Crown

As Mike S noted a few days ago, it's been a good month for BMWs on RT - and I'm about to add to that.  Ever since Porker started a thread about his new CSL a while ago, I've been lusting after one of these extraordinary cars - and my search finally had a happy ending on Friday.  I spotted the ad on Thursday afternoon, called the dealer (in Johannesburg) immediately, paid a holding deposit, booked a flight for Friday morning, and by Friday afternoon I had started the 1,400 km drive back to Cape Town in my new CSL.

I was in the process of typing up a fairly comprehensive review of my initial impressions when I lost internet connectivity and my entire post - no time to retype it all now, so that will have to wait for another time.  For now, some pictures (taken at sunset today with my little point-and-shoot Sony), will have to do.  Suffice to say that I'm loving this car to bits!

All credit and thanks to Porker for rekindling my interest in this very special car. 

A few more pictures (I'm having some problems with the system today):

Congrats !
Enjoy your CSL !

Congrats!!!!

1987 911 Carrera 3.2 - 2012 Cayenne Diesel - 2010 Abarth 500 - 1995 BMW318ti

You can't go wrong with that car. Congrats and enjoy in good health.

Beautiful! Love it in black!

Congrats!

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Congrats mate, it looks beautiful!
BTW, is that a paraglider lying on the field in the background of pic #1?

Congrats!

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

Seeing a black CSL always reminds me I chose the 'wrong' colour years ago...

Great car, good catch!

Thanks guys, I think I got a good 'un here.  First registered in April 2004, no. 16 of 65 produced for the SA market, 40,000 km on the clock, two previous owners (the last of whom was a woman), full service history with BMW under extended MotorPlan to 2011, stock standard with all of the original bits and pieces present and accounted for.  Currently fitted with Michelin PS2s, which I'll probably replace with Cups when the time comes.  Planning to keep it stock, with the probable exception of some AP Racing calipers and pads (the brakes are fine for road use, but I supect they'd probably fade quite badly on the track).

I was a little apprehensive about the SMG box (being a card-carrying member of the manual dinosaurs club), but I must admit that it's growing on me - gear changes are a bit clunky at low speeds in town, but it really comes into its own when pressing on (provided that the fastest shift speed - program 5 on DriveLogic - is engaged).  In a way, the box seems to suit this car - and the blips on downshifts are delicious!

With Sport mode engaged, the induction roar from the big carbon fibre airbox is epic, while the responsiveness of that sweet N/A straight-six engine is an absolute joy.  

Joost:

Congrats mate, it looks beautiful!
BTW, is that a paraglider lying on the field in the background of pic #1?

It sure is.  This is the field where paragliders land after launching themselves off Lions Head (part of the Table Mountain range).  On clear, wind-free days, I can often see 20 or more paragliders in the air from my house in Camps Bay.

Joost:

Congrats mate, it looks beautiful!
BTW, is that a paraglider lying on the field in the background of pic #1?

Don't even think about it. 

Congrats on the CSL !!!!    I am seriously going through BMW M crazy mode right now with all of you getting such awesome cars. I hope my time comes soon. 

Congrats on your new toy, it´s a beauty

J.Seven

Mr. PureBlue! Congrats on your purchase, she's mint it seems! It reminds me my car doesn't have the scenery it deserves.

Very happy you've found such a good example, you now have something approaching my perfect garage. I'm scanning adverts for a 997.1 C2S X51 -20mm (a GT3 is still out of reach), it's been an itch waiting to be scratched since that car was released, 'sadly' in that spec they don't come along that often.

Regarding the induction roar, I can suggest one modification. In the airbox is a valve opening at 3.000rpm or 6.000rpm depending on the Sport-button being activated or not. This valve apparently often gets stuck so many owners have removed this valve, I've done the same, treating myself to induction roar from 1.000rpm to the redline.

There must be a CSL virus somewhere on Rennteam, we need to check on that. 

