Crown

Carlos from Spain:

what a race! best of the season.

bottom line, the best car takes the championship, the best driver takes de subchampionship...

The best driver is the driver who wins the championship  

MKSGR:

Carlos from Spain:

what a race! best of the season.

bottom line, the best car takes the championship, the best driver takes de subchampionship...

The best driver is the driver who wins the championship  

Absolutely...its always a driver/car combination, that´s motorsport.

Another superb race by Seb.

Wow, when Vetts car took the side shunt from Senna I thought there has to be some damage that will end Vetts race, just shows how well built there cars are. And then Vett  was in last place only to keep cool and charge through the pack on a slippery track, I think that in itself has silenced a lot of his critics.

throt

"I didn't do it"

There is no try. Just do.

It is an exaggeration to attribute Vettel's third title to just the car and give the impression that his achievement was a walk in the park and a foregone conclusion from the beginning.

He came from behind to win the title as he only took the title lead in mid October in Korea after 3 consecutive victories, overcame adversity in Abu Dhabi and today in Brazil (in the wet) with great maturity and nerves of steel in order to join the short list of 6 triple F1 champions together with Brabham, JYS, Senna, Piquet and Lauda. 

Was Vettel  lucky all the way? Remember Valencia and think again.

Alonso has the ability to win more titles in the future if he is provided with a good car, but this is not very relevant to our evaluation of Vettel as a superb champion.

--

"Form follows function"

At the end the season ended in all fairness! Just thinking about all the unlucky circumstances Sebastian went through in many of the races. Clearly best racer wins the championship. Same for the car - best car!

Pentium:
Excellent race! Bravo Vettel! Bravo Button! Sorry Alonso! Goodbye Michael!
 

This sums it up beautifully :)

What a ding-dong battle all race long ... thoroughly enjoyable and entertaining ...

I felt sorry for Hamilton having his final race at McLaren ruined by Hulkenberg.

Button was sublime ... Alonso fought bravely but Vettel did everything he needed ...

Such a wonderful end to such a wonderful season.

Nice to see Schumi do a lap of honour before the race - he's earned a hero's exit.

The really interesting bit now is to see which drivers will move in the winter break and whether HRT will be bought ...

Farewell to Petrov, Kovaleinen, Kobayashi, Senna, PDLR and Karthikeyan perhaps?

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

I am quite satisfied with Ferrari's 2nd place in the Constructors' Championship; a place that they really shouldn't have gotten. Other than that, a remarkable race with an unremarkable ending. 

It looks pretty clear to me that Vettle passed Kobayashi under yellows.....

http://www1.skysports.com/formula1/video/12870/8282348    (the illegal move is a couple of mins into the video)

Strange no other media has picked up on this illegal overtake? 

If the stewards gave him a 5 second penalty it would have a HUGE effect on his race position as they finished under safety car...and thus he may get ZERO points....which means Alonso would win.

Interesting huh! 

Just learn the facts. Stationary yellow = slippery track.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/186443/1/stewards_confirm_vettel_overtake_move_was_legal.html

jesse:

Just learn the facts. Stationary yellow = slippery track.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/186443/1/stewards_confirm_vettel_overtake_move_was_legal.html

 

No, it doesn't.  Stationary yellow = exercise caution, no overtaking.  Striped yellow and red = slippery track.  That's what the stewards appear to be saying, i.e. that the flags/lights were yelow & red, not solid yellow - although they certainly look yellow on that video.  

I've raced cars for years. The first thing you are told on a racetrack is that you DO NOT OVERTAKE if there is ANY yellow flag. Waved yellow means drive at a speed where you can take avoiding action (ie slow down a bit) and do not overtake. Stationary yellow means there is no immediate danger but you are still not allowed to overtake. 

In my view it was yellow where he overtook. And yellow again at the top of the hill. I did not see the red/yellow stripe flag (slippery flag). 

jcparki:

Strange no other media has picked up on this illegal overtake? 

Sky coverage picked it up and mentioned it when it happened.

Carlos from Spain:

Strickly driver speaking I think everybody knows who is the best and most complete F1 driver on the grid by far.

