Crown

I really don't understand this whole Ring-time-mania.

Who of us can really achieve such times? To whom of us are these really important? Who has a benefit in his everyday driving?

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Gilles:

hello, I am still waiting for the TARGA 991... any ideas when it is due to be released ?

I am currently selling my 997 targa macadamia PDK...

In between, I 'll be driving for fun, a German 993 2S, mirage/paladio Metallic (very rare color)

OT: HI Gilles can you post a photo of your Mirage/Palladio Metallic 993 in the 993 section ?  ( I just bought a 993 4S in Riviera Blau will post photos soon)

--

911 Club Coupe, 72' 911 Targa 2.4 S, 12' Audi S4 Avant

Rossi, its an indication of a car's handling, stability and power output! None of us will achieve the time, thats not the point... It gives us an indication of the refinement and capability of vehicles. Far better measure than 0-100kmh times... Any hunk of rubbish can be made to do 0-100 in 3.5sec with enough forced induction behind it after modification. Doesn't mean it will round a corner, right?

 By your thinking, why do we need sportscars? A Toyota Prius will get us from point A to B won't it? And around the NBR in under 10 min

Rossi:

I really don't understand this whole Ring-time-mania.

Who of us can really achieve such times? To whom of us are these really important? Who has a benefit in his everyday driving?

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Totally agree with you. Ring time is indication what car can do in VERY capable hands.

Also, I do not understand why are some people here worried about PDK in GT3? Thank God for PDK in GT3 IMHO!

Days of manual gearbox in sportscar are over. Period. Some need to accept that... This is also a good new for 997/997.2 GT3 used market since price will remain more or less stable.

What I do not like to repeat is the fact that 991 become pretty expensive in comparison to 997.2 models. I was thinking to get 991C4S with X51 and end price of my configuration was close to 160K € in Germany! That is too much IMO. New GT3 will probably cost around 130K € as base price and when you add some goodies like Navi etc, you could be in 150K area. If that is the case I could see myself buying new GT3 since it will be chaper then fully equiped 991C4S with X51. BUT, I am affraid that base price of new GT3 will be close to 145K €...

Gotta pay to play, hey?!!! Hopefully the PDK will be worth the 15-20% premium they are going to sucker customers for!

KresoF1:

Rossi:

I really don't understand this whole Ring-time-mania.

Who of us can really achieve such times? To whom of us are these really important? Who has a benefit in his everyday driving?

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Totally agree with you. Ring time is indication what car can do in VERY capable hands.

Also, I do not understand why are some people here worried about PDK in GT3? Thank God for PDK in GT3 IMHO!

Days of manual gearbox in sportscar are over. Period. Some need to accept that... This is also a good new for 997/997.2 GT3 used market since price will remain more or less stable.

What I do not like to repeat is the fact that 991 become pretty expensive in comparison to 997.2 models. I was thinking to get 991C4S with X51 and end price of my configuration was close to 160K € in Germany! That is too much IMO. New GT3 will probably cost around 130K € as base price and when you add some goodies like Navi etc, you could be in 150K area. If that is the case I could see myself buying new GT3 since it will be chaper then fully equiped 991C4S with X51. BUT, I am affraid that base price of new GT3 will be close to 145K €...

hi Kreso,

While I agree with you that:

a) anything below 7:30 would be sensational - simply because with 450-480hp  cannot achieve 7:20 or anything below

b) that its probably good news for 997.2 GT3 owners..last manual etc.

c) 991 GT3 is too expensive ..but also a 991 4S is be too much

d) manual gearbox will in the long run probably disappear

I dont agree with your - sorry for my words - "arrogance" when you write certain things here.. "your P source..period"..These are elements for me to refrain for being here at rennteam, who are yout to decide about all this..? May I remind you that for the last years Porsche only offered manual gearbox for GT3..the GT3 was a 100% manual car..if people didnt like it they would have bought something else. Besides, I also know a few people at Porsche..its just like any other employer, many are frustrated, some are happy, - I dont know any P employee telling me "great, there will be no manual on 991 GT3; or great, since VW took over - everything is better". Even they realise that probably the good old days of Porsche sportscars are over. That the 911 is not selling well in Germany is no secret..and to get them sold Porsche is giving massive discounts. 5-8% on new ones, which are then 1 year later another 25K€ worth less.