Congrats. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Porker:

Mr. PureBlue! Congrats on your purchase, she's mint it seems! It reminds me my car doesn't have the scenery it deserves.

Very happy you've found such a good example, you now have something approaching my perfect garage. I'm scanning adverts for a 997.1 C2S X51 -20mm (a GT3 is still out of reach), it's been an itch waiting to be scratched since that car was released, 'sadly' in that spec they don't come along that often.

Regarding the induction roar, I can suggest one modification. In the airbox is a valve opening at 3.000rpm or 6.000rpm depending on the Sport-button being activated or not. This valve apparently often gets stuck so many owners have removed this valve, I've done the same, treating myself to induction roar from 1.000rpm to the redline.

Thanks Porker.  As I said in my first post, it was you who reignited my interest in a CSL, so I have to thank you for that (and don't worry, I won't be sending you a bill). 

Good luck with the 997.1 C2S search - that would certainly be a great spec, combining the best two bits of my GTS with a car I enjoyed tremendously even without those enhancements.

I will definitely consider your advice regarding the airbox valve - although I kind of enjoy being able to drive around town in stealth mode and then switching to full "assault" mode for more spirited driving. 

Looks fantastic, love the colour and the wheels.

CSL said to be a "pure" driving experience so I guess it is appropriate for you

RC:

There must be a CSL virus somewhere on Rennteam, we need to check on that. 

Congrats. 

Thanks.  It's a good virus - infectious, but not life-threatening (just awe-inspiring). 

sevoman:

Looks fantastic, love the colour and the wheels.

CSL said to be a "pure" driving experience so I guess it is appropriate for you

I see you're waiting to take delivery of an AM baby soon - of the V12 Vantage variety, I hope.  Another one of my automotive obsessions, but a bit out of reach for now. 

No it is a V8 Vantage S. The V12 is wonderful but my gorilla long arms struggle with the position of its manual gear shift - maybe that is an honorable way of acknowledging that the V12V is beyond me price wise in Australia! Anyway I love the V8VS. Its sound is beyond amazing and I love all the carbon fibre, and a few other things too....

Congratulations! That is good mileage for the year of car. I'm sure you're loving it!

What is your opinion of the standard suspension on the CSL? I've never tried it as my car was fitted with Bilstein PSS10 from the start, but I hear it's quite good. Especially on the Nordschleife owners tend to prefer the OEM suspension.

Regarding the brakes, I warmly recommend the AP-racing six-pots front and rear, they're wonderful. I use them in combination with braided brake hoses, ATE Superblue brake fluid and Endless brakepads. They create wonderful stopping power without any fade whatsoever.

Porker:

Regarding the brakes, I warmly recommend the AP-racing six-pots front and rear, they're wonderful. I use them in combination with braided brake hoses, ATE Superblue brake fluid and Endless brakepads. They create wonderful stopping power without any fade whatsoever.

This is the most effective upgrade one can make to CSL. The brakes are the weakest point of the car. The stopping power is not bad but stock brakes fade easily; the common problem on all M cars 

I once driven my friend's CSL for 2 days (approx. 500-600 km) when I used to have 997.1 Carrera S back in 2007.

CSL's stock suspansion is just right both for road and track use. You feel the car and it is not too stiff (unlike my 997.1 which had -20mm sport chassie ). Also the quicker steering rack along with the stock suspansion makes the car "point and shoot" kind of character. And that marvelous intake noise which can only be surpassed by 355/360 Ferrari intake noise. 

ONUR

WAITING FOR THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

pride355:

Porker:

Regarding the brakes, I warmly recommend the AP-racing six-pots front and rear, they're wonderful. I use them in combination with braided brake hoses, ATE Superblue brake fluid and Endless brakepads. They create wonderful stopping power without any fade whatsoever.

This is the most effective upgrade one can make to CSL. The brakes are the weakest point of the car. The stopping power is not bad but stock brakes fade easily; the common problem on all M cars 

I once driven my friend's CSL for 2 days (approx. 500-600 km) when I used to have 997.1 Carrera S back in 2007.

