Crown

You never will, Markus. My former Rally mentor Holzer ran a JET station...well... 

For me, only Aral, BP, Esso or Shell.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

pride355:

RC:

To be honest, without kids, I would not drive a Panamera. The next generation 991 Turbo is very tempting... 

Looking at the current fuel prices though, I paid 1.94 EUR for a liter of Shell VPower at my local fuel station last Sunday, we are considering a Diesel as our family daily driver. Like a SQ5, Cayenne Diesel or BMW X3 35d. The Macan unfortunately will come too late to be taken in consideration. 

Finally you see the light Christian 

Nope, my wife did. It will be her family car. 

Even if I have to pay 5 EUR per liter, I will always drive hp monsters. Always.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Diesel??? Thin end of the wedge, mate

HeavyMetalThunder:

Diesel??? Thin end of the wedge, mate

My wife wants a car with low fuel consumption since she pays for the fuel herself (company). Her current X5M eats up 19-20 l / 100 km and she really doesn't drive fast. In the city, this car eats fuel like nothing.

A Cayenne Diesel consumes around 9 l / 100 km under the same circumstances, the Audi SQ5 or BMW X3 35d around 10 liters of Diesel. Huge difference vs. the X5M.

This means that instead of paying 400 EUR per month for fuel, she would pay 200 or even slightly less. Definitely worth it.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I am surprised that your X5M consumes that much. My X5M now has almost 50,000 km on the odo and it even consumes significantly less than in the first 2 years.



My average consumption is about 17.4 liters 100/km even though I almost go exclusively with air conditioning. Initially I had an average fuel consumption of 18.6 liters. I also have a high percentage of city driving because I use it for the daily commute to the office.



I am absolutely amazed at how troublefree  the X5M is.



My colleague, who previously had a X5M, is thus driven 145,000 km without any problems and has now bought a M X50D. Its consumption: 14 liters of diesel. Is this really worth it to switch to a diesel? 

We have tried 100 and 102 octane fuel on Panamera. No problems appeared!!!!! But no positive impact also, even worse acceleration figures. So ifmyounare going to use 100-102-104 octane fuel you need to optimise ecu unit....

artur777:

We have tried 100 and 102 octane fuel on Panamera. No problems appeared!!!!! But no positive impact also, even worse acceleration figures. So ifmyounare going to use 100-102-104 octane fuel you need to optimise ecu unit....

 

The benefit is only evident on turbo charged engines and/or engines with adapted ECU or ECU units which can adapt to much higher octane fuel (not very common but for example in tuned cars).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Conny997:

I am surprised that your X5M consumes that much. My X5M now has almost 50,000 km on the odo and it even consumes significantly less than in the first 2 years.
My average consumption is about 17.4 liters 100/km even though I almost go exclusively with air conditioning. Initially I had an average fuel consumption of 18.6 liters. I also have a high percentage of city driving because I use it for the daily commute to the office.

My wife drives the X5M mainly in the city and yes, fuel consumption is around 19-20 l / 100 km. She drives pretty slow (I would call that "normal" ), so maybe the city driving is the problem.

I can confirm that, the X5M is absolutely trouble-free, more than 20k km now.  Very reliable car.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I would stick my neck out here and say, that in the city, a hybrid makes more sense than diesel

Diesel is better when one is doing long highway trips, where one settles into a cruise, and the engine is working optimally. In the city, you are just asking for DPF troubles from start stop journeys, especially in traffic

But worst of all, you will hear the diesel rev, and sorry to say, but I personally could not live with that sound. it gets on my nerves everytime I have tried diesels. Only exception being the TDV8s by Land Rover, which sound rather muscle carish

With a hybrid, battery can work through traffic, with the electric motors doing the heavy lifting where IC engines are suboptimal

HeavyMetalThunder:

 

With a hybrid, battery can work through traffic, with the electric motors doing the heavy lifting where IC engines are suboptimal

Electricity is available in the wall socket  No problem 

With 20k KM average overall fuel consumption is 12.4L on my Cayenne S. I don't drive in the city much, mainly longer highway drives.  Quite acceptable I think.

