Crown

no 4wd steering for gt3 ;)

KresoF1:

BTW, rear view mirrors... Will there be one or two design of rear view mirrors?

Rear view mirrors from the 991 GT3 Cup... 

Boxster Coupe GTS:

KresoF1:

BTW, rear view mirrors... Will there be one or two design of rear view mirrors?

Rear view mirrors from the 991 GT3 Cup... 

 

I doubt it, as they don't look as if they could deflect if they hit a pedestrian (as required by safety regs). 

fritz

I think new Turbo and at least some variants of the GT3 will share the same mirrors:

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Rossi:

I think new Turbo and at least some variants of the GT3 will share the same mirrors:

 

 

It does indeed look like it, so there must be some provision for the mirror swivelling out of the way in the event of it being struck from the front or rear. 

fritz

the "twin stalk" mirrors look really good.

it probably turns at its base, where it meets the door panel

A bit off-topic but, given the discussion around relative pricing, the new Cayman seems to be getting impressive reviews...

Porsche Cayman S first drive review by Autocar...

 

 

The Porsche Cayman S provides an alluring combination of power, balance, fluidity, quality and price to make it the best value driver’s car on sale right now...

 

(8 February 2013)

 

What is it?

 

Twenty three thousand pounds. That is the figure you must not lose track of when reading this first drive of the second-generation Porsche Cayman. It refers to the price difference between the new range topping Cayman S driven here and the latest 911 Carrera, whose 3.4-litre flat six-cylinder boxer engine it shares, if in lightly detuned guise. 

 

Yes, the pricing of the new Cayman S is aggressive. With a base sticker of £48,783 it is little changed from that of its predecessor. Among its more keener two-door rivals is the Audi TT RS Quattro at £48,120. But it is the £77,449 Porsche 911 Carrera against which it must surely be compared.

 

Seeing it away from a motor show stand for the first time only serves to reinforce early impressions of just what a good looking car it is. As with its Porsche Boxster sibling, the new coupé adopts an edgier appearance, with tauter surfacing and crisper lines, as well as a noticeably sleeker profile. 

 

The wheelhouses have also increased in size, allowing Porsche to fit the Cayman S with 19-inch wheels as standard and offer 20s as an option. Among the features helping to distinguish the new Cayman from the year-old Boxster are daytime running lights and indicators housed within a round unit within the front bumper, more pronounced rear haunches and a heavily angled liftback at the rear.

 

Length is up by 35mm, width extends by 1mm while height drops by 10mm over its predecessor at 4380mm, 1801mm and 1295mm respectively. The Cayman also rides on a 30mm longer wheelbase at 2475mm, while the track widths have increased by 40mm to 1526mm at the front and by 18mm to 1540mm at the rear. 

 

As part of Porsche’s focus on weight saving, the body is now predominantly aluminium, with the rest fashioned from a combination of magnesium and hot formed high-strength steel. Porsche is claiming a 25kg saving in the body structure, although the added dimensions and a larger interior mean overall kerb weight has crept up marginally.

 

What is it like?

 

Few car makers understand basic ergonomics quite as well as Porsche. The Cayman’s driving position is beyond criticism, supported by additional levels of steering wheel and seat adjustment owing to a stretch in overall cabin length. You’re immediately aware of greater levels of accommodation, particularly shoulder room. Visibility is also quite sound, thanks in part to a more cab-forward design and larger rear three quarter windows. 

 

Porsche has worked hard to provide the new Cayman with a richer and more visually inviting interior than its predecessor. It is all carried over from the Boxster, of course, but that doesn’t distract from it in any way. Broader and more heavily contoured seats add to comfort levels while providing added levels of support. It’s still a two seat layout, although it is now imminently more practical. 

 

There is greater oddment stowage space, too, and the deep front luggage compartment is reasonably sized at 150 litres. The shallow rear luggage shelf behind the seats at 162 litres is less practical, but it’s welcome all the same. 

 

Apart from the superb ergonomics, it is the quality that really stands out. It says a lot that in other Porsche models costing twice as much the perceived fit and finish is much the same. The only criticism we have is its adoption of an electrically operated handbrake whose switch is unnecessarily hidden within the outer edge of the dashboard. They call it progress...

 

Having spent a good deal of time in the mechanically identical Boxster over the past year, we suspected the Cayman would be a step beyond its predecessor in accelerative potential. And it doesn’t disappoint. The initial range topping S model driven here runs a revised version of the old model’s 3.4-litre flat six engine – as used in the latest 911 Carrera, albeit in a higher state of tune. 

