depend on luck, especially not when you're spending upwards of £100k. And compensation IMO is never as good as having an immaculate experience from day 1.

+1

2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

Do yo know what is happening to the 785 engines that were taken back by the factory?

Flying JP

991 GT3 Riviera Blue on order
Morgan Aero 8 MKIV 2009
Land Rover Discovery LR4 V8 5.0 2013
Jaguar XJ Super V8 Portfolio "Concept Eight" 2005
BMW 528i 6 cylinder 2011

FlyingJP:

Do yo know what is happening to the 785 engines that were taken back by the factory?

Did they really replace the entire engine? I thought they only replaced the faulty part.

2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE

2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

Carlos from Spain:

One of the two 991GT3 owners I know of here, got his car back with the new engine and right when he grabbed the car this Monday to do a 1wk road trip along the Spanish-french coast along with other high end cars, the car's engine failed, lost the whole vacation,  and his car is back in the shop awaiting yet another engine... 

I know of at least one more 991 GT3 running with the third engine already 

@ Easy: fully agree with your assessment 

Having said that, I really wish Nick and all other 991 GT3 owners that they may enjoy a problem free ownership of their beautiful  cars 

public roads: Porsche 981S white/black/red, toll road  : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

Porsche-Jeck:

Carlos from Spain:

One of the two 991GT3 owners I know of here, got his car back with the new engine and right when he grabbed the car this Monday to do a 1wk road trip along the Spanish-french coast along with other high end cars, the car's engine failed, lost the whole vacation,  and his car is back in the shop awaiting yet another engine... 

I know of at least one more 991 GT3 running with the third engine already 

Could you please be more specific for the sake of accuracy of information?

The con rod problem hasn't been fully solved by Porsche?

A brand new problem has cropped up as per Carlos' post?

Something else?

I understand that some people are scared off, already 

"Form follows function"

easy_rider911:

Given that I'm not looking to buy a 991 GT3 but I obviously love 911s, my view FWIW is ... I wouldn't risk my money on a car that:

(i) has had such a major issue with its engine, and
(ii) may not have bulletproof engine reliability even after the engine repair is carried out, or
(iii) has uncertain engine reliability regarding new cars manufactured after the correction was implemented in the factory.

Some will obviously disagree with me, which is fine. I expect those who will disagree may be those who either already own a 991 GT3 and have had a good experience or those who have one on order and are naturally feeling impatient to own one and who are (secretly) hoping in their hearts that they don't experience an ownership nightmare. 

Personally, I consider the 991 GT3 to be a superb car on paper which may or may not prove to be a great car to own, depending upon how lucky you are. But IMO, a great ownership experience should not depend on luck, especially not when you're spending upwards of £100k. And compensation IMO is never as good as having an immaculate experience from day 1.

My exact opinion as well, and the GT3 has always been my favorite 911 of the line up.

reginos:

Could you please be more specific for the sake of accuracy of information?

 

Reginos, at this point it would be pure speculation to tell whether it's the "old" issue, a new one, a systematic issue or just "random" (bad luck with a "Monday" car..). Hence the two incidents may be not significant (from a statistical point of view) but it is more than understandable that people get scared due to the initial fiasko with the GT3 engines. And indeed I know quite a number of Porschephiles (track buddies) who initially have been looking forward to place an order but then backed off due to lack of "courage" (that would include myself ) It may be worthwhile to observe the market for 997 GTx cars....

public roads: Porsche 981S white/black/red, toll road  : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

Porsche-Jeck:

I know of at least one more 991 GT3 running with the third engine already 

 how many GT3 are out on the streets by now? 500?

The engines in the US have been destroyed. I don't know about the engines in the ROW.

I can understand the concerns over theses engines failures. But unless Porsche is deceiving its customers I believe the recent reported failures are isolated instances. The car is spectacular in every way and it would be a shame for someone to pass on the car as a result of fear instead of credible information.