Lets see how in the long term view the whole story will develop..but decisions will not be taken by you or me, or your P-source..the market will dictatete the future. Porsches main problem in the future will be to comply with the relevant legislations..and they are currently already "behind". I know that because of this - which is nit their mistake - we get such "half way - luxury sportcars"

I hope I didnt offend you..but I think your wording/attitutude here is a bit off the line..in other forums I dont see that..

Lets wait for the news on the 991 GT3..would be happy if your ordered one,.,and could us know how it drives

My attitude? Huh...

So, fact that one of my first cousins works for P is a problem and that he shares some inside info is a problem?

I will ask this: Is this a problem for OTHER members as well or only for GTlover? If other members here feel the same as GTlover I will not post info that my first cousin gives me any more.

On the other hand if the problem only for GTlover then I will wrote this directly-I am simply repeating info about GT3 that I got. I am arrogant? Are you serious? So, if I do not share your views about future Porsche models I am arrogant?

Fact is that I am probably way more objective in my views then you. I will be very polite and call most of your posts here on rennteam as "pretty subjective". Remember what you wrote when 991CS Supertest was published?

Other members here are to decide whatever I have an attirude or arrogance in my posts, not you. Sorry.

KresoF1 ...Keep your posts coming. The more information we can share the better our Porsche experience. 

2006 997 C2S Cab, Triple Black,  2006 Cayenne Titanium Iceland Silver Metalic New York

Just for the record, KresoF1, I DO appreciate your comments here on RT !

bobr:

KresoF1 ...Keep your posts coming. The more information we can share the better our Porsche experience. 

+1

KresoF1, keep it coming I'm very appreciate for your info got from your P source. Even bad news that the GT3 will have this ugly Aero Kit wing was very helpful. At least I know what to expect. Just keep posting your info please

--

kreso, I never miss any of your posts not only for the valuable information on new models you always have but also because your opinions ate always very objective with respect to Porsche. please do not let one member get to you and ignore him. you are one of my favorite posters here on Rennteam, keep them coming and never change
--

Keep posting Kreso   Your infos are very valuable and I do look forward to any of them  + your impressions and comments are good input !

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

KresoF1, pls keep posting, mate!

The more - the better)))))))))))))))))))

Carlos from Spain:
kreso, I never miss any of your posts not only for the valuable information on new models you always have but also because your opinions ate always very objective with respect to Porsche. please do not let one member get to you and ignore him. you are one of my favorite posters here on Rennteam, keep them coming and never change

Thanks Carlos! Also, thanks to Gnil and other members that expressed their support.

I must admit that I was little bit shocked when I saw his words. Key is as you clearly point it Carlos to have respect towards Porsche. Is it possible that someone is not understanding that Porsche is actually reading rennteam They really value our complains here and our comments. Did somebody really missed Christian(RC) issues with his Pana TS and how he handle it(with some help from P direclty)?

Problem is that some people do have an issue with 991 models. Fact is that 991 platform is designed with PDK as its core transmission choice. Days of manual for Porsche are over. Sooner or later. I also think that Porsche needs to offer some model that will please manual costumers(maybe it will be 991 GT3 RS?), but... It is progress-whatever we like it  or not.

I will be critic about Porsche models if I think they deserve it(story about 991CS Pirelli tires which are optimized for max dry traction are and suck on wet is an example). BUT, I wont spit on Porsche because I love manual more then PDK or because I have an vision of my dream Porsche model in my head and Porsche is not producing it.

KresoF1:

My attitude? Huh...

So, fact that one of my first cousins works for P is a problem and that he shares some inside info is a problem?

I will ask this: Is this a problem for OTHER members as well or only for GTlover? If other members here feel the same as GTlover I will not post info that my first cousin gives me any more.

On the other hand if the problem only for GTlover then I will wrote this directly-I am simply repeating info about GT3 that I got. I am arrogant? Are you serious? So, if I do not share your views about future Porsche models I am arrogant?

Fact is that I am probably way more objective in my views then you. I will be very polite and call most of your posts here on rennteam as "pretty subjective". Remember what you wrote when 991CS Supertest was published?

Other members here are to decide whatever I have an attirude or arrogance in my posts, not you. Sorry.

Not in the slightest! I always enjoy your posts.

Gnil:

... I do look forward to any of them...

So do I. Anticipation is growing by the day...

KresoF1:

My attitude? Huh...

So, fact that one of my first cousins works for P is a problem and that he shares some inside info is a problem?