 

The short stroke unit, endowed with constantly variable valve timing and valve lift and a second induction system to enable it to breathe both through both the air ducts incorporated into the bodywork behind the doors, kicks out an additional 5bhp, delivering 320bhp at 7400rpm. Torque is up by 5lb ft, swelling to 270lb ft at 5800rpm, or 1300rpm higher than before.

 

They’re hardly class-leading figures, and intentionally suppressed so as not to allow the Cayman S to encroach too much upon the more profitable 911 Carrera. But thanks to Porsche’s efforts in suppressing weight to 1350kg, the new Cayman boasts a power-to-weight ratio of 237bhp per tonne. 

 

The engine now features a Sport mode as standard. Activated via a switch on the centre console, it alters the throttle response through the adoption of remapped electronics. A six-speed manual gearbox continues as standard, with a seven speed dual clutch unit with shift paddles, as fitted to our test car, key among a long list of options. 

 

Other options include the Sport Chrono package, which brings dynamic engine mounts that constantly alter their stiffness and damping characteristics to reduce load change for more neutral handling. A further must-have is the optional sports exhaust, if only for the added aural entertainment it brings. 

 

Response, flexibility, smoothness are central to the engine’s appeal. There is a pleasing immediacy to the delivery at lower revs range. But it is through the midrange and up high where it is at its most engaging – and it’s nothing less than brilliant. The revised engine demands more revs, but that only extends its allure. 

 

The truly compelling factor with the new Cayman S is just how much performance you get for your money, particularly with the optional dual clutch gearbox and sport chrono package. So configured, it will accelerate from 0 to 62mph in 4.7sec, 0 to 124mph in 16.9sec and reach a claimed 175mph. 

 

The inherent liveliness these figures allude to is fully present when the Cayman S is given sufficient room to move and there’s never any doubt about its ability to carry its revs to the 7600rpm redline, such is the voracity of the delivery. 

 

The changes to the chassis also provide added levels of straight line stability and a calmer feel to the steering. Above 150mph there is a lightness to the front owing to positive lift, but while it knocks your confidence initially it never becomes unmanageable. 

 

The Cayman S is, by class standards, fast. But the gains in straightline potential over its predecessor can’t all be directed at its reworked engine. The optional seven speed dual clutch gearbox also plays a pivotal role.

 

On the one hand, it endows the new coupe with the sort of relaxed usability that makes it a highly desirable everyday proposition, providing excellent part throttle operation in stop and go traffic. But it is the decisive action of the shifts when you switch to manual mode that leaves us in no doubt that it will be the preferred choice of gearbox. 

 

With contemporary fuel saving features such as automatic stop/start and brake energy recuperation as well as a coasting function all coming as standard, the Cayman S’s combined cycle fuel economy has improved by a creditable 4.6mpg to 35.3mpg in combination with the dual clutch ’box. It also reduces average CO2 emissions from 221g/km to 188g/km. 

 

After flinging the Cayman down a broad six-lane autobahn, we headed on to some brilliantly smooth mountain roads south of Stuttgart. But even before reaching the first corner, we’d already made some interesting observations. 

 

Firstly, it is easily placed on the road. Despite its larger dimensions, it rarely feels any bigger than the old Cayman. The newly adopted electro-mechanical steering is tremendously engaging. It might lack the subtle feedback that characterized the earlier hydraulic system but what it lacks in ultimate communication, it more than makes up for in consistency of weighting, eagerness to self centre and sheer directness. There’s also a new found calmness that makes the new car less demanding when driven hard for long periods. 

 

In line with German regulations, our test car came shod on high performance winter tyres, a set of 19-inch Michelin Pilot Sport A/S in the same 235/40 and 265/40 profile as the regular pneus. But even they couldn’t mask the breathtaking delicacy, astonishing agility and sheer composure of the Cayman‘s handling, which unquestionably remains the benchmark in the class.

 

We were fully expecting the new coupé to be a little special in the dynamic department. But it is safe to say that the admittedly highly specified example you see pictured here exceeded all our expectations by a good margin. 

 

On dry roads, grip is never in doubt. Its stance through fast corners is terrifically neutral, helped tremendously by the ability of the body to resist roll. The inclusion of torque vectoring, which uses the stability management to provide individual braking to the rear wheels, helps to extend the dynamic envelope, providing the basis for added poise and improved balance, without detracting from the driving experience in any way. In combination with the locking differential, it also provides tremendous drive out of corners, allowing you to get on the throttle early without fear of some backwards led reprisal. 

