Jul 18, 2012 3:10:11 PM
- JoeRockhead
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Board: Motor Sports
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Jul 18, 2012 3:32:58 PM
- bluelines
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Re: Save Nurburgring
Great comment on Save The Ring Facebook page "What about everyone putting 100 euro contribution to a fund to save it and let Sabine run it how it should be run" 
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Re: Save Nurburgring
bluelines:
Great comment on Save The Ring Facebook page "What about everyone putting 100 euro contribution to a fund to save it and let Sabine run it how it should be run"
Makes a lot of good sense..
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"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."
Aug 9, 2012 8:00:32 AM
- Porsche-Jeck
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Gnil
Re: Save Nurburgring
"Erlebnisgrab" (Event Graveyard) describes it correctly 
Some more figures: the only valuable assets (Nordschleife + GP circuit) carry a book value of about 45 m€ (not included in the 330 m€ figure). A recently conducted assessment (E&Y) concluded that the whole thing (the two tracks + the graveyard) is worth around 125 m€. Mind you the new buildings are only 2 years old.
Funny thing: when I showed the new Eifel Disneyland to my old man (an architect for decades familiar with these kind of projects) right after the grand opening and asked him: would do you think what the building costs for all this could be (without "inflated" prices, "kick-backs" etc...) he answered: a realistic ball park figure could be 80 m€. Now have a look at the E&Y figures: 125 m€ - 45 m€ = ? 
Now if they pumped 330 m€ taxpayers money into the graveyard and if the buildings are worth only 80 m€ some guys must have made a fortune...unbelievable 
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Aug 11, 2012 9:09:52 AM
- Atzporsche
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Re: Save Nurburgring
It's a disgrace what happened to the NBR. Corrupt politicians and various scam artists did make fortunes. Goes to show, government is incapable to fix things since they are terribly inefficient and without expertise regarding their subject whatsoever. BUT, the track is saved for next year at least!!
Aug 11, 2012 8:35:40 PM
- Atzporsche
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Re: Save Nurburgring
EU has no place investing.. they should have investigated the financial situation of Greece.. and Spain.. and Portugal.. and Italy before forcefully including them in the eurozone. EU certainly has no place denying a bailout for this piece of heritage over money to Greece.. (like flushing it down the toilet) Shame on that EU Commission, people are starving in Europa because of their idiocy 
But go ahead, Germany will just investigate and cancel any future bailouts 
Aug 12, 2012 6:55:14 AM
- reginos
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Re: Save Nurburgring
Two completely different issues. There is a set of rules relating to state aid to companies which the EC want to investigate whether they were contravened in the case of NBR. As a place of heritage the NBR could be taken over by the German State and be made into a public monument/museum, if the German public so wished, instead of being run as a private enterprise in trouble which cannot receive government aid.
This has nothing to do with the bail-out of countries. These country bail-outs BTW are not donations, as many mistakedly are let to believe, but loans carrying substantial interest and obligation for repaymanent.
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Aug 12, 2012 7:32:16 AM
- Atzporsche
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Re: Save Nurburgring
But they are indirectly related.. Germany's intern financials are strained already due to bailout funds going south to a hopeless situation.. How are you so certain the money will be returned? Repayment obligations and interest mean little when Greece has left the monetary union altogether (possibly at the end of 2012)
As for the NBR, people want it to stay private, have no problem paying paying for it. So why did the government intervene and blow 300 million EUR to build a lame theme park NO one wanted in the first place? I will be honest I do not know all the specific details of the NBR, it was running a deficit for years before. But I think it's automotive Mecca and frankly a goldmine if managed properly. There are so many ways to make it viable, but blowing cash for a lame theme park certainly wasn't one of them. Disneyland is in Paris
Aug 12, 2012 8:34:46 AM
- reginos
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Re: Save Nurburgring
I think the 3 major German manufacturers, VW, Mercedes and BMW should purchase the NBR from the State and turn it into an automotive centre devoted 100% to automotive matters, with museums, test facilities, motorsport tracks, leisure driving facilities etc.
Neither can the government nor private investors unrelated to the motor industry save the famous track.
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"Form follows function"
Aug 12, 2012 9:57:25 AM
- Atzporsche
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Re: Save Nurburgring
reginos:
I think the 3 major German manufacturers, VW, Mercedes and BMW should purchase the NBR from the State and turn it into an automotive centre devoted 100% to automotive matters, with museums, test facilities, motorsport tracks, leisure driving facilities etc.
Neither can the government nor private investors unrelated to the motor industry save the famous track.
Amen! 
Aug 12, 2012 9:59:24 AM
- easy_rider911
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Aug 12, 2012 10:24:58 AM
- fritz
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Re: Save Nurburgring
easy_rider911:
+1
But rival manufacturers would not want their German rivals to know what they are testing ...
The various manufacturers already test their cars at the Nürburgring northern loop at the same time on the days when the circuit is closed to the public for this express purpose, so nothing would change in that respect.
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fritz
Re: Save Nurburgring
reginos:
Hence the so many spy pictures and videos that we see so often.
--"Form follows function"
Exactly, though they are taken form the perimeter fences or shot outside the circuit as test cars arrive or leave there to drive back to the manufacturers' own workshops in various local villages.
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Aug 12, 2012 11:15:16 AM
- easy_rider911
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Re: Save Nurburgring
Yes, I know that the Nordschleife is closed for this purpose but I wasn't aware that they test at the same time ... I suppose they don't bother with a totally private test due to the spyshot photographers who capture what they are doing anyway ...
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Aug 14, 2012 5:00:06 PM
- Atzporsche
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Re: Save Nurburgring
Yes they test at the same times and they even go out in each other's cars. For example, if Porsche is developing the Pajun to fight the Mercedes E class, they will also run it along one sometimes in various comparative testing measures etc. This is quite interesting. They should open up the tribunes and have a camo mule car race 
Aug 14, 2012 5:28:07 PM
- fritz
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Re: Save Nurburgring
easy_rider911:
Yes, I know that the Nordschleife is closed for this purpose but I wasn't aware that they test at the same time ... I suppose they don't bother with a totally private test due to the spyshot photographers who capture what they are doing anyway ...
The Nordschleife is in great demand, so getting exclusive access to it is difficult and expensive - even by the standards of auto industry development budgets.
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fritz
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