If you look at the championship points table, you can see its nothing short fo a miracle for a Ferrari (who barely made the Q3's in the GP's) to be only 3 points behind a RBR car and so many points ahead of the rest behind... that was all to driver 

First of all, congratulations to Vettel, this was the hardest season and makes the final laps winning his 3rd in a row all the much sweeter! And OMG what a race it was. Alonso certainly put up a great fight, I was on the edge of my seat the entire time. First, Vettel spun out and I thought that is it while Alonso did amazing to get to 3rd, which he needed!! Then Vettel ran 8 seconds faster than the leader and quickly caught up to the pack and before you knew it he was behind Alonso!!!! I wish there was footage of this amazing feat alone.. Alonso showed some nerves going wide in turn one a couple of times and I though OMG he's done no way (I wouldn't wish him to crash out). Then comes the rain and RBR totally fucks theirs up and put Vettel on drys while it's raining super hard... his radio was dead so there was no communication. Thankfully Ferrari somehow fucked up as well and let Alonso run one lap too much with his dry tires, forcing him to nurture it home in second gear. In the end there was a lot more interesting racing to be seen besides the epic showdown Vettel vs. Alonso.

Now having said the general, let's get to your above post of denial.. It's evident you still throw all the credit to the Red Bull while over at Ferrari you throw it all to Alonso.. hmmm strange, I thought Massa was better than Alonso in the last couple of races... anyways, let's not compare points between team mates to get into this silly topic because we all know Ferrari is just a One driver team... as required by Alonso. Here's a factual breakdown of the season and each race to show you Alonso vs Vettel.

History in the making - Vettel’s route to the 2012 title 25 Nov 2012

Five race wins, five further podiums, six poles, 17 points finishes, two DNFs and six fastest laps. Those are the stats behind Sebastian Vettel’s historic 2012 campaign, a campaign that saw him become the youngest triple champion in F1 history, aged just 25. Here’s how he ultimately beat arch rival Fernando Alonso to the title...

Australia
Vettel: Q - 6; R - 2
Alonso: Q - 12; R - 5
Red Bull’s Melbourne qualifying speed is poor, but race form is better, though even Vettel is unable to challenge the race-winning McLaren of Jenson Button. Alonso starts the season in a Ferrari that’s a second off the pace.
Post-race standings: 1 Button 25; 2 Vettel 18; 3 Hamilton 15; 4 Webber 12; 5 Alonso 10

Malaysia
Vettel: Q - 6; R - 11
Alonso: Q - 9; R - 1
Vettel endures a frustrating Sepang weekend and any hope of points ends when his left-rear tyre is sliced on the front wing of Narain Karthikeyan’s HRT as he laps it. The infamous Malaysian weather, meanwhile, negates Ferrari’s car disadvantage and allows Alonso to shine.
Post-race standings: 1 Alonso 35; 2 Hamilton 30; 3 Button 25; 4 Webber 24; 5 Perez 22; 6 Vettel 18

China
Vettel: Q - 11; R - 5
Alonso: Q - 9; R - 9
As Mercedes and Nico Rosberg dominate, Vettel is running second in Shanghai as late as lap 52, despite a disappointing qualifying. But on a two-stop strategy, his tyres fall ‘over the cliff’, after which he goes rapidly backwards. With poor straight-line speed, Alonso spends much of his afternoon in traffic in a still uncompetitive F2012.
Post-race standings: 1 Hamilton 45; 2 Button 43; 3 Alonso 37; 4 Webber 36; 5 Vettel 28

Bahrain
Vettel: Q - 1; R - 1
Alonso: Q - 9; R - 7
Red Bull finally get their act together and Vettel runs away with the Sakhir weekend in his revitalised RB8, leapfrogging to the top of the standings. Alonso has to battle hard even to achieve seventh, as Ferrari again trail in the straight-line speed stakes.
Post-race standings: 1 Vettel 53; 2 Hamilton 49; 3 Webber 48; 4 Button 43; 5 Alonso 43

