Crown

dreamcar:

KresoF1:
Did you drove 991S equipped with SPASM/PDCC, PDK and Sport Chrono Plus?

We drove two 991's at Silverstone, albeit very briefly, a 991 (non S) PDK that had SPASM and sport chrono, and a 991S PDK that had sport chrono but standard PASM. 

I needed a longer drive, I asked for a 991 when we took our 997 in for it's 4 year service, but having broken off diplomatic relations with the sales department of our local OPC after their handling of our well documented Cayman debacle they wouldn't lend me one, ended up with the service manager's Audi A3 diesel! Only went back there as their service department have always been excellent and their quote for the 4 year major service was several hundred pounds less expensive than either of the other local Porsche dealers I approached. 

I've found a very low mileage Boxster 981S at OPC Bristol everything on it including PDK, 20" wheels, TPMS, PASM, sport chrono, Porsche torque vectoring, electric 14 way memory sports seats Bose and more, half jokingly suggested to SWMBO this morning we px our 997 for it and she amazed me by saying she actually now prefers the 997 to a Boxster, wouldn't want to go back to one even the new one, she finds the 997 more comfortable and less claustrophobic. Also much easier to pack when touring than a Boxster.

I agree with your wife However, you seem to be more comfortable with the mid-engined cars than with the 911. Perhaps, you haven't done sufficient mileage to get well acquainted yet?

For me the 991 is without doubt  the better and faster car in all respects compared to the 997.2 and far better than the 997.1. The only car that would get me out of a Carrera S is the forthcoming Turbo S (unlikely in economic climate at the present and in the foreseeable future) and beyond that only the F12 Berlinetta (when I win the lottery).

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"Form follows function"

reginos:

dreamcar:

KresoF1:
Did you drove 991S equipped with SPASM/PDCC, PDK and Sport Chrono Plus?

We drove two 991's at Silverstone, albeit very briefly, a 991 (non S) PDK that had SPASM and sport chrono, and a 991S PDK that had sport chrono but standard PASM. 

I needed a longer drive, I asked for a 991 when we took our 997 in for it's 4 year service, but having broken off diplomatic relations with the sales department of our local OPC after their handling of our well documented Cayman debacle they wouldn't lend me one, ended up with the service manager's Audi A3 diesel! Only went back there as their service department have always been excellent and their quote for the 4 year major service was several hundred pounds less expensive than either of the other local Porsche dealers I approached. 

I've found a very low mileage Boxster 981S at OPC Bristol everything on it including PDK, 20" wheels, TPMS, PASM, sport chrono, Porsche torque vectoring, electric 14 way memory sports seats Bose and more, half jokingly suggested to SWMBO this morning we px our 997 for it and she amazed me by saying she actually now prefers the 997 to a Boxster, wouldn't want to go back to one even the new one, she finds the 997 more comfortable and less claustrophobic. Also much easier to pack when touring than a Boxster.

I agree with your wife However, you seem to be more comfortable with the mid-engined cars than with the 911. Perhaps, you haven't done sufficient mileage to get well acquainted yet?

For me the 991 is without doubt  the better and faster car in all respects compared to the 997.2 and far better than the 997.1. The only car that would get me out of a Carrera S is the forthcoming Turbo S (unlikely in economic climate at the present and in the foreseeable future) and beyond that only the F12 Berlinetta (when I win the lottery).

 

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"Form follows function"

Actually I'm rapidly coming round to the rear engined way of doing things, our 997/2 is a magnificent car, the only gizmo I miss on it is TPMS. What made our Boxster S so special was we had it new, specced it exactly as we wanted it, the magic of collecting the car from Stuttgart ( yes I know it was made in Finland) and the many really enjoyable UK continental touring holidays we had with it. I'm certain if we'd done the same again but with a new 911, rather than buy a third hand car, it would feel even more special! 

We'd love to be able to justify the near £100k a new 911S would cost ( and the likely £25k loss the very minute we drove it away ) to repeat that special experience, but sadly we just cannot. 

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Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

You are very correct about the joy of a new Porsche specced to your exact preference. Factory delivery is a unique experience. I remember I took delivery of a BMW from the factory in Munich, years ago and it's still one of my highlights. I can imagine how it would have felt if it was a Porsche in Stuttgart.

