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    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Let's be honest...the current Panamera Turbo S I ordered is actually a very "artificial" car. No way a 2 ton car can handle this way...without the electronic gadgetry doing miracles in the background.

    The steering of the Panamera Turbo PK I'm driving right now feels way too light for such a big car and yes, the car feels much lighter when you drive it but the weight is there, I can't really explain it properly but I feel the weight when I go sideways (this is actually the only moment I feel it... ).

    It is amazing what can be done with electronics and as long as the driver doesn't feel disconnected from the street, it is OK. Unfortunately I think that at some point, electronics influence will be so intense that drivers won't even notice if they made a driving error...until it is actually too late. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Ferdie:
    davew (cincy):

    Since PDK has become very fast and smooth, and (I think) even capable of shifting in the middle of a curve, why not have an input on the column (like a paddle or thumb button) just to tell the transmission "full go" (ie shift upwards for fastest acceleration based on predefined ideal shift points) or "give me torque now" or "downshift quickly for upcoming curve" etc.

    I'm no expert at all (the video above scares the .... out of me) but it seems like PDK is already monitoring accelerator, brake, steering, etc. so just telling the car general instructions could be all that is necessary for optimal performance.  Is this already being done, or am I just a simpleton??


    It already takes acceleration input (longitudinal as well as transversal) into account. These general instructions you are referring to is more or less what is stored in standard, sport and sport plus mappings, isn´t it?


    I drive a manual, and have only occasionally tried the PDK for interest, so I am not an expert, but I think current PDK uses onboard data to ESTIMATE THE PROPER MODE (such as selecting the next gear up or down, and the point at which to change to it) and it also learns driving style through datagathering in general.  This approach, though pretty impressive for what it is, seems (to me) to be a little too inaccurate and general to be sufficient for highly competitive racing.  If shifting is smooth and quick enough to occur pretty much anywhere (like near the limit of traction in a curve) then perhaps allowing the driver to specify the exact (not estimated) operating mode (shift style) based on his observation and insight, and letting the transmission calculate and execute the shifting according to onboard data, within that driver-specified style, is a little different (I think) and possibly a better fit for racing scenarios.  Here I use style as a very temporary, dynamic state, not the same as choosing standard, sport, sport plus, etc.

    Maybe I'm a little off here, and (as is often the case) I probably shouldn't even express my uneducated thought on the subject...

    Thanks for your thoughts Ferdie, I think you know more about this than I do.


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Carrara:
    ...because it will help you go faster when you just so happen to find yourself driving on the Nuerburgring in a life or death situation in which you must get below a 7:20 lap time, or you die.

     

    Smiley

    Does this scenario include being chased by foreign agents, racing zombies, or cowboys versus aliens?


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Porsche-Jeck:
    Ferdie:
    Porsche-Jeck:

    Awesome Smiley And even with my garage neighbour  (white/orange 997 Cup) in a nice battle Smiley

    Indeed. Do you know who was driving?

    Don't know who was behind the wheel in the stint shown in the vid, but  Andy Guelden (Chief instructor of the NBR GmbH) was one of the drivers on the Teichmann Porsche. I had a nice chat with Timo K.  about the drivers team on that  car and his comment was very typical for him:  a bit "dirty" if you know what I mean Smileybut usually that's his way to express big respect for capable racers Smiley


    Okay, that makes sense since it didn´t look like the average amateur driving here. Didn´t know that "Mr. T." had such an interesting driver lineup. Smiley


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Don't know who was behind the wheel in the stint shown in the vid, but  Andy Guelden (Chief instructor of the NBR GmbH) was one of the drivers on the Teichmann Porsche. I had a nice chat with Timo K.  about the drivers team on that  car and his comment was very typical for him:  a bit "dirty" if you know what I mean Smileybut usually that's his way to express big respect for capable racers Smiley

     

    Last month I have been to a Formula 3 Driving Event at the Nürburging - Andy Gülden was the instructor.

    Really crazy and funny guy Smiley I love his jokes about Ralf Schumacher...Smiley

    Sorry for OT

    Blueflame Smiley


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    New Porsche 911 GT3 prototype spy video...

    New Porsche 911 GT3 Prototype -- Spy Video Link

    ...that prototype does NOT sound much like a GT3!!! Smiley

    Smiley SmileySmiley SmileySmiley


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Just for comparison, this is what a GT3 sounds like... turn up the volume! Smiley

    0-300 km/h Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0


    Exhaust sounds: GT3 RS 3.8 vs GT3 RS 4.0


    Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 review


    Porsche 997 GT3 RS on circuit Spa Francorchamps


    GT3 RS 4.0: Last Drive Before Hibernation - CHRIS HARRIS ON CARS

    ...thanks and all due respect to Andreas Preuninger and the team of Porsche engineers at Weissach!