Once tried on a stretch from Zürich to Chur and was able to get 8.8L with an average speed of just below 100km/h. Nothing crazy just drive with the flow and always  at the max allowed speed (120km/h is 128km/h on the speedometer). 

2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2

RC,

Your car looks beautiful!  I'm a member over at 6speed and Rennlist and just found this forum.  This was the first post I read (all 37 pages).  What a journey!  Hope your father is doing better and that you are getting more opportunities to enjoy your car!

-Keith

keithos27:

RC,

Your car looks beautiful!  I'm a member over at 6speed and Rennlist and just found this forum.  This was the first post I read (all 37 pages).  What a journey!  Hope your father is doing better and that you are getting more opportunities to enjoy your car!

-Keith

Thank you so much for the kind words and welcome. 

My father isn't really better I'm afraid but my mother is OK again and things have been more relaxed lately. Unfortunately I still can't enjoy my car as much as I would want to, work also keeps me busy but I already have almost 6000 km on the car and it has been absolutely trouble-free (not a single issue, nothing).

Performance-wise, I didn't have much time for real life comparisons. From standstill, there is no other car in it's class to be able to keep up, the traction is just amazing. I even gave a Ferrari FF driver a run for his money, I was at least half a meter ahead of him up to 80 kph (from standstill).  Kidding aside, the performance is amazing for such a heavy car.

Another encounter has been a BMW M550d on the Autobahn: In the 80 to 250 kph speed range, he always fell back by at least a couple of hundreds of meters, so while the M550d might be a great and powerful Diesel, it is not even slightly close to Panamera Turbo S performance (which was to be expected). Things looked a little bit different with an E63 AMG (latest bi-turbo version with performance package) though: From 80 kph to 180 kph, we were side by side, not a bit of difference but over 180 kph, my Panamera Turbo S started to move away from him but very slowly. At 270 kph, he was only around two car lengths behind, not more. Still...impressive. 

So yes, I am very happy with performance and reliability but I always have the feeling, especially on the Autobahn, that the Panamera Turbo S is underpowered. This car could easily handle 100 horses more. Easily.

Handling performance however is amazing. On straight roads, the car feels heavy and the steering feels light and slightly disconnected from the street. The moment I start to drive through some fast and narrow curves, the whole character changes and the car feels very close to a 911. The only thing which actually kind of waters down the 911 feel is...the steering. I wish it would be slightly more direct and less light.

Next week, I get winter wheels on my Panamera Turbo S. I will post some photos, I got the 20'' RS Spyder rims with Pirelli SottoZero II W240 on them. The rims have been painted in matte black, they look amazing.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Thank you.  :)

Can I ask you a couple of questions regarding your choice of options?

1)  I noticed you went for a very sporty/aggressive look yet decided against the Sport Design Kit.  Why?  I know you said something about aerodynamics, but was that just a joke?

2)  You did not got the lower rear painted... is that because it would have been $ for almost no real visual benefit (having a flat black car)?

3) How are you liking the Multi-function steering wheel?  I believe you said you went that route because you could not get carbon fiber on the Sport Design wheel, correct?  Are you happy with your choice? I am hoping to get a Panamera (either a Turbo S or GTS, still undecided) and am torn between the two wheels... I love the paddles and look of the SD wheel, but like the functionality of the MF wheel.  And I can get the MF wheel heated. :)  I'm torn between Anthracite Birch or Yachting Mahagony for the wood trim and may get the MF wheel with the trim, not sure... How do you like having a wheel with two trims on it?  Does it feel weird given your hand positions when driving?

4) Anything you wish you did differently?  I think I remember reading (it has been 37 pages worth, lol) that you wished you had gotten ACC (since you got used to it on your MB).  Anything else?  

Thanks again RC,

Keith

1. Yes, indeed. According to Sport Auto, the Sport Design kit produces more drag in the front (which isn't really a problem but why should I pay more for it? ).