 

More accomplished, then, but it is far from clinical. Turning off the various driving aids exposes the inherent balance and ability to hang out the tail, revealing just how entertaining the Cayman will prove on the track.

 

The really striking aspect, though, is just how undemanding it is at the sort of speeds that would have rivals struggling. The Cayman manages to achieve such lofty standards of handling prowess with a ride that is surprisingly supple and more cosseting than that of its predecessor.

 

The active suspension management system can be credited with some of the progress here. It is a clear improvement on the old arrangement, which we already held in fairly high stead. The longer wheelbase no doubt helps, too. 

 

Should I buy one?

 

It’s rare that a car moves us as much as the new Cayman S has – at least on first acquaintance. 

 

With more power, compelling looks, sharper handling, improved comfort, a sumptuous interior and added practicality, it is a clear improvement on its predecessor in every discernible area. 

 

Dare I say, it is the best car Porsche builds right now, and at twenty three thousand less than the 911 Carrera, terrific value. 

 

Porsche Cayman S

 

Price £48,783; 0-62mph 4.7sec; Top speed 175mph; Economy 35.3mpg (combined); CO2 188g/km; Kerb weight 1350kg; Engine 6-cyl, horizontally-opposed, 3436cc petrol; Installation mid, longitudinal, RWD; Power 320bhp at 7400rpm; Torque 270lb ft at 5800rpm; Gearbox 7-spd dual-clutch auto

 

Porsche Cayman S -- First Drive Video by Autocar

 

 

Porsche Cayman S -- First Drive -- Autocar Link

Porsche Cayman S -- First Drive -- Video Link

...look forward to seeing the other models in the range -- how about a new Cayman with a GT3 engine!?! 

Why is this Cayman review is in this thread?   The same review were posted in Cayman thread as well..... Perhaps I don't understand something, but I really don't get it, why post the same material in two different threads???

--

Thank you SCG, I was thinking the same.

Would anybody stop posting the same posts in different threads, particularly in threads where they don't belong, please!

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

SportCarGroup:

Why is this Cayman review is in this thread? 

With sincere apologies, it is a bit off-topic as indicated but -- given the discussion around pricing of the Porsche range and the comparisons between the Cayman S and the 991 Carrera -- it may be of interest for some potential 991 customers...

...now back on topic, how about some new pictures of the Porsche 991 GT3 in testing?

Porsche 991 Turbo cold weather mule testing...

...maybe gearing up for a debut at the Frankfurt International Motor Show in September 2013?

Cayman will never be as exciting to a hardcore Porsche man as the 911

I don't think we'll see many new spy shots of the 991 GT3, as the official teaser is on the way....First official pic's probably in two weeks.....

Upsa:

Cayman will never be as exciting to a hardcore Porsche man as the 911

From a drivers' perspective, I think that's nonsense.

Porker:

Upsa:

Cayman will never be as exciting to a hardcore Porsche man as the 911

From a drivers' perspective, I think that's nonsense.

Particularly if they continue to push the base Carrera towards the Grand Touring segment and move the Cayman (including upcoming Cayman R or more extreme versions) to the sportier segment.

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550

I see what you gents are saying, however I meant simply that a person who has aspired all his life towards owning a 911 one day (grail car) may never in his heart of hearts be truly satisfied with a Cayman or a Cayenne or a Panny or Pajun or Macan or whatever model Porsche comes out with for their own corporate compulsions. Even if he gets the Cayman R he will always continue to aspire towards a 911 Gt3 or turbo (or whatever model makes him smile). I am just saying this because thats how I feel at the moment, maybe it was erroneous to apply such a broad  brush stroke to what is clearly an inherently subjective thing. We are all individuals with our own peculiar needs, wants & desires. Apologies if anybody was offended 

Can we go back to 911s now, they have another thread for Cayman 

I have never aspired to own a 911, but I want a GT3 - because it is alive in the fullest sense of the word, in contrast to all the other models Porsche makes. 

I have owned 4 911's and 1 Boxster S over the last 40 years and have loved them ALL.  That said I feel that Porsche's mid-engined platforms are the MOST balanced and Best HANDLING of the entire line up.  Until one has owned and driven these wonderful cars, do not criticize what you are not totally familiar with ( and that includes a short test drive).

