Crown

Lars997:

We didnt discuss whats the motor at all - I guess we will see a Audi 3.0 TFSI derivate?

Nope. As far as I understood, Porsche will use their own development, based on their own V6.

Still...I don't think I would buy a V6 Turbo...I don't know...in this price segment, I want something different. Kind of a psychology thing. Maybe younger people think different but I would have never bought a Cayenne with a V6 Turbo, even with 700 hp. Never. What makes the GTS so special is the V8 engine. With a V6 Turbo, they can keep it.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

Lars997:

We didnt discuss whats the motor at all - I guess we will see a Audi 3.0 TFSI derivate?

Nope. As far as I understood, Porsche will use their own development, based on their own V6.

Still...I don't think I would buy a V6 Turbo...I don't know...in this price segment, I want something different. Kind of a psychology thing. Maybe younger people think different but I would have never bought a Cayenne with a V6 Turbo, even with 700 hp. Never. What makes the GTS so special is the V8 engine. With a V6 Turbo, they can keep it.

That's kind of surprising.... why inventing the wheel again 

And yes..... I understand you - why would you put 150k++ on the table for an V6 Turbo?

I've been reading through this thread trying to understand the logic. 

The iconic 911 turbo uses a 6 cylinder turbo but that wouldn't be good enough for the Porsche sedan?  Hmmm...

RC:

Lars997:

We didnt discuss whats the motor at all - I guess we will see a Audi 3.0 TFSI derivate?

Nope. As far as I understood, Porsche will use their own development, based on their own V6.

Still...I don't think I would buy a V6 Turbo...I don't know...in this price segment, I want something different. Kind of a psychology thing. Maybe younger people think different but I would have never bought a Cayenne with a V6 Turbo, even with 700 hp. Never. What makes the GTS so special is the V8 engine. With a V6 Turbo, they can keep it.

Even the GT2RS has a 6-cylinder turbo - still, some people prefer it over 8 or 12 cylinders 

SoCalHoosier:

I've been reading through this thread trying to understand the logic. 

The iconic 911 turbo uses a 6 cylinder turbo but that wouldn't be good enough for the Porsche sedan?  Hmmm...

Comparing Apples with Oranges? Yes, I would accept a V6 Turbo in a sports car but not in a sports sedan of the size of the Panamera or the Cayenne. I would never buy a SUV without a V8 or V12 engine, same goes to sedans. Some sort of psychological principle.

I love the V8 sound a lot and I think it is the perfect sound for a larger sedan or SUV but I guess it is a mentality thing.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

BlackSparrow:

In Montreal the cost of gas is about $1.50-$1.60/L for premium.  On a normal week, I do a full tank fill-up and it costs me ~$150, that is $675/month.  I do not drive that much, but all of it is city driving.  I have a Cayenne and I want to drive that, why would I get anything else to go places? :)   Here is how the L/100km is calculated:  I go about 350km/week in the city,  the car consumes in the range of 25L/100KM - cold weather + winter tires + sport driving + city driving :)

 

* Having said that I have to admit that I love burning gas and hear it through a loud exhaust and feel the ramble of the engine just like everyone here, but as I said earlier - gotta change in the changing world.

wow - 25 l/100 - i was using 13l /100 in my math as an annualized average - i know winter pops 20% plus, but 25l/ 100 is crazy.

in winter i am getting 17 to 18 l/100. i have a manual & tend to hold the rev's much higher than an auto would so i thought that would make up a bit for the fact you have a TT.

they should put a kick down cylinder count when doddling in thick traffic - hey r u a Prestige or Lauzon client? my first C4S came from Lauzon.

--

2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold / 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual /2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold

Lars997:

 

That's kind of surprising.... why inventing the wheel again 

And yes..... I understand you - why would you put 150k++ on the table for an V6 Turbo?

Porsche already has their own V6 (derived from the V8), the one in the Panamera...

This is not the Cayenne V6 from Volkswagen.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

Lars997:

 

That's kind of surprising.... why inventing the wheel again 

And yes..... I understand you - why would you put 150k++ on the table for an V6 Turbo?

Porsche already has their own V6 (derived from the V8), the one in the Panamera...

This is not the Cayenne V6 from Volkswagen.

Thanks for clarification - I thought the Cayenne and Panamera shares the same engine 

RC:

SoCalHoosier:

I've been reading through this thread trying to understand the logic. 