2. The lower rear is black anyway on my car.

3. I cannot say I don't like the multi-function wheel but especially the phone buttons are a little bit confusing. You got it right, I actually wanted the paddles but it is impossible to combine them with a carbon steering wheel (for whatever reasons). Since I ordered carbon applications for my car, I wanted the steering wheel to be in the same spirit. It looks great but I miss the paddles. A lot. I don't use the buttons, I just cannot get used to them, sorry. The carbon material feels good on the steering wheel but a little bit cold too, which is kind of annoying now that summer is over.

4. I would get the sport exhaust tailpipes, I didn't order them and they are not bolted, so I would need to cut off the current exhaust pipes to retrofit them. I would not go for ACC, simply because I have it on my daily driver (C63 AMG Coupe PP) and I never use it. I would also get the Thermal & Noise Insulated glass because at higher speeds, it really makes a difference and if I want to listen to the engine at lower speeds, I can open a window. At higher speeds, this doesn't matter anyway. The Lane Change Assist/Blind Spot Detection would have been nice too, it is helpful from time to time in my C63, even if I never rely on it. I also should have gone for the rear 8-way comfort seats w/Adaptive Sport Seats because they can be adjusted to older kids' needs much better. The door entry guards in carbon would have been nice too. Otherwise, I don't really miss anything.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Cheers RC.

One other question, has your car escaped the fate of the "whining noise" dilemma many of the MY 2013 AWD Panameras are suffering?

See here:   http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/panamera/712707-whining-noise.html

keithos27:

Cheers RC.

One other question, has your car escaped the fate of the "whining noise" dilemma many of the MY 2013 AWD Panameras are suffering?

See here:   http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/panamera/712707-whining-noise.html

Funny that you mention this: My Panamera Turbo PK factory test car, I got it as a loaner while my Turbo S was still at the factory, awaiting some technical mods, had this whining noise. My kids complained about it in the rear, they said it was very loud but I could barely hear it in the front. At some point, I thought it is related to the Burmester sound system but I actually forgot to ask about it because as soon as my car arrived, I forgot (almost) everything about the loaner. 

To make it short: No, my car doesn't have this noise, it is just perfect. No technical or quality issues at all, nothing. So far.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

That's good to hear!  Unfortunately others aren't as lucky as you... and rumors are that Porsche is not going to "fix" it... :(

RC:

My kids complained about it in the rear, they said it was very loud but I could barely hear it in the front. 

No 175% hearing then? 

Sorry, I just had to... 

Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.

bluelines:

RC:

My kids complained about it in the rear, they said it was very loud but I could barely hear it in the front. 

No 175% hearing then? 

Sorry, I just had to... 

bluelines:

RC:

My kids complained about it in the rear, they said it was very loud but I could barely hear it in the front. 

No 175% hearing then? 

Sorry, I just had to... 

I could play this game too, you know? I'm just too polite to do that. 

Btw: How old was the guy who previously owned your S5 Cab? 90? 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

C'mon it was quite funny 

Yes, apparently the guy had traded it in for a Panamera 

Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.

bluelines:

C'mon it was quite funny 

Yes, apparently the guy had traded it in for a Panamera 

Well, you can't be old enough to improve your taste. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Touché! 

Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.

bluelines:

Touché! 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC,

Low mile turbo s are now readily available 30 K us$ plus off window, here, so I'm going to get one for my wife.

Any must have options? All the performance ones are standard (except pccb) I believe, and there's no panoramic roof... 

Do we really need to pay up for burmeister or is the Bose sufficient?

Thanks for your advice,

watt

watt:

RC,

Low mile turbo s are now readily available 30 K us$ plus off window, here, so I'm going to get one for my wife.

Any must have options? All the performance ones are standard (except pccb) I believe, and there's no panoramic roof... 

Do we really need to pay up for burmeister or is the Bose sufficient?

Thanks for your advice,

watt

 

 

This is the reason I leased my Panamera Turbo S. In four years, this car won't be worth much and I wasn't ready to take the "hit".   In Germany, slightly used (up to 15k km) and not very old Panamera Turbo S sell for at least 40k EUR under the initial price tag. Ouch.

Burmester is great but you really hear the difference only if you are using very good recordings. It is not a must have for ordinary use (my wife couldn't tell the difference  ) but the audiophile will always enjoy Burmester more.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4