CSL's stock suspansion is just right both for road and track use. You feel the car and it is not too stiff (unlike my 997.1 which had -20mm sport chassie ). Also the quicker steering rack along with the stock suspansion makes the car "point and shoot" kind of character. And that marvelous intake noise which can only be surpassed by 355/360 Ferrari intake noise. 

You've had the 997.1 C2S -20mm and experienced the CSL, what do you reckon is the sharper driver, the more focused machine? If I'd be forced to choose now, I wouldn't know which one to take, but I haven't experienced the C2S yet.

Porker:

pride355:

Porker:

Regarding the brakes, I warmly recommend the AP-racing six-pots front and rear, they're wonderful. I use them in combination with braided brake hoses, ATE Superblue brake fluid and Endless brakepads. They create wonderful stopping power without any fade whatsoever.

This is the most effective upgrade one can make to CSL. The brakes are the weakest point of the car. The stopping power is not bad but stock brakes fade easily; the common problem on all M cars 

I once driven my friend's CSL for 2 days (approx. 500-600 km) when I used to have 997.1 Carrera S back in 2007.

CSL's stock suspansion is just right both for road and track use. You feel the car and it is not too stiff (unlike my 997.1 which had -20mm sport chassie ). Also the quicker steering rack along with the stock suspansion makes the car "point and shoot" kind of character. And that marvelous intake noise which can only be surpassed by 355/360 Ferrari intake noise. 

You've had the 997.1 C2S -20mm and experienced the CSL, what do you reckon is the sharper driver, the more focused machine? If I'd be forced to choose now, I wouldn't know which one to take, but I haven't experienced the C2S yet.

I would definately choose the CSL. THe balance of the CSL is much better than tail heavy 911. For me, driving a CSL was more fun. 997.1 Sport Chassie is too stiff; it is like driving on wooden tires. I drove the cars back to back. CSL was sharp, had positive steering feel and direct. On the same road, my Carrera S was too stiff, uncomfortable, bounced a lot because of the road imperfections, too much feel on the steering wheel on bumpy roads, too sensitive to weight transfer. I love CSL buckets and prefer them over my Adaptive sports seats in 911.

On 911, the clutch was heavy and I had factory short shift which means the shift throws, especially 1st to 2nd gear shifts, were very notchy. As for the engine: that intake noise of the CSL was marvelous   

I also prefer F1 style gearboxes over manual transmission. I also found the SMGII gearbox of the CSL much better than my ex-E46 M3 SMGII. Especially downshift program was better. Thus CSL made louder and furious noises on downshifts evenif you are not on the gas. However, this was 5 years ago. Today, I may find it rather raw and slow after my E92 M3's DKG.

On the other hand, I must confess that 911 had much better brakes. And it was noticeable faster. One reason is Carrera S gearing is much better than CSL. Especially 4th, 5th and 6th gears ratios are much shorter on 911. CSL hit 220 km/h in 4th and 275 in 5th which are too tall gearing for just 360 hp. Also 911 put more power to the wheels than CSL evenif on paper CSL has 5 more hp.

However, I would switch the cars in a heartbeat if it was possible. I never liked my 997.1 Carrera S and in general I don't like 997 driving characteristics. 991 is much better in this regard. 

ONUR

WAITING FOR THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

pride355:

Porker:

pride355:

Porker:

Regarding the brakes, I warmly recommend the AP-racing six-pots front and rear, they're wonderful. I use them in combination with braided brake hoses, ATE Superblue brake fluid and Endless brakepads. They create wonderful stopping power without any fade whatsoever.

This is the most effective upgrade one can make to CSL. The brakes are the weakest point of the car. The stopping power is not bad but stock brakes fade easily; the common problem on all M cars 

I once driven my friend's CSL for 2 days (approx. 500-600 km) when I used to have 997.1 Carrera S back in 2007.

