Crown

Just to add that my P source told me that 961 price wise will be much more expensive then 991 range. Entery level will be at about 220K € in Germany.

KresoF1:

Just to add that my P source told me that 961 price wise will be much more expensive then 991 range. Entery level will be at about 220K € in Germany.

But even at this price level it will compete with a potential 991 GT2 (RS).

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Rossi:

KresoF1:

Just to add that my P source told me that 961 price wise will be much more expensive then 991 range. Entery level will be at about 220K € in Germany.

But even at this price level it will compete with a potential 991 GT2 (RS).

GT2RS is a very low production model and should cater to a different buyer

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello

Assuming the rumor is true, I hope they get the styling right for the 961.  I test drove the 12C at a dealer in Greenwich CT which happens to be right next door to a Ferrari dealership.  As interesting (amazing in an interesting way) as the 12C is to drive, it does not hold a candle to the sex appeal of the 458

Whilst Audi is part of the group,a p-car based on the next R8-Gallardo base is almost preditable imho.

And the R8 in V8 version being a great drivers car, the p-derivate can only be more exciting.

965 3.3turbo/  993 targa / 996 cab /997S cab

Audi R8  //  Audi A5 S-line 3.0tdi Quattro/ RR 4.4i

beltar:

Whilst Audi is part of the group,a p-car based on the next R8-Gallardo base is almost preditable imho.

And the R8 in V8 version being a great drivers car, the p-derivate can only be more exciting.

Have read the rumors that next gen r8 will have audi platform, not porsche one. Audi already works on r8 and will not have an ability to rebuild the whole car to adapt porsche platform. Which platform lambo will use I dont know...

sportcars-history.com

Conny997:
The 961 is a nice idea - and no, it won't affect the sales figures of the 911.
Why? It turns more in the direction of a "real" sport car, almost with attitudes of a race car.

The fact is the 911 is more and more a car for the older generation 50+ (like me :-) ).

Besides of a 911 GT2 RS the normal 911 even the Turbo S are great daily drivers and the more they turn in this direction the more the will attract older buyer with the necessary money. If you really want a car with sport car image you may consider the 961 or alike. Porsche has detected a real niche as always
:-)

The niche was always there but Porsche lacked the courage to "occupy" it. I just hope they don't make the mistake to put this new mid engined super sports car in a 300k EUR price range. This could kill this model.

In my opinion, pricing should start somewhere around 180-190k EUR, with some options this car would hit 230-250k at max. This would be OK. I'm afraid however that Porsche is going to be more "greedy" .

For me, the next 911 Turbo is the more interesting product. Unless of course Porsche messes it up. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

bhnyc:

Assuming the rumor is true, I hope they get the styling right for the 961.  I test drove the 12C at a dealer in Greenwich CT which happens to be right next door to a Ferrari dealership.  As interesting (amazing in an interesting way) as the 12C is to drive, it does not hold a candle to the sex appeal of the 458

Sex appeal? Didn't most reviewers agree that the 458 is better (handling) and more fun to drive? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Porsche 961 Coupe...

Porsche 961 Coupe -- AutoBild link

Porsche to Enter the Fray With Ferrari and McLaren Fighter...

(7 November 2012)

Porsche to Enter the Fray With Ferrari and McLaren Fighter -- 9Magazine Link

Boxster Coupe GTS:

Porsche 961 Coupe...

Porsche 961 Coupe -- AutoBild link

 

My problema with this render is that the windshield is too steep. In the 911 form factor the windshield has a more upright angle because of the layout of the car and that sets it apart from any other car on the road. But a mid engined v8 ( v6? ) the shape needs to be lower and wider, so I don't see any use for the upright windshield. If anything it could damage the aero of the car and have a negative impact on performance.

Porsche 960 Coupe preview by Evo magazine...

Rossi:

KresoF1:

Just to add that my P source told me that 961 price wise will be much more expensive then 991 range. Entery level will be at about 220K € in Germany.

But even at this price level it will compete with a potential 991 GT2 (RS).

That's why I also ask myself how 961 and 991 (GT models) might be positioned on the market. The only logical step would be to discontinue the GT2 models 

RC:

Conny997:
The 961 is a nice idea - and no, it won't affect the sales figures of the 911.
Why? It turns more in the direction of a "real" sport car, almost with attitudes of a race car.

The fact is the 911 is more and more a car for the older generation 50+ (like me :-) ).

Besides of a 911 GT2 RS the normal 911 even the Turbo S are great daily drivers and the more they turn in this direction the more the will attract older buyer with the necessary money. If you really want a car with sport car image you may consider the 961 or alike. Porsche has detected a real niche as always
:-)

The niche was always there but Porsche lacked the courage to "occupy" it. I just hope they don't make the mistake to put this new mid engined super sports car in a 300k EUR price range. This could kill this model.