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Maybe we hear what we want to hear... but there are only two spots in this "spy" video where the test car is actually on the throttle as opposed to cruising or braking/decelerating, and in these two spots it sounds fairly close (to my ears) to a 997 GT3, with that hollow resonance that most of us associate with the GT3 sound.  PDK has an interesting effect on the sound, as the fast changes mean the revs do not drop the way they usually do with the manual.   In the second video in your next post, the 3.8RS sounds like it does not have stock exhaust, making comparison meaningless.  


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S



    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Great videos. Senna is the man. I must get myself some of those shoes for track racing...


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    boytronic:

    Great videos. Senna is the man. I must get myself some of those shoes for track racing...

     but you don't drive on track!


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    sfo:
    boytronic:

    Great videos. Senna is the man. I must get myself some of those shoes for track racing...

     but you don't drive on track!

    The world is my track!



    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Porsche 991 GT3 spy video at the Nurburgring...

    Porsche 991 GT3 at the Nurburgring -- Video Link

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    Porsche 991 GT3 spy video at the Nurburgring...

     

    Porsche 991 GT3 at the Nurburgring -- Video Link

    Smiley SmileySmiley

    I cannot believe nobody has commented on this video - it is incredible!!

    The GT3 looks, sounds and goes better than it ever has before. This car is scorching the earth. 


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    And what do you guys think of the engine sound in the last few seconds - it does not sound like the DFI block but more like the Mezger dry sump block...


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    boytronic:

    And what do you guys think of the engine sound in the last few seconds - it does not sound like the DFI block but more like the Mezger dry sump block...

    You hear exhaust systems and maybe, to a certain extent induction systems, but not engine blocks. Both engines you refer to have flat/boxer 6-cylinder engines with the same even spacing of firing strokes. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    fritz:
    boytronic:

    And what do you guys think of the engine sound in the last few seconds - it does not sound like the DFI block but more like the Mezger dry sump block...

    You hear exhaust systems and maybe, to a certain extent induction systems, but not engine blocks. Both engines you refer to have flat/boxer 6-cylinder engines with the same even spacing of firing strokes. 

    Thanks for the correction Fritz!

    Heres hoping for a great engine...


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    boytronic:
    fritz:
    boytronic:

    And what do you guys think of the engine sound in the last few seconds - it does not sound like the DFI block but more like the Mezger dry sump block...

    You hear exhaust systems and maybe, to a certain extent induction systems, but not engine blocks. Both engines you refer to have flat/boxer 6-cylinder engines with the same even spacing of firing strokes. 

    Thanks for the correction Fritz!

    Heres hoping for a great engine...

    That was meant to be more of an opinion than a correction Smiley, bearing in mind just how different the Mezger engine itself can sound when comparing, for example, the high-revving 996 or 997 GT3 versions with the high-torque, lower revving Turbo versions with stock exhaust systems. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    New Porsche 911 GT3 to get 450bhp...

    Hardcore version of the latest Porsche 911 gets a power hike to 450bhp and sheds 40kg compared with its predecessor; set to be unveiled next March...

    Porsche is stepping up development of its all-new 911 GT3, the most focused version of the ‘991’ generation of the iconic sports car yet. The new model is set to be unveiled at the 2013 Geneva motor show next March and the order books will open soon after that.
     
    The new GT3 looks set to be powered by the latest evolution of Porsche’s motorsport-derived normally aspirated 3.8-litre flat six, rather than adopting the larger 4.0-litre powerplant used in the 997-generation GT3 RS 4.0.
     
    Porsche insiders have hinted that the power output will be in the region of 450bhp in the new GT3 — some 15bhp more than in the outgoing model. That should translate to a 0-62mph time of less than 4.0sec and a top speed approaching 200mph.
     
    The new GT3 is likely to have just the one transmission option: a PDK seven-speed, dual-clutch automatic. The lack of a manual option in the GT3 is sure to cause controversy among 911 purists, especially after the 911 switched to electric steering. The PDK transmission is also heavier than the manual, something at odds with the GT3’s lightweight approach. 
     
    Nevertheless, insiders claim that about 40kg has been shed from the GT3 compared with its immediate predecessor, which had a kerb weight of 1395kg.
     
    Although the choice of gearbox is heavier, Porsche has shaved off weight in the new GT3 by increasing the use of lightweight materials for the bodywork. Interior trim and equipment levels will also be reduced compared with standard 991 models and the rear seats will be deleted.
     
    Visually, the GT3 will be easy to distinguish from the base Carrera and Carrera S models. The spy pictures reveal that the GT3’s bodywork has been totally overhauled compared with the standard models.
     