CSL's stock suspansion is just right both for road and track use. You feel the car and it is not too stiff (unlike my 997.1 which had -20mm sport chassie ). Also the quicker steering rack along with the stock suspansion makes the car "point and shoot" kind of character. And that marvelous intake noise which can only be surpassed by 355/360 Ferrari intake noise. 

You've had the 997.1 C2S -20mm and experienced the CSL, what do you reckon is the sharper driver, the more focused machine? If I'd be forced to choose now, I wouldn't know which one to take, but I haven't experienced the C2S yet.

I would definately choose the CSL. THe balance of the CSL is much better than tail heavy 911. For me, driving a CSL was more fun. 997.1 Sport Chassie is too stiff; it is like driving on wooden tires. I drove the cars back to back. CSL was sharp, had positive steering feel and direct. On the same road, my Carrera S was too stiff, uncomfortable, bounced a lot because of the road imperfections, too much feel on the steering wheel on bumpy roads, too sensitive to weight transfer. I love CSL buckets and prefer them over my Adaptive sports seats in 911.

On 911, the clutch was heavy and I had factory short shift which means the shift throws, especially 1st to 2nd gear shifts, were very notchy. As for the engine: that intake noise of the CSL was marvelous  

I also prefer F1 style gearboxes over manual transmission. I also found the SMGII gearbox of the CSL much better than my ex-E46 M3 SMGII. Especially downshift program was better. Thus CSL made louder and furious noises on downshifts evenif you are not on the gas. However, this was 5 years ago. Today, I may find it rather raw and slow after my E92 M3's DKG.

On the other hand, I must confess that 911 had much better brakes. And it was noticeable faster. One reason is Carrera S gearing is much better than CSL. Especially 4th, 5th and 6th gears ratios are much shorter on 911. CSL hit 220 km/h in 4th and 275 in 5th which are too tall gearing for just 360 hp. Also 911 put more power to the wheels than CSL evenif on paper CSL has 5 more hp.

However, I would switch the cars in a heartbeat if it was possible. I never liked my 997.1 Carrera S and in general I don't like 997 driving characteristics. 991 is much better in this regard. 

Interesting discussion.  Regarding the CSL's OEM suspension, it's difficult for me at this stage to make a proper assessment, as i haven't tested it on track yet - and the long drive down to Cape Town consisted mainly of long, boring straights.  On the few twisty mountain roads near the end of my trip, however, the suspension certainly acquitted itself well of its task - good balance, firm but not too stiff, definitely confdence-inspiring.  I can vouch for its "point-and-shoot" character.

Regarding the comparison to the 997.  I've spent a lot of time, on track and on the road, in both a 997.1 C2S without SPASM and a 997.2 GTS with SPASM - and certainly didn't find either to be too stiffly-sprung (although I leave the dampers in their Normal setting for road use).  I happen to enjoy the "tail-heavy" nature of the 911, its sensitivity to weight transfer and the constant feedback through the steering wheel - as it's what makes the car unique.  I also like driving a car wth manual transmission.  Bearing in mind the caveat that I haven't tracked the CSL yet, if your question specifically relates to which is the sharper driver and the more focused machine for track use, I would probably plump for the 997 at this point (but I might change my mind after putting the CSL on a track for the first time). 

For me, what makes these cars so absorbing is the fact that they are both designed to be drivers' cars (despite their obvious differences).  In fact, it is precisely their differences which make driving both a unique and thoroughly enjoyable experience - which also explains why I love driving my Megane RS (which adds a completely different dimension, being FWD and turbocharged).

PureBlue:

pride355:

Porker:

pride355:

Porker:

Regarding the brakes, I warmly recommend the AP-racing six-pots front and rear, they're wonderful. I use them in combination with braided brake hoses, ATE Superblue brake fluid and Endless brakepads. They create wonderful stopping power without any fade whatsoever.

This is the most effective upgrade one can make to CSL. The brakes are the weakest point of the car. The stopping power is not bad but stock brakes fade easily; the common problem on all M cars 

I once driven my friend's CSL for 2 days (approx. 500-600 km) when I used to have 997.1 Carrera S back in 2007.

