Crown

Porker:

I don't think GTR-sales should be pitched against 911 sales as a whole, compare them to 911 Turbo-sales or GT3-sales if you like. The GTR is a much more focused machine than your regular Carrera thus appeals to a narrow but passionate clientèle.

It's the same case with Porsche's GT3, while it may only account for a small percentage of the 911's sales, it's the model of which the most pictures circulate, the most post are written, etc... Thanks to its small but passionate following.

Right!

The GTR is more of a niche segment positioning rather than a mass seller,i haven't seen hairdressers driving one ,actually i haven't seen girls driving them either...

hugo:

Porker:

I don't think GTR-sales should be pitched against 911 sales as a whole, compare them to 911 Turbo-sales or GT3-sales if you like. The GTR is a much more focused machine than your regular Carrera thus appeals to a narrow but passionate clientèle.

It's the same case with Porsche's GT3, while it may only account for a small percentage of the 911's sales, it's the model of which the most pictures circulate, the most post are written, etc... Thanks to its small but passionate following.

Right!

The GTR is more of a niche segment positioning rather than a mass seller,i haven't seen hairdressers driving one ,actually i haven't seen girls driving them either...

That is the point.  With just 6000 cars worldwide you are hardly going to see anyone driving one.  

fritz

reginos:

I think around 20.000 911s are produced annually.

If the 6.000 figure is true, it seems that the GT-R is an Internet forum favorite where purchases are of the virtual kind.

I suspect more GT-R fans than 911 fans are still living  with their mothers after age 21.

JimFlat6:

GTR wasnt intended to match sales numbers with the 911. It's just a Halo car for brand promotion and marketing.

And it works very well in that role ...to rental car fleet buyers
:

fritz:

That is the point.  With just 6000 cars worldwide you are hardly going to see anyone driving one.  

I see quite a few of them on the streets. It´s about the same number as 991s around here. Indeed, only males so far.

Ferdie:

fritz:

That is the point.  With just 6000 cars worldwide you are hardly going to see anyone driving one.  

I see quite a few of them on the streets. It´s about the same number as 991s around here. Indeed, only males so far.

C'mon, Ferdie,  when quoting my post you left off the most important parts, namely:     " "

Shame on you. 

fritz

See a white GTR beside me at a red light and I actually did like the exterior. The interior however is the off put, Nissan should have kept it more simplistic with less dials and buttons..It still does have presence ( partly due to its reputation ) even if you like it or not, imo...

--

throt

"I didn't do it"

Looks like the next gen GT-R just got the axe as well..

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/07/27/nissan-gt-r-future-in-doubt/

Atzporsche:

Looks like the next gen GT-R just got the axe as well..

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/07/27/nissan-gt-r-future-in-doubt/

That article looks familiar.

Ah, yes. That's why : 

http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/20424334/Re_Audi_wins_Spa_24_H/page1.html?vs=11&scrollmode=POST#post7

fritz

Atzporsche:

Looks like the next gen GT-R just got the axe as well..

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/07/27/nissan-gt-r-future-in-doubt/

I wonder what effect that would have on residuals....

throt

"I didn't do it"

hugo:

Porker:

I don't think GTR-sales should be pitched against 911 sales as a whole, compare them to 911 Turbo-sales or GT3-sales if you like. The GTR is a much more focused machine than your regular Carrera thus appeals to a narrow but passionate clientèle.

It's the same case with Porsche's GT3, while it may only account for a small percentage of the 911's sales, it's the model of which the most pictures circulate, the most post are written, etc... Thanks to its small but passionate following.

Right!

The GTR is more of a niche segment positioning rather than a mass seller,i haven't seen hairdressers driving one ,actually i haven't seen girls driving them either...

 

It's not hard to believe. And to be honest, it's not such a bargain anymore. It's like $100K now. I remember when they were $20K less just a few years ago.

Price/performance only holds true for so long. There is a lot more to a car than its performance. The GTR is not a cool car. Period. At $60-70K I like it, at $100K I don't. I'd buy a used 2009/10, then throw a few thousands in aftermarket stuff at it to bring it up to 2013 performance, and then some.

That said, I don't think a 991 is a good deal either. A decent 991 Cabrio is like $120-130K. Rip-off imo. Not that a 991 is an exotic, but high-end and exotic car prices are getting way too high lately.