I will ask this: Is this a problem for OTHER members as well or only for GTlover? If other members here feel the same as GTlover I will not post info that my first cousin gives me any more.

On the other hand if the problem only for GTlover then I will wrote this directly-I am simply repeating info about GT3 that I got. I am arrogant? Are you serious? So, if I do not share your views about future Porsche models I am arrogant?

Fact is that I am probably way more objective in my views then you. I will be very polite and call most of your posts here on rennteam as "pretty subjective". Remember what you wrote when 991CS Supertest was published?

Other members here are to decide whatever I have an attirude or arrogance in my posts, not you. Sorry.

Hi Kreso,

As you can see - other members - and I appreciate that you mention valuable info here.

When I mean "arrogant" I mean that you always write "period"..Maybe people do this in Croatia..and its normal in this language..will have to ask one of my former girlfriends whether its the case,..but its not nice at all to do this..its like saying - "I know better - you shut up". Its about the formality..which can lead to a misunderstanding..you know..cultural differences

Im not at all doubting the content you write about it..I heard the same plus others too,..so its probably correct. What I wrote in the past...good question - dont remember..you have a good memory..

But we are here despite these differences..to talk about our passion..if you will continue using "period"..fine for me..but I just think its not very nice.

Coming back to the 991 GT3..one thing I dont know..where is the redline of the engine...8000..?

thanks and keep posting,

"Tako je i tacka" :D -That's the way it is, period! :D in Serbo/Croatian or Croat/Serbian depending on your origin :D

Kreso. I like your posts. Period.

GTlover:

KresoF1:

My attitude? Huh...

So, fact that one of my first cousins works for P is a problem and that he shares some inside info is a problem?

I will ask this: Is this a problem for OTHER members as well or only for GTlover? If other members here feel the same as GTlover I will not post info that my first cousin gives me any more.

On the other hand if the problem only for GTlover then I will wrote this directly-I am simply repeating info about GT3 that I got. I am arrogant? Are you serious? So, if I do not share your views about future Porsche models I am arrogant?

Fact is that I am probably way more objective in my views then you. I will be very polite and call most of your posts here on rennteam as "pretty subjective". Remember what you wrote when 991CS Supertest was published?

Other members here are to decide whatever I have an attirude or arrogance in my posts, not you. Sorry.

Hi Kreso,

As you can see - other members - and I appreciate that you mention valuable info here.

When I mean "arrogant" I mean that you always write "period"..Maybe people do this in Croatia..and its normal in this language..will have to ask one of my former girlfriends whether its the case,..but its not nice at all to do this..its like saying - "I know better - you shut up". Its about the formality..which can lead to a misunderstanding..you know..cultural differences

Im not at all doubting the content you write about it..I heard the same plus others too,..so its probably correct. What I wrote in the past...good question - dont remember..you have a good memory..

But we are here despite these differences..to talk about our passion..if you will continue using "period"..fine for me..but I just think its not very nice.

Coming back to the 991 GT3..one thing I dont know..where is the redline of the engine...8000..?

thanks and keep posting,

What to say You got it all wrong. Why? I did not mean "period" as "shout up, I know better" , but as "Porsche already made their decision and whatever you or me disagree with thier decision they will do it".

See the difference? Acutally, I am offended with your suggestion about cultural differences. Currently I am working in business where I am daily in contact with people from France and Germany(Alsace, Burgundy, Rhone and Rheinhessen ragions to give you the clue...) and I never experienced something like you suggested. Well... I will stop here since this debate makes no sense at all here. Different poeople-different opinions.

Red line? More.

KresoF1:

Hmm... Most things written above are true. Some are not...

Why not say which ones?

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

Availability for example is not right. Yes, GT3 will be MY14. But, avialble from end of 2013? Earlier AFAIK.

Ring time will be better then 7.34min since guy who posted that info forgot what is current factory time for 991CS(7.38min).

KresoF1:

GTlover:

KresoF1:

My attitude? Huh...

So, fact that one of my first cousins works for P is a problem and that he shares some inside info is a problem?

I will ask this: Is this a problem for OTHER members as well or only for GTlover? If other members here feel the same as GTlover I will not post info that my first cousin gives me any more.

On the other hand if the problem only for GTlover then I will wrote this directly-I am simply repeating info about GT3 that I got. I am arrogant? Are you serious? So, if I do not share your views about future Porsche models I am arrogant?