CSL's stock suspansion is just right both for road and track use. You feel the car and it is not too stiff (unlike my 997.1 which had -20mm sport chassie ). Also the quicker steering rack along with the stock suspansion makes the car "point and shoot" kind of character. And that marvelous intake noise which can only be surpassed by 355/360 Ferrari intake noise. 

You've had the 997.1 C2S -20mm and experienced the CSL, what do you reckon is the sharper driver, the more focused machine? If I'd be forced to choose now, I wouldn't know which one to take, but I haven't experienced the C2S yet.

I would definately choose the CSL. THe balance of the CSL is much better than tail heavy 911. For me, driving a CSL was more fun. 997.1 Sport Chassie is too stiff; it is like driving on wooden tires. I drove the cars back to back. CSL was sharp, had positive steering feel and direct. On the same road, my Carrera S was too stiff, uncomfortable, bounced a lot because of the road imperfections, too much feel on the steering wheel on bumpy roads, too sensitive to weight transfer. I love CSL buckets and prefer them over my Adaptive sports seats in 911.

On 911, the clutch was heavy and I had factory short shift which means the shift throws, especially 1st to 2nd gear shifts, were very notchy. As for the engine: that intake noise of the CSL was marvelous  

I also prefer F1 style gearboxes over manual transmission. I also found the SMGII gearbox of the CSL much better than my ex-E46 M3 SMGII. Especially downshift program was better. Thus CSL made louder and furious noises on downshifts evenif you are not on the gas. However, this was 5 years ago. Today, I may find it rather raw and slow after my E92 M3's DKG.

On the other hand, I must confess that 911 had much better brakes. And it was noticeable faster. One reason is Carrera S gearing is much better than CSL. Especially 4th, 5th and 6th gears ratios are much shorter on 911. CSL hit 220 km/h in 4th and 275 in 5th which are too tall gearing for just 360 hp. Also 911 put more power to the wheels than CSL evenif on paper CSL has 5 more hp.

However, I would switch the cars in a heartbeat if it was possible. I never liked my 997.1 Carrera S and in general I don't like 997 driving characteristics. 991 is much better in this regard. 

Interesting discussion.  Regarding the CSL's OEM suspension, it's difficult for me at this stage to make a proper assessment, as i haven't tested it on track yet - and the long drive down to Cape Town consisted mainly of long, boring straights.  On the few twisty mountain roads near the end of my trip, however, the suspension certainly acquitted itself well of its task - good balance, firm but not too stiff, definitely confdence-inspiring.  I can vouch for its "point-and-shoot" character.

Regarding the comparison to the 997.  I've spent a lot of time, on track and on the road, in both a 997.1 C2S without SPASM and a 997.2 GTS with SPASM - and certainly didn't find either to be too stiffly-sprung (although I leave the dampers in their Normal setting for road use). 

Unfortunately you cannot choose SPASM for 997.1 Carrera S. It was avaliable for 997.2.

For 997.1 Carrera S, you either have PASM (which doesn't have LSD) or -20 mm sport chassie (which is actually only 10mm lower than PASM and has LSD). There is no sport-normal adjustment on -20 mm sport chassie. It is always on "too stiff mode" and not adjustable. It is almost as stiff as PASM in sport mode.

After I deliver the car, I remember reading -20 mm sport chassie explanation from Porsche and it was saying that "it is only for track use" 

They are right. My Carrera S was wonderful on İstanbul Park F1 Race Circuit. But I had driven there once in a total of 22.000 km.

997.2 SPASM with LSD is a whole different story though..

--

ONUR

WAITING FOR THE BEST CAR EVER 

11 E92 M3 CP - 09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

Quite right.  My 997.1 C2S had PASM (with no LSD), while my 997.2 GTS has SPASM (with LSD and -20mm Sport suspension).  If the optional -20mm Sport chassis on the 997.1 was anything like leaving the PASM in Sport mode all the time, it would certainly be too stiff for day-to-day use on the road.

pride355:

Porker:

pride355:

Porker:

Regarding the brakes, I warmly recommend the AP-racing six-pots front and rear, they're wonderful. I use them in combination with braided brake hoses, ATE Superblue brake fluid and Endless brakepads. They create wonderful stopping power without any fade whatsoever.