I agree the 991 is getting on the wrong side of expensive cars. This can be partly blamed on the proliferation of optional extras which buyers believe they must have.

The best value Porsche of all times IMO, on the basis of performance and quality to price was the 997.1 with the 997.2 a close second especially if automatic was a requirement.

"Form follows function"

I agree, In the UK a sensible spec 991s will cost you £91. That's a bit heavy imo.

throt

"I didn't do it"

The GTR pricing rose about 5K annually

throt:

I agree, In the UK a sensible spec 991s will cost you £91. That's a bit heavy imo.

If you look on PCGB used car website, a 991 that would have cost £90 only seven months ago is now retailing at not much more than £70k. For a private buyer who had the misfortune to buy that car new would probably mean suffering a loss of over £30k in that time. Frightening, particularly when the 991 is still in it's new car exclusive honeymoon period.  And the dealers tell you that there is no discounts to protect residual values. They are having a laugh!

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - Albert Einstein

Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

This is theoretical IMO. Who orders a  speced 991 and looks to sell after 7 months? If someone is that stupid or careless with his money, let him suffer the heavy depreciation. 

Unless someone is a "money is no object" type of individual and can always afford the latest, expensive cars make financial sense if you keep them for a long time.

--

"Form follows function"

reginos:

This is theoretical IMO. Who orders a  speced 991 and looks to sell after 7 months? If someone is that stupid or careless with his money, let him suffer the heavy depreciation. 

Unless someone is a "money is no object" type of individual and can always afford the latest, expensive cars make financial sense if you keep them for a long time.

--

"Form follows function"

According to OPC Swindon it happens all the time amazingly.  One guy bought a new 991 and only a month later saw another one in the showroom in a colour he preferred and chopped then and there. Still if you are a Canary Wharf Banker in receipt of your annual £250,000 bonus for fleecing as many customers as you can who cares?

I guess the cars currently being offered are mainly the first tranch of demonstrators being moved on.

--

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - Albert Einstein

Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

dreamcar:

reginos:

This is theoretical IMO. Who orders a  speced 991 and looks to sell after 7 months? If someone is that stupid or careless with his money, let him suffer the heavy depreciation. 

Unless someone is a "money is no object" type of individual and can always afford the latest, expensive cars make financial sense if you keep them for a long time.

--

"Form follows function"

According to OPC Swindon it happens all the time amazingly.  One guy bought a new 991 and only a month later saw another one in the showroom in a colour he preferred and chopped then and there. Still if you are a Canary Wharf Banker in receipt of your annual £250,000 bonus for fleecing as many customers as you can who cares?

I guess the cars currently being offered are mainly the first tranch of demonstrators being moved on.

--

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - Albert Einstein

Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

I agree, guys,

If you earn your money a dirty way ( easy come easy go ) your not going to care about being ripped off by any dealership because it's dirt money anyway. If you work your butt off, that's when you will second thought your spenditures..And to exchange up to change a colour, well, that maybe is an example of the easy come the easy go brigade..

Also, the 991 build slots surprised me, it was very available and they still were trying to shift off the floor a couple of 997.2 c4s, you would of got a discount on them without doubt..

throt

"I didn't do it"

throt:

dreamcar:

reginos:

This is theoretical IMO. Who orders a  speced 991 and looks to sell after 7 months? If someone is that stupid or careless with his money, let him suffer the heavy depreciation. 

Unless someone is a "money is no object" type of individual and can always afford the latest, expensive cars make financial sense if you keep them for a long time.

--

"Form follows function"

According to OPC Swindon it happens all the time amazingly.  One guy bought a new 991 and only a month later saw another one in the showroom in a colour he preferred and chopped then and there. Still if you are a Canary Wharf Banker in receipt of your annual £250,000 bonus for fleecing as many customers as you can who cares?

I guess the cars currently being offered are mainly the first tranch of demonstrators being moved on.

--

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - Albert Einstein

Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

I agree, guys,

If you earn your money a dirty way ( easy come easy go ) your not going to care about being ripped off by any dealership because it's dirt money anyway. If you work your butt off, that's when you will second thought your spenditures..And to exchange up to change a colour, well, that maybe is an example of the easy come the easy go brigade..