In my opinion, pricing should start somewhere around 180-190k EUR, with some options this car would hit 230-250k at max. This would be OK. I'm afraid however that Porsche is going to be more "greedy" .

For me, the next 911 Turbo is the more interesting product. Unless of course Porsche messes it up. 

 

Agreed, and I would even prefer the new GT2 versions to a "design oriented" mid-engine car which will probably be not any faster than a 991 GT2TS could be. People who like "special" designs are supposed to order Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren not Porsches 

MKSGR:

RC:

Conny997:
The 961 is a nice idea - and no, it won't affect the sales figures of the 911.
Why? It turns more in the direction of a "real" sport car, almost with attitudes of a race car.

The fact is the 911 is more and more a car for the older generation 50+ (like me :-) ).

Besides of a 911 GT2 RS the normal 911 even the Turbo S are great daily drivers and the more they turn in this direction the more the will attract older buyer with the necessary money. If you really want a car with sport car image you may consider the 961 or alike. Porsche has detected a real niche as always
:-)

The niche was always there but Porsche lacked the courage to "occupy" it. I just hope they don't make the mistake to put this new mid engined super sports car in a 300k EUR price range. This could kill this model.

In my opinion, pricing should start somewhere around 180-190k EUR, with some options this car would hit 230-250k at max. This would be OK. I'm afraid however that Porsche is going to be more "greedy" .

For me, the next 911 Turbo is the more interesting product. Unless of course Porsche messes it up. 

 

Agreed, and I would even prefer the new GT2 versions to a "design oriented" mid-engine car which will probably be not any faster than a 991 GT2TS could be. People who like "special" designs are supposed to order Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren not Porsches 

......but a mid-engined car provides Porsche with a competitive mid-engined platform for its motorsport GT product. A GT2 does not.

Spyderidol:

MKSGR:

RC:

Conny997:
The 961 is a nice idea - and no, it won't affect the sales figures of the 911.
Why? It turns more in the direction of a "real" sport car, almost with attitudes of a race car.

The fact is the 911 is more and more a car for the older generation 50+ (like me :-) ).

Besides of a 911 GT2 RS the normal 911 even the Turbo S are great daily drivers and the more they turn in this direction the more the will attract older buyer with the necessary money. If you really want a car with sport car image you may consider the 961 or alike. Porsche has detected a real niche as always
:-)

The niche was always there but Porsche lacked the courage to "occupy" it. I just hope they don't make the mistake to put this new mid engined super sports car in a 300k EUR price range. This could kill this model.

In my opinion, pricing should start somewhere around 180-190k EUR, with some options this car would hit 230-250k at max. This would be OK. I'm afraid however that Porsche is going to be more "greedy" .

For me, the next 911 Turbo is the more interesting product. Unless of course Porsche messes it up. 

 

Agreed, and I would even prefer the new GT2 versions to a "design oriented" mid-engine car which will probably be not any faster than a 991 GT2TS could be. People who like "special" designs are supposed to order Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren not Porsches 

......but a mid-engined car provides Porsche with a competitive mid-engined platform for its motorsport GT product. A GT2 does not.

You know, "motor sport = spending money" - "road cars = earning money"... Guess what Porsche is more interested in 

MKSGR:

Spyderidol:

MKSGR:

RC:

Conny997:
The 961 is a nice idea - and no, it won't affect the sales figures of the 911.
Why? It turns more in the direction of a "real" sport car, almost with attitudes of a race car.

The fact is the 911 is more and more a car for the older generation 50+ (like me :-) ).

Besides of a 911 GT2 RS the normal 911 even the Turbo S are great daily drivers and the more they turn in this direction the more the will attract older buyer with the necessary money. If you really want a car with sport car image you may consider the 961 or alike. Porsche has detected a real niche as always
:-)

The niche was always there but Porsche lacked the courage to "occupy" it. I just hope they don't make the mistake to put this new mid engined super sports car in a 300k EUR price range. This could kill this model.

In my opinion, pricing should start somewhere around 180-190k EUR, with some options this car would hit 230-250k at max. This would be OK. I'm afraid however that Porsche is going to be more "greedy" .

For me, the next 911 Turbo is the more interesting product. Unless of course Porsche messes it up. 

 

Agreed, and I would even prefer the new GT2 versions to a "design oriented" mid-engine car which will probably be not any faster than a 991 GT2TS could be. People who like "special" designs are supposed to order Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren not Porsches 

......but a mid-engined car provides Porsche with a competitive mid-engined platform for its motorsport GT product. A GT2 does not.