The iconic 911 turbo uses a 6 cylinder turbo but that wouldn't be good enough for the Porsche sedan?  Hmmm...

Comparing Apples with Oranges? Yes, I would accept a V6 Turbo in a sports car but not in a sports sedan of the size of the Panamera or the Cayenne. I would never buy a SUV without a V8 or V12 engine, same goes to sedans. Some sort of psychological principle.

I love the V8 sound a lot and I think it is the perfect sound for a larger sedan or SUV but I guess it is a mentality thing.

Couldn't express it better 

Side question but is the Cayenne diesel engine now the same better one than the Panamera?

SciFrog:

Side question but is the Cayenne diesel engine now the same better one than the Panamera?

The Cayenne 6 cyl. engine is from Volkswagen, the V6 for the Panamera from Porsche.

Which one is better? Well...I actually would put my money on the Porsche V6, especially since it also delivers more power.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

 

The Cayenne 6 cyl. engine is from Volkswagen, the V6 for the Panamera from Porsche.

Which one is better? Well...I actually would put my money on the Porsche V6, especially since it also delivers more power.

...used to be the case for pre-2011 Cayenne V6. Starting 2011 Cayenne V6 engine is not VW, but Porsche V6 (the same V6 engine, used in 6cyl Panamera).

Actually, it's a Cayenne S/Panamera S V8 "minus two cylinders". That's how they implemented this Porsche V6 engine...just by modifying V8 engine by cutting 2 cylinders.

...regarding the orig post topic,..

This tendency to substitute V8 with the turboV6 is a new efficiency "fashion style" in many German car manufacturers. The new BMW M3 will have V6turbo instead of V8. All new 3series BMW cars are coming with the v4turbos instead of V6s, as it used to be.

German car manufacturers started to "cheat the customer" into an idea of getting even more fuel efficient car w turbo engine and "2cyl less", than regular nonturbo engine, advertising same or even little increased hp  with the next generation turbo engine. Advertising a better gas efficiency for the same or higher priced "less" car. They started to "downgrade" engines: V8 into V6turbo,  V6 into V4turbo. Very soon this path will lead us into well developed Japanese V4turbo cars and 2cyl motorbikes territory.

While it may be suitable for compact low weight little cars/little low weight sport cars, it's a path into disaster for big heavy sedans and SUVs (Panamera V8, Cayenne V8).

...it's the beginning of the END of a Porsche sedan/suv...a full VW Audi economic corporate mentality takeover and absorption.

If they put this V6turbo into next Panamera S/Panamera GTS (which they probably will), they WILL definitely put this into CayenneS/CayenneGTS too.

I can't imagine a disaster next CayenneV6turbo instead of CayenneV8... ...even worse, than PanameraV6turbo instead of PanameraV8 substitution...

Imagine MacanV6, PanameraV6turbo, CayenneV6turbo, PanameraGTSV6turbo, CayenneGTSV6turbo...They will share the same base V6 engine block vs "preserved" current TURBO Panamera/Cayenne models with the V8 engine.

But they will keep prices advancing higher...

If you want to get into SUCH future sooner, start buying Japanese 4cylturbo compacts (SubaruWRXs, MitsuEVOs and etc) INSTEAD of PORSCHE Panamera/Cayenne...

This is a path into disaster, into NOWHERE - into THE END...

Sorry, I forgot that Porsche switched to their own V6 in the Cayenne (958) after only one year of production. You are right.

I agree...switching to the V6 Turbo could be a problem, not necessarily in Europe but in markets like the US or the Middle East where a V8 is kind of a standard in luxury vehicles.

Time will tell if Porsche made a mistake but I will never buy a Cayenne or a Panamera without a V8. I can get a V8 from Mercedes, BMW or even Audi.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I am recollecting that several years ago RC advanced a rumor that if true would be devastating in the minds of many of us concerned with the future of everything porsche. Months later RC was able to confirm that the g1 mezger engine in the gen 1 997tt would soon be relegated to the dust bin of Porsche history. Since then there has been a steady stream of " advancements " that would make Porsches cheaper to build but better than ever in terms of performance and fuel efficiency , thank god for better mpg. I may be a minority of one, but  when enjoying my tt that isn't at the forefront of importance. Time moves forward with the limited this or that editions . Followed ultimately by the vw acquisition . V6 panamera s why not. Porsche is now cultivating new customers that will have redefined , lower, expectations of all things porsche. The adage that applies to many brands , say when did they quit making .... Will apply to porsche as well. for some the high watermark will always be the 356. Everyone can set their own. .... I guess for my self it's the 997 gt2rs , preferably Mexico blue or the cgt that's not yet out of the realm of possibility....I find these on going developments to be sadly predictable.

