CloseCPA4S:
RC, my dealor swears that at least in NA, we are seeing V6 Gen 2 Panamera's only. they will also be including a GTS variant right out of the gates
Does it make sense to you to introduce the unloved V6 model(s) only? I'm not sure about a GTS and Turbo S though but the V8 and V8 Turbo are a sure thing.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
Jan 5, 2013 12:13:15 PM
RC:
CPA4S:
RC, my dealor swears that at least in NA, we are seeing V6 Gen 2 Panamera's only. they will also be including a GTS variant right out of the gates
Does it make sense to you to introduce the unloved V6 model(s) only? I'm not sure about a GTS and Turbo S though but the V8 and V8 Turbo are a sure thing.
Would it be safe to call the V6 an unloved engine? I personally think the V6 petrol is a phenomenal powertrain with smooth delivery, a great sound and more than adequate power for the real world and more than worthy of the Porsche badge; heck, I think this engine should be dropped into the base Cayenne instead of the antiquated VW VR6. Don't forget that when Porsche first launched the V6 models, they anticipated that more than half of the Panameras leaving Leipzig would be built with the V6 engine. Based on what I see in Kuwait and the Middle East along, the V6s are the bread-and-butter of the Panamera line.
rulesdontapply
Jan 5, 2013 12:17:12 PM
I don't like the V6 too much for the Panamera, I would prefer the Diesel instead, despite the lower power figure (on paper). For me, the minimum power engine for the Panamera and Cayenne, is the V8 from the GTS line. I know that the V6 isn't bad at all but maybe if Porsche would shave off 200 kg from the Panamera weight, the V6 would be great. I also don't see much of a future in the V6, maybe as a V6 Turbo or supercharged.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
he was talkig about near 400hp v6 engines but not sure if it was via turbo or supercharge. anyway, i agree RC, it doesn't make a lot of sense in the long run particularly in NA where gas is still pretty cheap on a world basis, but maybe they will try to push early volume on this V6 engine to spread costs around. then again, tough to see how they could stuff the same engine in a Macan & a Panamera - those sound like they will be very different price point vehicles.
end of the day though, my history with turbo engines has always resulted in short ownership. i just don't like them so am thinking pretty hard with getting a last build GTS V8.
the latest picture on the possible refresh shows a much more car like back end & frankly i didn't like it at all notwithstanding the rear light treatments all look good. if one result of a change is reduced rear boot space, that would not be a good side effect.
2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold / 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual /2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold
You really think that Porsche would replace the V8 engines in the Panamera with powerful V6 engines? I highly doubt it. In the Panamera "class", V8 engines are a must.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
Jan 5, 2013 1:02:37 PM
RC:
I don't like the V6 too much for the Panamera, I would prefer the Diesel instead, despite the lower power figure (on paper). For me, the minimum power engine for the Panamera and Cayenne, is the V8 from the GTS line. I know that the V6 isn't bad at all but maybe if Porsche would shave off 200 kg from the Panamera weight, the V6 would be great. I also don't see much of a future in the V6, maybe as a V6 Turbo or supercharged.
I can see what you mean and I agree for the most part. I feel the V6 is a great start with a lot of potential - higher power outputs in the future, super/turbocharging; many possibilities exist for this little lump. I think the V8 in the GTS is the range's sweet spot in terms of power, performance and livability but I maintain that it's a bit powerful/extravagant for the speed-regulated world we live in.
rulesdontapply
RC:
You really think that Porsche would replace the V8 engines in the Panamera with powerful V6 engines? I highly doubt it. In the Panamera "class", V8 engines are a must.
there were rumors that porsche would replace the engine in panamera S model from V8 atmo to V6 turbo and increasing both HP and Torque and lowering weight?. Could this be right?
Jan 6, 2013 3:52:18 AM
Jan 6, 2013 9:49:01 PM
front light cut out unchanged but newer styled lighting mechanisim - encourages those who want the freshest face to upgrade so can't blame Porsche.
rear window on hatch pulls down lower and the rear light cut outs lowered and thinned a bit to make the rear end less bulbous.
frankly not enough changes imo to make one hold off on a first run Gen 1 if you were in the spring ordering mood
--
2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold / 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual /2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold
artur777:
RC:
You really think that Porsche would replace the V8 engines in the Panamera with powerful V6 engines? I highly doubt it. In the Panamera "class", V8 engines are a must.
there were rumors that porsche would replace the engine in panamera S model from V8 atmo to V6 turbo and increasing both HP and Torque and lowering weight?. Could this be right?
I think you are confusing the facelift with the rumored "Pajun". 
The Panamera facelift will get the V8 engines (N/A and Turbo), this is a fact.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
RC:
artur777:
RC:
You really think that Porsche would replace the V8 engines in the Panamera with powerful V6 engines? I highly doubt it. In the Panamera "class", V8 engines are a must.
there were rumors that porsche would replace the engine in panamera S model from V8 atmo to V6 turbo and increasing both HP and Torque and lowering weight?. Could this be right?
I think you are confusing the facelift with the rumored "Pajun".
The Panamera facelift will get the V8 engines (N/A and Turbo), this is a fact.