You know, "motor sport = spending money" - "road cars = earning money"... Guess what Porsche is more interested in 

Porsche Motorsport is the only motorsport division (maybe scuderia ferrari too) that brings money, big money.

sportcars-history.com

MKSGR:

Rossi:

KresoF1:

Just to add that my P source told me that 961 price wise will be much more expensive then 991 range. Entery level will be at about 220K € in Germany.

But even at this price level it will compete with a potential 991 GT2 (RS).

That's why I also ask myself how 961 and 991 (GT models) might be positioned on the market. The only logical step would be to discontinue the GT2 models 

Thats exactly what I was reffering tro earlier in the thread.

MKSGR:

Agreed, and I would even prefer the new GT2 versions to a "design oriented" mid-engine car which will probably be not any faster than a 991 GT2TS could be. People who like "special" designs are supposed to order Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren not Porsches 

Carlos from Spain:

MKSGR:

Rossi:

KresoF1:

Just to add that my P source told me that 961 price wise will be much more expensive then 991 range. Entery level will be at about 220K € in Germany.

But even at this price level it will compete with a potential 991 GT2 (RS).

That's why I also ask myself how 961 and 991 (GT models) might be positioned on the market. The only logical step would be to discontinue the GT2 models 

Thats exactly what I was reffering tro earlier in the thread.

 

 

MKSGR:

Agreed, and I would even prefer the new GT2 versions to a "design oriented" mid-engine car which will probably be not any faster than a 991 GT2TS could be. People who like "special" designs are supposed to order Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren not Porsches 

 

x2

If 918 will run nurburgring less than 7-55, so I easily see the niche of 961)

Also, compared to gt2, 961 can be more luxurous inside than pure racing car as gt2 is. 

sportcars-history.com

MKSGR:

Spyderidol:

MKSGR:

RC:

Conny997:
The 961 is a nice idea - and no, it won't affect the sales figures of the 911.
Why? It turns more in the direction of a "real" sport car, almost with attitudes of a race car.

The fact is the 911 is more and more a car for the older generation 50+ (like me :-) ).

Besides of a 911 GT2 RS the normal 911 even the Turbo S are great daily drivers and the more they turn in this direction the more the will attract older buyer with the necessary money. If you really want a car with sport car image you may consider the 961 or alike. Porsche has detected a real niche as always
:-)

The niche was always there but Porsche lacked the courage to "occupy" it. I just hope they don't make the mistake to put this new mid engined super sports car in a 300k EUR price range. This could kill this model.

In my opinion, pricing should start somewhere around 180-190k EUR, with some options this car would hit 230-250k at max. This would be OK. I'm afraid however that Porsche is going to be more "greedy" .

For me, the next 911 Turbo is the more interesting product. Unless of course Porsche messes it up. 

 

Agreed, and I would even prefer the new GT2 versions to a "design oriented" mid-engine car which will probably be not any faster than a 991 GT2TS could be. People who like "special" designs are supposed to order Ferrari, Lamborghini or McLaren not Porsches 

......but a mid-engined car provides Porsche with a competitive mid-engined platform for its motorsport GT product. A GT2 does not.

You know, "motor sport = spending money" - "road cars = earning money"... Guess what Porsche is more interested in 

No- Porsche Motorsport is a business. A very successful business. The GT product t brings in a lot of money into the company. Spare parts is also a money making machine.

It is important not to confuse the GT Motorsport products with for instance, the LMP1 project. 

Spyderidol:

 

No- Porsche Motorsport is a business. A very successful business. The GT product t brings in a lot of money into the company. Spare parts is also a money making machine.

It is important not to confuse the GT Motorsport products with for instance, the LMP1 project. 

 

 

So you think they can increase profitability by replacing the existing GT business by a new category?

why would they discontinue the GT models? that would be a huge blow to the companies heritage, not to mention income. Porsche in not about to abandon a tried and true business model just to try their hand at a new segment. 

Besides even if the numbers between the cars are too similar its a completely different experience between driving mid engined and driving rear engined, so I see no issue with them having both offerings in the market. Heck that would make Porsche the only brand with both options on the table, and we all know how much companies like to say "We are now the only company in the world that offer -insert product here- "

I just hope they don't bother with any of the Grand Touring features as Porsche can certainly rely on different models to do this and focus more on styling and making this a true performer.  I really want to buy a Porsche mid-ship sports car at or below $300k.

Enmanuel:

why would they discontinue the GT models? that would be a huge blow to the companies heritage, not to mention income. Porsche in not about to abandon a tried and true business model just to try their hand at a new segment. 