RC:

Sorry, I forgot that Porsche switched to their own V6 in the Cayenne (958) after only one year of production. You are right.

I agree...switching to the V6 Turbo could be a problem, not necessarily in Europe but in markets like the US or the Middle East where a V8 is kind of a standard in luxury vehicles.

Time will tell if Porsche made a mistake but I will never buy a Cayenne or a Panamera without a V8. I can get a V8 from Mercedes, BMW or even Audi.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I asked and you replied about the diesel engine, he is talking about the gasoline one...

Maybe BMW and Mercedes wil also switch to V6turbo,it seems to be the trend

Audi did it first with S5,Jaguar also replaced na v8,new M3 will be t6...

I actually prefer 6cyl engine to a V8,but hate turbos with a passion

Also I think heavy cars like Panameras and Cayennes benefit more from torque than power

And having 6 cylinders does not make it a 'lesser' car

V6 turbo will have more torque than N/A V8...

The problem is not torque, the problem is the engine itself. You can't really make a V6 engine which feels and sounds like a V8, at least I don't know any manufacturer yet who did this. Of course the turbo charged V6 will have more torque than the N/A V8 but thats not the point. The V8 feels, sounds and behaves differently and this is what I like about it. In my opinion, heavy cars benefit from a V8 and a V12 but of course I may be biased. Adding a turbo charger wouldn't hurt but I'm not a friend of 6-cyl. engines, the only exception is the 911. I can't even remember when I bought a car for myself without a V8, only exception is the 911. My last 6-cyl. non-911 car was a BMW M3 (E36). This was 20 years ago. All the other non-V8 cars I got were my wife's or my mother's.

I love V8 engines and I was even recently tempted to get a Ford GT500 Shelby (650 horses) as a fun car, the lease offer was exceptional (a friend wanted to get out of his contract because he decided to get the new A45 AMG instead) but my wife said I am crazy and she was right, so I declined.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I am sure we will see across the board a downsizing of engines in terms of displacement and cylinders (A45 AMG anybody?) - BUT with better numbers than ever. I would agree that it would be sad - but EU regulations and penalties on fleet CO2-consumption dictates that we will see less ccm and turbo only....- just to please those stupid regulators. I was just shocked to read that in F1 2014 the engine will produce 750 in quali and 550 (!) in race - but with a 34 second KERS window (another 160 hp or so) instead of 6 seconds - and sadly this will probably come more into day-to-day cars too....as the "new" sportiness....- kissing the sound of a good old naturally aspirated engine good bye

I have heard that the Panamera S is going to 420 HP and a V-6 Turbo. The Turbo model bumped to 520 HP. V-6 the same.

2006 997 C2S Cab, Triple Black,  2006 Cayenne Titanium Iceland Silver Metalic New York

I once read somewhere that Porsche allows a tolerance of 8 %. Meaning a claimed 400HP could produce from 400-432HP. If this is (still) true a 5% increase in HP is kind of silly? 

2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2

993Targa:

I once read somewhere that Porsche allows a tolerance of 8 %. Meaning a claimed 400HP could produce from 400-432HP. If this is (still) true a 5% increase in HP is kind of silly? 

It could also be 380 hp or less.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I thought the claimed HP is the minimum? In any case these 5% increases don't make sense to me..

2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2

993Targa:

I thought the claimed HP is the minimum? In any case these 5% increases don't make sense to me..

Never. There is always the tolerance, it goes both ways (lower/higher) and Porsche does not test single engines anymore (like they did in the past), they just pick one from a couple of dozens from time to time to make sure quality is OK.

My Cayenne GTS is the best example: I encountered til now two other Cayenne GTS and I've always been faster, especially in the 150 to 240 kph speed range. Always two or three car lengths ahead and I had an almost full fuel tank and the family onboard. I already noticed that my GTS performs pretty well and make no mistake, I didn't order the car (so Porsche could provide a more powerful engine...press and all ), I bought it from dealer's stock. So there seems to be a power fluctuation but I guess this is nothing new. If I had to guess, I'd say that my GTS has at least 30-40 horses more than it should, at the upper range of the tolerance.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4