Fact is that I am probably way more objective in my views then you. I will be very polite and call most of your posts here on rennteam as "pretty subjective". Remember what you wrote when 991CS Supertest was published?

Other members here are to decide whatever I have an attirude or arrogance in my posts, not you. Sorry.

Hi Kreso,

As you can see - other members - and I appreciate that you mention valuable info here.

When I mean "arrogant" I mean that you always write "period"..Maybe people do this in Croatia..and its normal in this language..will have to ask one of my former girlfriends whether its the case,..but its not nice at all to do this..its like saying - "I know better - you shut up". Its about the formality..which can lead to a misunderstanding..you know..cultural differences

Im not at all doubting the content you write about it..I heard the same plus others too,..so its probably correct. What I wrote in the past...good question - dont remember..you have a good memory..

But we are here despite these differences..to talk about our passion..if you will continue using "period"..fine for me..but I just think its not very nice.

Coming back to the 991 GT3..one thing I dont know..where is the redline of the engine...8000..?

thanks and keep posting,

What to say You got it all wrong. Why? I did not mean "period" as "shout up, I know better" , but as "Porsche already made their decision and whatever you or me disagree with thier decision they will do it".

See the difference? Acutally, I am offended with your suggestion about cultural differences. Currently I am working in business where I am daily in contact with people from France and Germany(Alsace, Burgundy, Rhone and Rheinhessen ragions to give you the clue...) and I never experienced something like you suggested. Well... I will stop here since this debate makes no sense at all here. Different poeople-different opinions.

Red line? More.

OK..I see what youre saying..but to give you an example, I work also with people from France, Russia, US, China, CH etc..never have I seen someone doing that....I know it only in the "rude way", like "I know better"...but I see it was a misunderstaning - case closed

Back to the subject..red line - im putting down my second offer:  8500 - you just have to do either  or

PS: About the Ring Time: no matter how much people will complain about it or say "oh its only xyz seconds faster then the 997 Gt3..this is - for me only half of the story - fact is that at 7:34 - or 7:32 or something there - there are not many cars around that are better/faster (as at this level every little detail counts..and cars below 7:30 are no bargain anymore)- this is -would - be a superb result - Period

And this is coming from someone who is not a really a 991 fan as you know. The new boxster and Caymen suit me much better..if there would be a Cayman R..I would be tempted...my criticism towards too many buttons inside, e-steering - e-handbrake remains..but for the rest I like these two cars a lot. As you said before..a car which is 100% according to ones wishes..is pretty rare..well, I know some that would suit me for 100% - Mclaren F1, RUF CTR2, GT2RS ..now I own a 997 GT2 and a few other ones..and Im happy with them...they are more or less 95% according to my wishes,...

KresoF1:

Availability for example is not right. Yes, GT3 will be MY14. But, avialble from end of 2013? Earlier AFAIK.

Yes - I heard first ones in June..I am 99,9% sure about it since I have this in written form...

Red line will be around 8000rpm. My source told me "above 8000", but IMHO it will be maybe little bit above.

Ring time will be around 7.30min or little bit less-factory one of course. We can expect around 7.32-7.34 in HvS hands since he is always around 5s-6s slower then Porsche factory time.

I am more wondering about the tires since Pirellis that will be for sure on new GT3 are not suited very much for wet road. Some alternative tire would be more then welcome IMO. One that can be used daily or on the wet road with good confidence. Otherwise new GT3 will be only sunny weather toy...

hi kreso..

OK..at least regarding the first deliveries I contributed something here..but if you ask your sources..they can probably confirm it..first ones to be delivered are in June..but not everyone can get them by then..first cars will be for Porsche centres, Porsche itself + some special customers..etc.

Tires: Well - how to say - Porsche used already the best available dry grip tires on the 991S test of 7:37..which they shouldnt have done according to me..because now the difference between 991S in best configuration will be smaller to the GT3 - compared to the situation of the past. This is being an "unfair thing done to the GT3"...but Ok. I know that in my GT2 the wet grip is in heavy rain is almost 0..really - I wouldnt want to accept a performance which is lower then that...its dangerous.

redline: OK..i suspect that in the end - the 997.2 GT3 3.8 was - is - the highest revving Porsche ever..why? If the redline of the new one is exactly also at 8500..due to the PDK - overshifts can be avoided..with overshifts on 997.2 Gt3 one could easily go to 9500..or more. 9500 is not really a problem for the old GT1 engine..I know of GT3s with multiple entries at 6..they have been used on the race track..and are rock solid-and they are still running..no warranty anymore but they are still there.