I currently own a 2007 C4S and really love this car.  It DID take me some time to get used to it after owning the Boxster S for 10 years.   I prefer the architecture of the 911 because I now find the mid engined platform of the coupe (Cayman) a bit claustrophobic.  

Most likely my next car will be a 991 S.................... :-)

hello, I am still waiting for the TARGA 991... any ideas when it is due to be released ?

I am currently selling my 997 targa macadamia PDK...

In between, I 'll be driving for fun, a German 993 2S, mirage/paladio Metallic (very rare color)

997 C2 Macadamia PSE 1st gen

997 Targa 4 Macadamia  PSE sport+ pdk 2nd gen

Dave63:

I have owned 4 911's and 1 Boxster S over the last 40 years and have loved them ALL.  That said I feel that Porsche's mid-engined platforms are the MOST balanced and Best HANDLING of the entire line up.  Until one has owned and driven these wonderful cars, do not criticize what you are not totally familiar with ( and that includes a short test drive).

I currently own a 2007 C4S and really love this car.  It DID take me some time to get used to it after owning the Boxster S for 10 years.   I prefer the architecture of the 911 because I now find the mid engined platform of the coupe (Cayman) a bit claustrophobic.  

Most likely my next car will be a 991 S.................... :-)

After 40 years of 911s I moved to a Boxter S RS-60 and it was better than any of the 911s I owned. Then I drove my 991C2S and traded on the spot.  It is in another dimension. It gives away no balance or handling performance or feel  to the best of Porsche's mid engine (non hyper) cars. It is all 911 goodness - at a very elevated level of usable performance. 

Note however, that the 981s now give away little of the comfort and ambience of the 991. But each has its own character, each is more than the sum of its parts. I believe each has value to match cost. Until the 981 gets another 50 ft/lbs of torque and another 50 hp, there is a very substantial difference in desirability - for me. 

chuckb:

Dave63:

I have owned 4 911's and 1 Boxster S over the last 40 years and have loved them ALL.  That said I feel that Porsche's mid-engined platforms are the MOST balanced and Best HANDLING of the entire line up.  Until one has owned and driven these wonderful cars, do not criticize what you are not totally familiar with ( and that includes a short test drive).

I currently own a 2007 C4S and really love this car.  It DID take me some time to get used to it after owning the Boxster S for 10 years.   I prefer the architecture of the 911 because I now find the mid engined platform of the coupe (Cayman) a bit claustrophobic.  

Most likely my next car will be a 991 S.................... :-)

After 40 years of 911s I moved to a Boxter S RS-60 and it was better than any of the 911s I owned. Then I drove my 991C2S and traded on the spot.  It is in another dimension. It gives away no balance or handling performance or feel  to the best of Porsche's mid engine (non hyper) cars. It is all 911 goodness - at a very elevated level of usable performance. 

Note however, that the 981s now give away little of the comfort and ambience of the 991. But each has its own character, each is more than the sum of its parts. I believe each has value to match cost. Until the 981 gets another 50 ft/lbs of torque and another 50 hp, there is a very substantial difference in desirability - for me. 

 

Spot on. I have had my RS60 for 3.5 years and only two Porsches have surpassed it for fun factor - the 997 3.8 GT3 RS and the 991 C2S...

Grant:

KresoF1:

Hmm... Most things written above are true. Some are not...

I'm hoping the Integrated Dry Sump is one of the false things...

well - hoping is one thing- but from what I heard this is correct. Kreso said some things are correct..some not..

can we know what is not correct? You said something about the ring time..I doubt that there will be a big difference..if 7:34 is mentioned its probably - and roughly correct. 7:23 for example is not possible with 450-470HP..so its probably correct..plus what really counts is how well the car does later in the independent tests..manufacturer claims are one thing..

The price is hower its problem..from 112 to 150..is Porsche going crazy? The name itself..or the badge GT3 are not enough to fool us around..I expect some "serious explanations" :)

GTlover:

Grant:

KresoF1:

Hmm... Most things written above are true. Some are not...

I'm hoping the Integrated Dry Sump is one of the false things...

well - hoping is one thing- but from what I heard this is correct. Kreso said some things are correct..some not..

can we know what is not correct? You said something about the ring time..I doubt that there will be a big difference..if 7:34 is mentioned its probably - and roughly correct. 7:23 for example is not possible with 450-470HP..so its probably correct..plus what really counts is how well the car does later in the independent tests..manufacturer claims are one thing..