This is the most effective upgrade one can make to CSL. The brakes are the weakest point of the car. The stopping power is not bad but stock brakes fade easily; the common problem on all M cars 

I once driven my friend's CSL for 2 days (approx. 500-600 km) when I used to have 997.1 Carrera S back in 2007.

CSL's stock suspansion is just right both for road and track use. You feel the car and it is not too stiff (unlike my 997.1 which had -20mm sport chassie ). Also the quicker steering rack along with the stock suspansion makes the car "point and shoot" kind of character. And that marvelous intake noise which can only be surpassed by 355/360 Ferrari intake noise. 

You've had the 997.1 C2S -20mm and experienced the CSL, what do you reckon is the sharper driver, the more focused machine? If I'd be forced to choose now, I wouldn't know which one to take, but I haven't experienced the C2S yet.

I would definately choose the CSL. THe balance of the CSL is much better than tail heavy 911. For me, driving a CSL was more fun. 997.1 Sport Chassie is too stiff; it is like driving on wooden tires. I drove the cars back to back. CSL was sharp, had positive steering feel and direct. On the same road, my Carrera S was too stiff, uncomfortable, bounced a lot because of the road imperfections, too much feel on the steering wheel on bumpy roads, too sensitive to weight transfer. I love CSL buckets and prefer them over my Adaptive sports seats in 911.

On 911, the clutch was heavy and I had factory short shift which means the shift throws, especially 1st to 2nd gear shifts, were very notchy. As for the engine: that intake noise of the CSL was marvelous  

I also prefer F1 style gearboxes over manual transmission. I also found the SMGII gearbox of the CSL much better than my ex-E46 M3 SMGII. Especially downshift program was better. Thus CSL made louder and furious noises on downshifts evenif you are not on the gas. However, this was 5 years ago. Today, I may find it rather raw and slow after my E92 M3's DKG.

On the other hand, I must confess that 911 had much better brakes. And it was noticeable faster. One reason is Carrera S gearing is much better than CSL. Especially 4th, 5th and 6th gears ratios are much shorter on 911. CSL hit 220 km/h in 4th and 275 in 5th which are too tall gearing for just 360 hp. Also 911 put more power to the wheels than CSL evenif on paper CSL has 5 more hp.

However, I would switch the cars in a heartbeat if it was possible. I never liked my 997.1 Carrera S and in general I don't like 997 driving characteristics. 991 is much better in this regard. 

Thank you for your detailed reply! Always interesting to read such real life experiences and comparisons. I wish I could compare it to my impressions, but I still need to drive the 997.1 C2S with sport-suspension. I must say I enjoy a stiffly suspended car more than others, it gives me a sense of connection and directness, so I'm not sure if I would deem the sport suspension on the 997.1 too stiff.

For example, I find the PSS10 on my CSL a little too softly sprung, but I can hardly imagine it being that much softer than the sport suspension in a 997.1. A GT3 has always felt perfectly acceptable to me as well.

The steering in the CSL is indeed wonderfully direct, but I wouldn't mind a little more feel, which is apparently abundant in the sportier 997's.

Regarding the manual, well that would always get my vote vs. an automated manual, yet I must admit I'm getting to grips with the CSL's SMG transmission.

Regarding brakes, I'm sure the 997's are great, but I'm very happy with my AP-racing set on the CSL as well, couldn't ask for more...

I assume there's only one way to make up my mind, track one down and go for a ride in one!

Pure Blue,

that is one great example. I am equally attracted by the CSL and can understand your enthusiasm. Not sure how many CSLs have been acquired by forum members recently, guess I lost count... 

Anyways, enjoy the car!