    At the front, a new splitter has been added, as has a new, more sculpted front bumper. Wider air ducts also feature at the front of the car to improve cooling to the more powerful rear-mounted engine. There is an extra air intake between the bonnet and the top of the front bumper, too.
     
    Wider sills and flared wheel arches also feature. Housed within the arches are larger, 20-inch alloy wheels, which
are centre locking.
     
    The most distinctive element of the rear is a large, fixed wing. The rear bumper has been reprofiled and twin rear exhausts sit in the car’s centre.
     
    Insiders have confirmed
that the even more hardcore
GT3 RS will return in 991 guise, but not before 2015. Its power is said to be about 480bhp.
     
    Before the 911 GT3 is revealed, Porsche will launch all-wheel-drive versions of 
the Carrera and Carrera S. 
The Carrera 4 and Carrera 4S are expected to be revealed in both coupé and cabriolet guises at the Paris motor
show in September.
     
     
     
     

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    All great, except for the rear spoiler indecision


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    I asked earlier , but I'll ask again....What is this spoiler?? That was on early 991 GT3 mules.

    1344329455381m1fy207bvx9a.jpg1344329455387m1fy208b1h98.jpg1344329455391m1fy208bag9b.jpg1344329455395Spyshots-Porsche-991-GT3.jpg


     


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    SportCarGroup:

    What is this spoiler??

     

    That is a better looking spoiler. I don't think anyone knows if this is the real deal or just an early prototype.

    I would not mind a spoiler delete option to only keep the ducktail Smiley


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    As you can see from the pics this is the new dynamic adjustable spoiler.  Much better than having a Max Power wing on the back!


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    boytronic:

    As you can see from the pics this is the new dynamic adjustable spoiler.  Much better than having a Max Power wing on the back!

    The owner of this car may agree Smiley

    9ff_1.jpg

    Story:

    http://bridgetogantry.com/2/index.php/home/amusingamazing/445-the-reality-of-1000hp-and-350kmh-on-the-nordschleife


    --

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    A few more 991 GT3 spy pics...

    ...now in glorious High Definition! Smiley

    2013 Porsche 991 GT3 spy pics -- Autoevolution link

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Quite provocatively the best 911 to date. :)


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    boytronic:

    Quite provocatively the best 911 to date. :)

    Yes, as expected the last 911 will objectively be the best, subjectively is a different story Smiley


    --

    997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    2013 Porsche GT3 Spy Video...

    2013 Porsche GT3 Spy Video -- HD Link

    Dear Porsche... how about some new 991 GT3 spy videos? Smiley

    Smiley SmileySmiley


    Re: PDK in the next 991 GT3?

    Spyshots: Porsche 991 GT3
     
    Porsche-991-GT3_SpyPhoto-01.jpg
     
    (22 August 2012)
     
    Everyone already knows that Porsche will come up with a number of special models. Next to all the special editions which are actually not more than a Carrera S, we can also expect all the standard models. Think of the Turbo and the GT versions. To start, Porsche will come up with the GT3 and this car was recently spotted while testing on the Nürburgring!
     
    To start, the Porsche GT3 must be a pure car. That means that we can expect a hard and sporty undercarriage and a power upgrade. The power will all be directed to the rear wheels of the car. But that’s not new. When we listen to the shifting it sounds just like an automatic gearbox. The PDK system of Porsche is developed to shift perfectly but the real purists prefer a manual gearbox. So we think it’s obvious that both gearboxes will be available for this car! 
     

    When we look at the exterior of the car there is not much that surprises us. More and bigger spoilers make the car generate more downforce. We don’t see the air intakes before the rear wheels, we expect to see that on the Porsche 991 GT2 (RS). We don’t know for sure how many models Porsche will come up with but we will know this all in the next two to four years. We can expect the Porsche 991 GT3 in 2013.

    The only question left: where is the Porsche 991 Carrera 4S?

    Porsche-991-GT3_SpyPhoto-02.jpg

    Porsche-991-GT3_SpyPhoto-03.jpg

    Porsche-991-GT3_SpyPhoto-04.jpg

    Porsche-991-GT3_SpyPhoto-05.jpg

    Porsche-991-GT3_SpyPhoto-06.jpg

    Porsche-991-GT3_SpyPhoto-07.jpg

    Porsche-991-GT3_SpyPhoto-08.jpg

    Porsche-991-GT3_SpyPhoto-09.jpg

    Porsche-991-GT3_SpyPhoto-10.jpg

    Spy Video: Porsche 991 GT3 2013

    Spyshots: Porsche 991 GT3 -- Video Link

    Spyshots: Porsche 991 GT3 -- Autogespot Link

    Smiley SmileySmiley


     
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