Spain
Vettel: Q - 8; R - 6
Alonso: Q - 3; R - 2
Vettel and Alonso leave Barcelona locked at the top of the table after very different races. The German fights back to sixth after an early nose change and a drive-through penalty for ignoring yellow flags, while a lightning start for the Spaniard isn’t quite enough to stop a maiden win for Williams’ Pastor Maldonado.
Post-race standings: 1 Vettel 61; 2 Alonso 61; 3 Hamilton 53; 4 Raikkonen 49; 5 Webber 48

Monaco
Vettel: Q - 10; R - 4
Alonso: Q - 6; R - 3
Red Bull’s patchy qualifying form continues and it takes some strategic magic to lift Vettel to fourth around the Monte Carlo streets, as team mate Mark Webber triumphs. Another measured but aggressive drive from Alonso gives him back the title lead.
Post-race standings: 1 Alonso 76; 2 Vettel 73; 3 Webber 73; 4 Hamilton 63; 5 Rosberg 59

Canada
Vettel: Q - 1; R - 4
Alonso: Q - 3; R - 5
Vettel and Alonso both gamble on race strategy - and lose. The former wanted to stop once, but tyre degradation forces another late pit visit and pole ultimately becomes fourth. The latter also goes for a one-stopper and similarly loses places on his starting position, as Lewis Hamilton takes the Montreal win for McLaren.
Post-race standings: 1 Hamilton 88; 2 Alonso 86; 3 Vettel 85; 4 Webber 79; 5 Rosberg 67

Europe
Vettel: Q - 1; R - DNF
Alonso: Q - 11; R - 1
Vettel is imperious in Valencia until an alternator failure robs him of certain victory. Alonso puts in a scintillating performance, grabbing every possible opportunity as his rivals falter, to secure a highly unexpected win in the ever-improving Ferrari.
Post-race standings: 1 Alonso 111; 2 Webber 91; 3 Hamilton 88; 4 Vettel 85; 5 Rosberg 75

Great Britain
Vettel: Q - 4; R - 3
Alonso: Q - 1; R - 2
Vettel damages his front wing early on in a fight with Felipe Massa, but a great strategic call of an early first pit stop sets him on the road to a solid podium finish. Alonso drives superbly on the prime tyres initially and looks a certain winner, but the Ferrari lacks pace on the options in its final stint and eventually he cannot contain Webber, who takes the Silverstone victory.
Post-race standings: 1 Alonso 129; 2 Webber 116; 3 Vettel 100; 4 Hamilton 92; 5 Raikkonen 83

Germany
Vettel: Q - 2; R - 5
Alonso: Q - 1; R - 1
Vettel can’t quite pass Alonso early on and then gets trapped behind Button before overtaking the McLaren with a lap to go. Unfortunately he does so by exceeding track limits and a post-race penalty drops him from second to fifth on his home ground. Alonso does a brilliant job to keep Vettel and then Button at bay, never once putting a wheel wrong under intense pressure throughout.
Post-race standings: 1 Alonso 154; 2 Webber 120; 3 Vettel 110; 4 Raikkonen 98; 5 Hamilton 92

Hungary
Vettel: Q - 3; R - 4
Alonso: Q - 6; R - 5
Neither Ferrari nor Red Bull - the latter with revised engine mapping after an FIA rule clarification - has the pace to match McLaren or Lotus in Budapest, but both Vettel and Alonso maximise their machinery’s potential.
Post-race standings: 1 Alonso 164; 2 Webber 124; 3 Vettel 122; 4 Hamilton 117; 5 Raikkonen 116

Belgium
Vettel: Q - 11; R - 2
Alonso: Q - 6; R - DNF
Alonso is an innocent victim in the first-corner carnage triggered by Lotus’s Romain Grosjean - carnage that helps Vettel recover from a dismal qualifying to finish on the podium and move ahead of Webber in the driver standings.
Post-race standings: 1 Alonso 164; 2 Vettel 140; 3 Webber 132; 4 Raikkonen 131; 5 Hamilton 117