OK, you are right indeed
.
there were rumors that porsche would replace the engine in panamera S model from V8 atmo to V6 turbo and increasing both HP and Torque and lowering weight?. Could this be right?
I think you are confusing the facelift with the rumored "Pajun".
The Panamera facelift will get the V8 engines (N/A and Turbo), this is a fact.
this isn't what people are thinking or confusing. the dealor/owners in NA are being told V6TT engines for the panamera. maybe it is just for the intro but nonetheless, that is what is being said in rather loud terms.
2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold / 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual /2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold
CPA4S:
.
there were rumors that porsche would replace the engine in panamera S model from V8 atmo to V6 turbo and increasing both HP and Torque and lowering weight?. Could this be right?
I think you are confusing the facelift with the rumored "Pajun".
The Panamera facelift will get the V8 engines (N/A and Turbo), this is a fact.
this isn't what people are thinking or confusing. the dealor/owners in NA are being told V6TT engines for the panamera. maybe it is just for the intro but nonetheless, that is what is being said in rather loud terms.
Who tells them? I mean c'mon...Audi, BMW and Mercedes get V8 engines but the Porsche Panamera only V6 engines? Does this sound right to you?!
I really think the dealers got something wrong here...maybe they were told something about the Macan or the "Pajun", I can even imagine that Porsche will add a V6 turbo charged engine to the model line, somewhere between the V6 and the V8 but no V8? This is absolutely impossible, it would kill the Panamera.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
i really think the dealor/owners in NA know what cars Porsche is talking about - little insulting to suggest they don't know the models of the company they have a h#ll of a lot of capital behind.
anyway read the posts again, no one said the V8 was toast - just not in this re-launch over here. - time will tell & whomever is right shouldn't rub it in
--
2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold / 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual /2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold
So far in this thread, possible facelift changes are:
Slight changes in front and rear lights
Slight changes in front and rear fascias
Larger dash touchscreen
possible side skirt changes
modest power bump (10HP or so)
Am I missing something? For example. will facelift turbo performance match current generation Turbo with power kit?
Any new materials to make car lighter? New colors? FL intro in Geneva in March?
The power bumps will be higher as far as I heard.
So far, I heard that the V8 gets 420 hp (instead of 400 hp) and the V8 Turbo gets 540 hp (instead of 500 hp). Plus/minus a couple of horses.
It is also very likely that the new S Diesel engine with 381 hp will make it into the Panamera, power could hit 400 hp. In Europe, the S Diesel engine could actually "kill" the regular V8.
Turbo S performance should be bumped to 580 hp though...if there will be a Turbo S for the facelift. As far as I heard, a powerkit may not be available anymore for the facelift.
--
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
Jan 9, 2013 10:34:12 AM
I don't think Porsche's doing anything special at Detroit this year; maybe show the Panamera Sport Turismo off a little more, otherwise it'll probably be present with a conventional stand and some emphasis on the new Cayman.
I was hoping for a release as soon as possible; my local dealer is giving discounts of over 3000 KWD/10500 USD on current Panamera inventory due to the imminent facelift, but no one's been informed of a date of when the model will debut. My guess is that we'll see the 971 in Beijing or Shanghai in April in the vein of the first Panamera unveiling in Shanghai in 2009.
rulesdontapply
Jan 9, 2013 11:51:58 AM
The last rumor I heard about the facelift introduction (availability of actual cars at dealers) was autumn 2013...pretty late. I'm still not completely sold on this late date but who knows... 
Porsche will announce the Panamera facelift before spring, this is all I know.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
SciFrog:
No 3rd seating in the rear?
They even offer now 5-seater option:
Wonderbar:
Thanks for the replies and information. i hope the introduction will be at Geneva in March, as i will be attending press days there. RC, any chance of your coming up to Geneva? Anyone else from Rennteam?
I would love to come but I can't because of work. 
Somebody has to pay the bills... 
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
CPA4S:
i really think the dealor/owners in NA know what cars Porsche is talking about - little insulting to suggest they don't know the models of the company they have a h#ll of a lot of capital behind.
anyway read the posts again, no one said the V8 was toast - just not in this re-launch over here. - time will tell & whomever is right shouldn't rub it in
--
2012 991 C2S -PDK / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold / 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual /2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold
This doesn't make any sense. Why would Porsche leave out the "typical" V8 market North America?
I really think your dealer got it wrong...somehow. Only explanation.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
Jan 13, 2013 6:11:25 PM
MotorAuthority just posted a few spy shots of the 971. Fairly routine stuff - updated bumpers, intakes and lighting but I must say that the new rear light patterns are dramatically different than the current ones although the shape is identical. This car looks amazing; can't be long before we see it.
rulesdontapply
***
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2008 Porsche Boxster S PDE2
2012 Porsche Cayenne S
Jan 13, 2013 7:12:31 PM
Wow...Porsche must be p.ss.d, the rear light design is actually out of the box now, look carefully, this is it. 
Shouldn't be long though until the press announcement comes...
The facelift is a...facelift. The Panamera will have the same shape but with changes to make the car look more slick and less massive. The rear lights will not look like the ones on the Grand Turismo, I think these night shots proves it pretty well. Also the Panamera does not get the 991 front lights.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4
Jan 14, 2013 6:34:23 AM
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