OTOH think about how many millions in the UK and elsewhere would have loved to be in your current  position, even without TPMS. 

True the 911 is getting expensive compared to the 997.1 which was a bargain and toy the 997.2 that was good value. Porsche are getting very confident it seems to price the 911 ever so high, as their global sales keep rising due to the demand for their cash cows.

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"Form follows function"

reginos:

OTOH think about how many millions in the UK and elsewhere would have loved to be in your current  position, even without TPMS.

Very true and yes, most of us here are in a privileged position. 

Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

reginos:

True the 911 is getting expensive compared to the 997.1 which was a bargain and toy the 997.2 that was good value. Porsche are getting very confident it seems to price the 911 ever so high, as their global sales keep rising  due to the demand for their cash cows.

Judging by the rumoured lack of sales with the new 991, certainly here in the UK, and the frightening depreciation suffered by those who do buy one, that arrogant pricing may well be misplaced. 

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Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

I am not sure Porsche is "arrogantly" pricing its cars.  Seems to me that the improvements added to each generation (991 vs. 997, for example) simply cost more because better performance and materials cost more.  My guess is that most luxury sports cars--Ferrari, Lambo, BMW and others--are charging more as well.  

Porsche are being greedy, that's the button line !! Remember, they are no more an exclusive brand but a mass produced cr manufacturer. In the UK, the sales are very low, no discounts are offered on brand new cars and the 991 is dropping like a stone in value.....Porsche GB, greedy lot.......I'm enjoying this . 20k already wiped off the value of an 8 month old 991 !!!!

Italo:

 no discounts are offered on brand new cars 

 

plenty of discounts on sports cars, you just have to ask ..

Italo:

Porsche are being greedy, that's the button line !! Remember, they are no more an exclusive brand but a mass produced cr manufacturer. In the UK, the sales are very low, no discounts are offered on brand new cars and the 991 is dropping like a stone in value.....Porsche GB, greedy lot.......I'm enjoying this . 20k already wiped off the value of an 8 month old 991 !!!!

 

All the cars on the market, except really collectionable examples or race cars depreciate fast. All todays ferraris, astons, mercs, audis, lambos and even veyron depreciate 15% after you take it out of dealer.

sportcars-history.com

Wonderbar:

I am not sure Porsche is "arrogantly" pricing its cars.  Seems to me that the improvements added to each generation (991 vs. 997, for example) simply cost more because better performance and materials cost more.

If R&D for better performance and material was a direct function for cost, then why the big difference in price between the 98x and 99x?  Same interior, same electronics, same engine, same wheels, same paint, etc. etc. etc. Conclusion: The price has got less with R&D and material to do, but more with the product niche. 

Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.

Even Porsche's buying options plans are less attractive than say BMW. You can have a brand new BMW M5 on 0% via there 50 / 50 purchase scheme, pay 50% up front and the the balance in 2 year,, and get a discount on that sticker price too. Porsche clearly do not want to get involved in a discount avalanche, they are very stubborn by there product. However, they must appreciate the fact that they are now a mass producer, which has been said above already..

throt

"I didn't do it"

Let's face it BMW is no Porsche in spite of the latter's model and production expansion. I wouldn't expect to pay the same for a BMW and a Porsche even of the same segment.

Porsche produce around 120.000 units (they wish to get to a max of 200.000 in due time) compared to BMW's 1.3 million and Audi's 1 million. Hardly, a mass producer, I think.

BTW, Mercedes produce 1.4 million cars and yet they can sell some of their models (e.g. AMG, S, CL) at very high prices.

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"Form follows function"

There do seem to be more Porsches about these days than when I first purchased one 35 years ago!

Maybe that has something to do with the fact that an incredible two thirds of all Porsche vehicles ever built are still on the road today...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXv4P5OjHcw

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

It's a shame that this is going to end soon. The increasing number of cars produced and the mix (Cayenne) will force the number down....

1987 911 Carrera 3.2 - 2012 Cayenne Diesel - 2010 Abarth 500 - 1995 BMW318ti

I can see already some early Cayennes that are very neglected, due to the high maintenance costs and the fact that they are not bought (solely) by enthusiasts.

Also most early Boxsters are in a mess.

"Form follows function"

reginos:

I can see already some early Cayennes that are very neglected, due to the high maintenance costs and the fact that they are not bought (solely) by enthusiasts.