Italy
Vettel: Q - 6; R - DNF
Alonso: Q - 10; R - 3
A disastrous race for Vettel, who had seemed set for a decent points haul. First he gets a drive-through penalty for putting Alonso off the road in Curva Grande; then he is halted permanently by more alternator issues. Alonso makes the most of other’s misfortune to go from tenth to third, as Hamilton wins in front of the tifosi. Vettel drops to fourth in title chase.
Post-race standings: 1 Alonso 179; 2 Hamilton 142; 3 Raikkonen 141; 4 Vettel 140; 5 Webber 132

Singapore
Vettel: Q - 3; R - 1
Alonso: Q - 5; R - 3
Once Hamilton retires, Vettel owns the night race. Alonso and Ferrari fail to even approach the pace of McLaren or Red Bull, but a mixture of luck and the Spaniard’s dogged determination land them another podium.
Post-race standings: 1 Alonso 194; 2 Vettel 165; 3 Raikkonen 149; 4 Hamilton 142; 5 Webber 132

Japan
Vettel: Q - 1; R - 1
Alonso: Q - 7; R - DNF
A dream weekend for Vettel, who wins as he pleases at Suzuka. As an added bonus for the reigning champion, Alonso’s is a nightmare - he is taken out at the first corner after contact with Kimi Raikkonen’s Lotus, slashing his championship lead to just four points over Vettel.
Post-race standings: 1 Alonso 194; 2 Vettel 190; 3 Raikkonen 157; 4 Hamilton 152; 5 Webber 134

Korea
Vettel: Q - 2; R - 1
Alonso: Q - 4; R - 3
Red Bull are untouchable at Yeongam. Vettel never looks back after getting the jump on pole-sitting team mate Webber off the line and regains the title lead for the first time since May. Alonso limits the damage in third, despite Felipe Massa in the second Ferrari seeming to have superior speed to his illustrious colleague.
Post-race standings: 1 Vettel 215; 2 Alonso 209; 3 Raikkonen 167; 4 Hamilton 153; 5 Webber 152

India
Vettel: Q - 1; R - 1
Alonso: Q - 5; R - 2
Vettel extends his lead with another imperious performance. Ferrari’s excellent straight-line speed helps Alonso to recover from fifth on the grid and pass an ailing Webber for second in the closing stages in New Delhi.
Post-race standings: 1 Vettel 240; 2 Alonso 227; 3 Raikkonen 173; 4 Webber 167; 5 Hamilton 165

Abu Dhabi
Vettel: Q - DSQ; R - 3
Alonso: Q - 7; R - 2
Vettel starts from the pit lane after Red Bull are unable to supply the required fuel sample after qualifying, but rides his luck with safety-car timings to stage a remarkable comeback. Alonso does his best to capitalise on his rival’s misfortune, but is unable to stop Lotus’s Kimi Raikkonen taking the first win of his F1 comeback. Result leaves just Vettel and Alonso in the title race.
Post-race standings: 1 Vettel 255; 2 Alonso 245

United States
Vettel: Q - 1; R - 2
Alonso: Q - 9; R - 3
Vettel is unbeatable in practice and qualifying around the stunning new Circuit of The Americas, but Hamilton edges him to the win. Another blinding salvage job sees Alonso on the podium after Ferrari deliberately land Massa with a gearbox penalty to lift the Spaniard up the grid after a dismal Saturday showing. Result sets up title showdown at final round in Brazil.
Post-race standings: 1 Vettel 273; 2 Alonso 260

Brazil
Vettel: Q - 4; R - 6
Alonso: Q - 8; R - 2
A chaotic wet-dry race starts in the worst possible fashion for Vettel as contact with Bruno Senna spins him to the back of the pack before he claws his way back through the field to a title-clinching sixth place, as Alonso does almost enough to deprive him with second.
Post-race standings: 1 Vettel 281; 2 Alonso 278

__________________________________________________________________________________________

We see that both teams had phases where they really struggled. RBR didn't get going till the 4th race and Ferrari had at times made hopeful progress only to find themselves just behind others. It was a very interesting season if you look at mid-season performance upgrades alone... lots of ups and downs and certainly the final batch of upgrades gave the edge to RBR. BUT, Vettel still had to deliver under this immense pressure, so it's also safe to say that he did well under these pressures! That's what makes this 3rd title so much of a confirmation. Vettel is the best driver on the grid