I would agree  that the 997.2 GT3 is nothing "out of this world"..its a good and solid car..but it "wins" one soul because of the engine. I supect in the 991 GT3 it will be the opposite..great chassis that wins over the soul..but less convincing engine..

We will see,..and I personally would wait until the whole model range is complete..991 GT3, 991 Gt3RS, 991 GT2 (?)..maybe 960..but the concept has to good. 918 - no thanks - cant afford it and even if I could - woudnt buy one.

We know Porsche is racing the 991 with the Mezger engine this year. Is the intention to develop this new DFI GT3 block this year so that they can race it next year? Or will the Mezger continue as the race engine for the foreseeable future?

KesoF1, again thank you for your invaluable contributions to this forum.  Information is a precious commodity and any useful source is always more than welcome.

GTlover:

KresoF1:

Rossi:

I really don't understand this whole Ring-time-mania.

Who of us can really achieve such times? To whom of us are these really important? Who has a benefit in his everyday driving?

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Totally agree with you. Ring time is indication what car can do in VERY capable hands.

Also, I do not understand why are some people here worried about PDK in GT3? Thank God for PDK in GT3 IMHO!

Days of manual gearbox in sportscar are over. Period. Some need to accept that... This is also a good new for 997/997.2 GT3 used market since price will remain more or less stable.

What I do not like to repeat is the fact that 991 become pretty expensive in comparison to 997.2 models. I was thinking to get 991C4S with X51 and end price of my configuration was close to 160K € in Germany! That is too much IMO. New GT3 will probably cost around 130K € as base price and when you add some goodies like Navi etc, you could be in 150K area. If that is the case I could see myself buying new GT3 since it will be chaper then fully equiped 991C4S with X51. BUT, I am affraid that base price of new GT3 will be close to 145K €...

hi Kreso,

While I agree with you that:

a) anything below 7:30 would be sensational - simply because with 450-480hp  cannot achieve 7:20 or anything below

b) that its probably good news for 997.2 GT3 owners..last manual etc.

c) 991 GT3 is too expensive ..but also a 991 4S is be too much

d) manual gearbox will in the long run probably disappear

I dont agree with your - sorry for my words - "arrogance" when you write certain things here.. "your P source..period"..These are elements for me to refrain for being here at rennteam, who are yout to decide about all this..? May I remind you that for the last years Porsche only offered manual gearbox for GT3..the GT3 was a 100% manual car..if people didnt like it they would have bought something else. Besides, I also know a few people at Porsche..its just like any other employer, many are frustrated, some are happy, - I dont know any P employee telling me "great, there will be no manual on 991 GT3; or great, since VW took over - everything is better". Even they realise that probably the good old days of Porsche sportscars are over. That the 911 is not selling well in Germany is no secret..and to get them sold Porsche is giving massive discounts. 5-8% on new ones, which are then 1 year later another 25K€ worth less.

Lets see how in the long term view the whole story will develop..but decisions will not be taken by you or me, or your P-source..the market will dictatete the future. Porsches main problem in the future will be to comply with the relevant legislations..and they are currently already "behind". I know that because of this - which is nit their mistake - we get such "half way - luxury sportcars"

I hope I didnt offend you..but I think your wording/attitutude here is a bit off the line..in other forums I dont see that..

Lets wait for the news on the 991 GT3..would be happy if your ordered one,.,and could us know how it drives

GTlover, thanks for making the point because as you rightly pointed out, it was not the content of the response that was somewhat arrogant, the delivery certainly was... 

Some of us may believe that the manual is a dinosaur that should be buried BUT as you rightly pointed out, for over the past decade the GT following and phenomenon has been centred around a manual based car. The introduction of PDK is great but why a company would make it mandatory on a niche vehicle that has established its own kind of enthusiast following then offer it as an option only on a Carrera or CS is crazy! If they wanted to make it a PDK only range, take it out of the mainstream cars to lower emissions targets and at least offer the option for those whom have grown to appreciate it. Sure, after one or two generations it may have been phased out but not so abruptly as is planned.

The GT3 may well end up going from "the origin motorsport" car to the "cars and coffee" car and that would be a truely sad day for the brand indeed....

Kreso,  your  input on new models is appreciated but respect that others have grown to appreciate ther cars a certain way and would love the "choice" of deciding the transmission in their cars as you're enjoying if you go the Carrera path!