Also most early Boxsters are in a mess.

Completely agree on your comment Reginos. The air-cooled and to a much lesser extent the recent sport models will survive the future the rest will be recycled I am afraid. Only because of the massive electronics that those cars have will make the reparations difficult and non economically sustainable in a 10-15 years life span.

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911 Club Coupe, 72' 911 Targa 2.4 S, 12' Audi S4 Avant

In the mid 90's I tried to replace my 3.2 Carrera with a used 964 C2 and even then, the majority for sale were in a poor state.  There was a large number of very neglected old 911s around at that time, which was probably a result of the non enthusiasts buying them and then flogging them when the recession bit .  So I got a new Elise instead, which was fantastic.

Gen II Cayman S

Each day I visit this thread I hope I would see more info about the Cayman. But no, off-topic discussion never ends... Please guys.

dxpetrov:

Each day I visit this thread I hope I would see more info about the Cayman. But no, off-topic discussion never ends... Please guys.

+1

SportCarGroup:

dxpetrov:

Each day I visit this thread I hope I would see more info about the Cayman. But no, off-topic discussion never ends... Please guys.

+1

OK 981 Boxster S with maybe an additional 10 bhp. Slight tweaks to the interior and maybe the front lights and suspension and a big price hike. Don't expect much more. 

Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

SportCarGroup:

dxpetrov:

Each day I visit this thread I hope I would see more info about the Cayman. But no, off-topic discussion never ends... Please guys.

+1

+1 

More info snapped up from elsewhere. The photos were taken in a cargo terminal in Atlanta as the cars are heading for the LA Auto Show and were originally posted on Instagram (this info is all over the net now). The fog lights are round, the car on the photos has camouflage to make them look horizontal. S model to get 325 HP.

Happier?

Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.

reginos:

I can see already some early Cayennes that are very neglected, due to the high maintenance costs and the fact that they are not bought (solely) by enthusiasts.

Also most early Boxsters are in a mess.

This has always been true of the low end Porsche models; e.g., 914, 944 and so on. 

dreamcar:

SportCarGroup:

dxpetrov:

Each day I visit this thread I hope I would see more info about the Cayman. But no, off-topic discussion never ends... Please guys.

+1

OK 981 Boxster S with maybe an additional 10 bhp. Slight tweaks to the interior and maybe the front lights and suspension and a big price hike. Don't expect much more. 

Not so sure about the big price hike. It seems to me that the gap between Boxster and Cayman pricing has been narrowing in the last few years.

KMM:

Not so sure about the big price hike. It seems to me that the gap between Boxster and Cayman pricing has been narrowing in the last few years.

 

The price differential between Boxster and Cayman needs to narrow,  but I was meaning price hike between 987/2 Cayman and 981 Cayman. 

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Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

Come on Porsche, release the damn photos already!

I don't believe the ''fog-lights''would be round. First of all, those are not fog-lights but DRLs, and I've never seen circular DRLs.

dxpetrov:

I don't believe the ''fog-lights''would be round. First of all, those are not fog-lights but DRLs, and I've never seen circular DRLs.

 987.2 Cayman has round LED DRLs ..

dxpetrov:

I don't believe the ''fog-lights''would be round. First of all, those are not fog-lights but DRLs, and I've never seen circular DRLs.

Sorry, meant DRL. There is a spy pic floating around where you can see the round light behind rough plastic camo. I'll try to find it. This in conjunction with the Atlanta photos where the poster claimed the front is not real does sound like we will see round lights. Time will tell Not that I care much if the DRL are round or horizontal, but I am happy to bet they will not look like the horizontal 981 Boxster lights

Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.

i don't see how better the round DRLs would be? Where is the visual impact? Imagine seeing just two ''dots'' in the night... Would be quite strange if they (have) decide(d) to go that way.

Gladstone:

The extra length over the previous model really adds a much sleaker appearance. Perhaps more noticable on the fixed roof model than the boxster.

I am mostly glad to see the rear windows have not been oversized as suggested by some of the artist's renderings.

Look again!  The rear window is being masked by extra silver paint or tape.  First it is much to square at the corners and you can see the window frame 3inches from the glass.  Just saying, don't go by that picture unless you look closely.