I think Sebastian sums it up very well considering this is just after the race:

Sebastian Vettel (6th)
"It's difficult to imagine what goes through my head now, I am so full of adrenalin. It was an incredible race, everything that could have happened to make it more difficult for us today, happened! I got turned around in Turn 4 for no reason and was heading the wrong way; so I had to get straight and was lucky no one hit me. The car was damaged and we lost speed in straights, even more as it dried up, but fortunately it started to rain again. All weekend people tried to push us in a certain direction and said if it rained it would be harder for us, but we have proven today that we like rain conditions as much as the dry. I am very, very happy. The most important thing throughout the season is that we kept pushing and remained ourselves. We just try to do our thing and stick to the route that we know and that's what made the difference. Some people try to play games, but we never get distracted, we keep going our way. Everyone at Milton Keynes and here at the circuit, they are always pushing so hard and we really stepped up our game in the second half of the season. I would like to thank everyone in the team and at Renault. There's no one in this team that feels more important than any one else, we all push together, alongside each other, it's one big force and I'm very proud of that. It's unreal what has happened. To win a third title, especially here where one of my heroes Ayrton Senna was from, it's difficult to put into words. I was crying in the car but my radio wasn't working, so I'm maybe happy for that! Tomorrow I can probably say more, but now I just don't have the right words."

This weekend best summed up:

Race - Button first, Alonso second, Vettel champion

Thanks everyone for this lively discussions, especially Easy for taking the time to keep us updated throughout the season

throt:

Wow, when Vetts car took the side shunt from Senna I thought there has to be some damage that will end Vetts race, just shows how well built there cars are. And then Vett  was in last place only to keep cool and charge through the pack on a slippery track, I think that in itself has silenced a lot of his critics.

I wish there was footage of this epic charge! Before we knew it he was right behind Alonso but after the safety car you could tell the RBR aero was compromised... straight line speed wasn't top so the Sauber and Massa were able to pull away. Must've been insane for the RBR team management, having to tell Vettel he's ok in his position and to keep it on the black stuff.. At many points Vettel was doing 1 sec faster times than anyone on the grid... simply amazing performance in these conditions, with a broken car and under the highest level of pressure.

Ferrari's statement after the race, says that Alonso deserved the title. Stefano Domenicali "believes Fernando Alonso was the driver who deserved the world championship the most".

Well, yesterday the title was his for the taking but he failed. The wet race neutralized any (exaggerated) RBR car advantage and Vettel started from last, drove a damaged car, fell back again during the race and only managed to climb to P6.

The only thing Alonso had to do was to use his reputed superiority as a driver, use the adverse conditions to his advantage, pass Button and win the race. He failed to do that as he failed to pass Petrov in 2010 when again he lost the title to Vettel. In both seasons it was all in his hands Draw your own conclusions.

--

"Form follows function"

Although I'm no SV-fan, he clearly deserves the (tripple) F1-title!

Against all ods he managed to keep his head down'n calm and he did, what he had to do, and I must admit, he did as a real champion

Let's put it straight, without the crash of NH with LH FA would only become 4th, so honestly said, there was not at anytime a true chance for him becoming worldchamp at that day... *without SV crashing out or having again an alternator failure

FA drove bravely but the real kings of the road were JB and NH who drove with slicks in the wet when all the others ("wimps" ) were playing it safe and putting the intermediates.

Without the SC both could have won easyly in front of all others.

It's a pitty that Lotus F1 was to tip the scale as FA dnf due to two incidents with KR and SG each in the first stages of a race, but SV as well had two dnf due to mechanical failures (alternator).

IMHO China and Bahrain were the crucial races for Ferrari (FA) as well as the poor performance of FM in 3/4 of the races as he was no help for FA in that respect.

I really wonder why FM did so well at the end of the season, it seemend as the new contract gave him back his confident in his car and his skills?!