Besides even if the numbers between the cars are too similar its a completely different experience between driving mid engined and driving rear engined, so I see no issue with them having both offerings in the market. Heck that would make Porsche the only brand with both options on the table, and we all know how much companies like to say "We are now the only company in the world that offer -insert product here- "

Agreed, but then: can you imagine how a GT2 or GT2RS can be positioned next to a new 961  I just think these cars are too close in terms of performance and pricing. Just inventing a new "package" with similar objective qualities might be too dangerous for them...

Markus, there is a solution for Porsche regarding market position for say it 991 GT2 and 961.

Enetry price of 961 at 250K € in Germany. That means nicelly optioned 961 will cost close to 300K €. Just... Who would buy it? Even if they offer Aventador acceleration level for "just" 250K €...

MKSGR:

Enmanuel:

why would they discontinue the GT models? that would be a huge blow to the companies heritage, not to mention income. Porsche in not about to abandon a tried and true business model just to try their hand at a new segment. 

Besides even if the numbers between the cars are too similar its a completely different experience between driving mid engined and driving rear engined, so I see no issue with them having both offerings in the market. Heck that would make Porsche the only brand with both options on the table, and we all know how much companies like to say "We are now the only company in the world that offer -insert product here- "

Agreed, but then: can you imagine how a GT2 or GT2RS can be positioned next to a new 961  I just think these cars are too close in terms of performance and pricing. Just inventing a new "package" with similar objective qualities might be too dangerous for them...

No harder for them to solve than how they positioned the 981 and 991 

The 911 GT models are track-oriented anyway and I don't think the 961 will be track-oriented as such (at least not the first model). I would be surprised if it comes with nomex racing shells, roll cage and cup tires. I would more expect it to be a sporty and (somewhat) luxurious mid-engined GT car to target that market segment.

Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.

MKSGR:

Spyderidol:

 

No- Porsche Motorsport is a business. A very successful business. The GT product t brings in a lot of money into the company. Spare parts is also a money making machine.

It is important not to confuse the GT Motorsport products with for instance, the LMP1 project. 

 

 

So you think they can increase profitability by replacing the existing GT business by a new category?

No - The LMP1 project is essentially a technological showcase and marketing exercise. The cars will be raced by Porsche but the idea is to show what petrol/hybrid can do.

The GT class is designed to sell cars to Motorsport customers. Porsche will be participating in both classes.

KresoF1:

Markus, there is a solution for Porsche regarding market position for say it 991 GT2 and 961.

Enetry price of 961 at 250K € in Germany. That means nicelly optioned 961 will cost close to 300K €. Just... Who would buy it? Even if they offer Aventador acceleration level for "just" 250K €...

Kreso, but such pricing that would still be like GT2 or GT2RS territory. I really wonder how they could differentiate the product without discontinuing the GT2/GT2RS line 

bluelines:

MKSGR:

Enmanuel:

why would they discontinue the GT models? that would be a huge blow to the companies heritage, not to mention income. Porsche in not about to abandon a tried and true business model just to try their hand at a new segment. 

Besides even if the numbers between the cars are too similar its a completely different experience between driving mid engined and driving rear engined, so I see no issue with them having both offerings in the market. Heck that would make Porsche the only brand with both options on the table, and we all know how much companies like to say "We are now the only company in the world that offer -insert product here- "

Agreed, but then: can you imagine how a GT2 or GT2RS can be positioned next to a new 961  I just think these cars are too close in terms of performance and pricing. Just inventing a new "package" with similar objective qualities might be too dangerous for them...

No harder for them to solve than how they positioned the 981 and 991 

The 911 GT models are track-oriented anyway and I don't think the 961 will be track-oriented as such (at least not the first model). I would be surprised if it comes with nomex racing shells, roll cage and cup tires. I would more expect it to be a sporty and (somewhat) luxurious mid-engined GT car to target that market segment.

You think the 961 would be more Grand Tourism style then?

Spyderidol:

MKSGR:

Spyderidol:

 

No- Porsche Motorsport is a business. A very successful business. The GT product t brings in a lot of money into the company. Spare parts is also a money making machine.

It is important not to confuse the GT Motorsport products with for instance, the LMP1 project. 

 

 

So you think they can increase profitability by replacing the existing GT business by a new category?

No - The LMP1 project is essentially a technological showcase and marketing exercise. The cars will be raced by Porsche but the idea is to show what petrol/hybrid can do.

The GT class is designed to sell cars to Motorsport customers. Porsche will be participating in both classes.

That's what I meant: the mid-engine segment will not create profits  Somehow new for Porsche...