The price is hower its problem..from 112 to 150..is Porsche going crazy? The name itself..or the badge GT3 are not enough to fool us around..I expect some "serious explanations" :)

Perhaps they will follow the same overpricing model as the 991 Carrera. With a DFI engine that costs far less to produce than the Mezger the GT3 may move from the worst profit margin to the best. 

hi boytronic,

Yes..thats exactly what Im thinking. Luckily Porsche did more or less a good job with the new caymen and boxster..OK I dont like the e-steering and e- handbrake + the too many buttons insinde..but apart from that I can see myself buying this "product"...a boxster RS oder Cayman R..that would be interesting.

But 150K for a new GT3..which will probably loose 25k value after 3000kms..and will be no collector item in the future..no thanks. I will never trade my 3.8 or my other 997 GT variant for that ..no way.

Regarding the preformance of the new GT3, I read in an interview that was maybe also in this thread or another forum - forgot - that the new 991 GT3 will be on 997.2GT3RS level..these words are coming directly from Andreas Preuninger..so Kreso..if you know more..let us know.

I wrote already too much here... Those who know Porsche can "read" pretty well info that my P source gave me.

Since I know 99% of all 991 GT3 facts I can tell you that you could be wrong in at least few of your assumptions. 991 GT3 presentation is shortly and within next ten days some info could leak to the web.

New GT3 will be faster both on the track and in straight line then any 997.2 GT3 version. Period. 7.34min time is what HvS will achieve in 991 GT3 if he will be in the good mood on test day. Porsche factory driver is faster.

Only problem that I have with new GT3 is its price. IMHO it will be too expensive. Same goes to lesser degree to forthcoming 991 Turbo/Turbo S.

hi kreso,

ok thanks..although its difficult to predict HvS time..lets see. Of course factory drivers are faster..but the same goes for nissan or ferrari..so one could argue endlessly on this.

The Sport Auto test is a good independent test..remember that the MP4-12C was tested at 7:27..and really - the 991 Gt3 cannot and will not be quicker then that - even if a Porsche factory drives claimes that...I would consider this a "bs"

Besides, I dont think that there are many around here who are faster then HvS...he is an old man..I know..but he knows very little grain of sand on the track there..he has been  "living there for 30 years"..dont forget.

The price, fully agree, 150 is too much..if after one year they are still worth 135-140..I would think about it..but I suspect it will follow the 991 fate..- 1 year = -25k.

997.2 GT3s are still around 95--and they are now roughly 3 years old.

Thanks for the info anyway,

Kreso F1, will we see new 991 Turbo this year?

Another problem is if the GT3 price is too much a decent spec one will be close to used 458 / MP4-12C money. And although the GT3 is traditionally the better drivers car, something like a used 458 with 3/4 years remaining on a 7 year warranty / service package becomes a realistic proposition. 

The new Gt3 may have to be offered with discounts to tempt buyers... It is not a collectors item just like the Carrera. 

Those GT3 prices are ideed silly

I allways cosidered them as a bargain in 911 range,costing te same as a well equipped Carrera S

The catch was that you had to spec Carrera well if you were ever going to sell it for decent price and a GT3 was more desirable if it had less equipement which made them cost the same

And GT3 seems to be getting more mainstream so if you want the 'real' one you have to get an RS for maybe 180k,which is double 996gt3 mk1 money

KresoF1:

I wrote already too much here... Those who know Porsche can "read" pretty well info that my P source gave me.

Since I know 99% of all 991 GT3 facts I can tell you that you could be wrong in at least few of your assumptions. 991 GT3 presentation is shortly and within next ten days some info could leak to the web.

New GT3 will be faster both on the track and in straight line then any 997.2 GT3 version. Period. 7.34min time is what HvS will achieve in 991 GT3 if he will be in the good mood on test day. Porsche factory driver is faster.

Only problem that I have with new GT3 is its price. IMHO it will be too expensive. Same goes to lesser degree to forthcoming 991 Turbo/Turbo S.

Thanks for your input Kreso!

Regarding your comment on lap times, considering the Carrera S made gains in excess of 10sec on the new chassis alone, anything other than a reproducable time in the high 7.20s will be a disappointment for a car on a better chassis, more power, less weight and now with the must have PDK  which is there supposedly to speed things up... A mezger powered, manual 991 gt3 with the weight reduction of the 991 platform would have easily done a 7.34 without forcing all enthusiast customers to a PDK... Not against the PDK, but it should have been an option given to customers whom have supported and enjoyed an iconic car for over 10 years in manual format...