However F1 2012 is over, let's wait & see what 2013 is going to be:

• will SV become 4th time champ?
• will FA finally strike back and follow SV as a tripple F1-champion?
• will LH make an end to NR F1 carreer in demolishing him in every weekendsession of the season?
• will LH make it possible to develop the Mercedes GP to a race winning car?
• will Coca Cola (Burn) Lotus F1 set an end to the domination of RBR?
• how will SP handle with the Macca, with JB and with lots of pressure as he has to deliver?

I'm glad season is over by now, and let's hope that the best races are still to come...

BTW: IMHO LH really deserved the title that year as he improved a lot compared to last year, he was the only one to keep up with SV and FA but in 2012 misfortune was every now and then co-passenger in his Macca!

and at last great to have KR back

I agree with the points Horner and Vettel made:

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12475/8219871/Christian-Horner-says-Sebastian-Vettel-s-success-is-making-rivals-feel-un...

http://web.orange.co.uk/article/sports/vettel_slams_dirty_tricks

--

"Form follows function"

The tittle went to were it is supposed to go. The winner of this season by the points.

I used to be a fan of SV because he showed real talent at a very young age , not so much fan of him anymore because of his personality and way he drives sometimes.

I never liked FA because of his arrogance , but he won my respect because of his driving skills and his brains.

Both could or ''deserved'' to be champions for different reasons . But the ' best' at these games got the tittle.

LH is the one who did not get what he deserved this season. He  ' should' of been fighting also for the title this last race if he would not have been as unlucky during the season.

--

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Bravo Vettel, great race and well deserved championship.

I was looking at the fastest laps of yesterday`s GP. Considering that Vettel had a damaged car  his fastest lap was quite remarkable (vs Webber/Massa, btw I am not a Vettel fan).

911 Club Coupe, 72' 911 Targa 2.4 S, 12' Audi S4 Avant

Amazing race... best of this season..

Brazil always seems to come up trumps - how many titles have been decided there?

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

Just bumping this thread back up top so it is more visible ... please continue any posts on the 2012 race on this thread. Thanks guys :)

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

Thanks Easy, I saw your 1 post on 2012 and yet I now have to read the other 9 new posts on 2011 

Edit:

Now, I have seen that you closed the other thread; good job. 

(much appreciated)

It's official, Ferrari are going to challenge Vettel's given championship. Just heard it on the radio.

throt

"I didn't do it"

What a shame!! If the FIA will grant the title to FA this would be really ridiculous!

IMHO SV deserves the title, he and RBR did what they had to do in order to secure the championship, I hope FA and Ferrari will not appeal and accept the facts that they were just 2nd best (again) as in 2010...

SV is a great champion no matther if he had the best car (again), he outperformed his teammate by far and FA was barely able to keep up with his fellow dwarf (FM) in the last stages of the 2012 championship, maybe pressure was to high for him?!

Let's close the F1 2012 "book" and get it on...

Just read on italian newsites that Ferrari sent a letter to FIA for a clarification and received back a confirmation from FIA that the overtake was in line with the rules. Ferrari has until tomorrow to challenge the response.

911 Club Coupe, 72' 911 Targa 2.4 S, 12' Audi S4 Avant

The BBC article clarifies some things.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20541589

The case is convoluted and the evidence is conflicting as the flags, track lights and in-car warning lights contradicted each other at some stages. So, each one picks what suits his purpose.

I am sure FIA will not change the result of this long championship on the basis of a vague evidence motivated by a sense of frustration on behalf of SF due their long title drought.

BTW I was impressed by Alonso's statement:  "I don't believe in miracles. I make my miracles out of the correct rules."  I would never have imagined that a F1 driver had so much intellectual depth as to come up with such a philosophical quote.I am amazed!

--

"Form follows function"

Yes, as of 9 am today Ferrari are going to challenge tomorrow..

Where is the complexity, the overtake while the SC was active is either illegal or not..When I was watching the box I did  not spot SV overtake the STR when the safety car was out and the F1 Sky team surely did not mention it either. They spoke about the Kobayashi pass, unless I was not paying fall attention.

throt

"I didn't do it"

"No case"  to answer says FIA.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-ferrari-mull-protest-vettels-title-win-015939855.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/nov/29/fia-sebastian-vettel-controversial-move

--

"Form follows function"