Also, the 991 build slots surprised me, it was very available and they still were trying to shift off the floor a couple of 997.2 c4s, you would of got a discount on them without doubt..

In a way that ties up with what I picked up both at OPC's at the Driver experience centre at Silverstone, the new Boxster is so brilliant a lot of potential 991 buyers are switching to it as 991is becoming perceived that it isn't worth the premium any more and that Porsche need to significantly up their game with 991. OPC Swindon have had customers switching to it from AM V8's and even Ferrari California. The significant unsaid point there is that they are switching to Boxster not 991.

Unless that is sales BS by the OPC's to try and sell me a Boxster of course.

--

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - Albert Einstein

Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

dreamcar:

OPC Swindon have had customers switching to it from AM V8's and even Ferrari California. The significant unsaid point there is that they are switching to Boxster not 991.

           Unless that is sales BS by the OPC's to try and sell me a Boxster of course.

 Salestalk to be taken with

Adam2S:

dreamcar:

OPC Swindon have had customers switching to it from AM V8's and even Ferrari California. The significant unsaid point there is that they are switching to Boxster not 991.

           Unless that is sales BS by the OPC's to try and sell me a Boxster of course.

 Salestalk to be taken with

I heard the same, dreamcar.. The residuals on the boxie will be far supreme too....Sat in one and it felt so well put together...

throt

"I didn't do it"

Great image

Adam is correct though. Cant stand all that sale BS.. I remember at Porsche Reading, they had a cover over a GT3RS4.0, I knew full well what model it was due to the wing and stated that its got to be a GT3RS4.0 to the salesman,,, he replied, "sorry I cant disclose what model it is", I immediately thought "what a twat you are". Another salesman told me later it belonged to Mark Webber..

Some sales personnel walk around the showroom as though they have something shoved up there butts...Sad.. 

throt

"I didn't do it"

Adam2S:

dreamcar:

OPC Swindon have had customers switching to it from AM V8's and even Ferrari California. The significant unsaid point there is that they are switching to Boxster not 991.

           Unless that is sales BS by the OPC's to try and sell me a Boxster of course.

 Salestalk to be taken with

It is not bs I know for a fact the 981 has taken potential 991 sales away. 

boytronic:

Adam2S:

dreamcar:

OPC Swindon have had customers switching to it from AM V8's and even Ferrari California. The significant unsaid point there is that they are switching to Boxster not 991.

           Unless that is sales BS by the OPC's to try and sell me a Boxster of course.

 Salestalk to be taken with

It is not bs I know for a fact the 981 has taken potential 991 sales away. 

You are right - the story is too consistent from too many sources to be fiction. And from my admittedly all too brief drives at Silverstone deservedly so. If we get our 997 serviced at Swindon I've been promised a loaner 991 for the day, maybe a longer drive may change my mind.

Apologies to palenimbus for drifting off topic here! 

--

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - Albert Einstein

Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"

Now the 3.4 Carrera costs 60% more than the 3.4 Boxster S. The price difference is huge, in spite of the extra HP from the more highly tuned 911 engine, and this makes people skeptical about getting the 911 especially now that the 981 is a very much improved car. 

However, personally I'd rather buy a used 911 (always RWD) if I couldn't stretch my budget to the cost of a new one. I prefer the lighter steering of the 911, the more spacious cabin, the excellent driving position, the noise coming more remotely from the back  and the tremendous traction out of bends. And the extra HP and Torque matter too.

"Form follows function"

reginos:

Now the 3.4 Carrera costs 60% more than the 3.4 Boxster S. The price difference is huge, in spite of the extra HP from the more highly tuned 911 engine, and this makes people skeptical about getting the 911 especially now that the 981 is a very much improved car. 

However, personally I'd rather buy a used 911 (always RWD) if I couldn't stretch my budget to the cost of a new one. I prefer the lighter steering of the 911, the more spacious cabin, the excellent driving position, the noise coming more remotely from the back  and the tremendous traction out of bends. And the extra HP and Torque matter too.

Totally agree reginos  New for new the non S 991 just doesn't stack up at all value wise against the brilliance of the 981 - but of course many prefer traditional 911 attributes that you mention. There is also the kudos, and that is important to some, of saying "I drive a new 911" rather than "I drive a new Boxster" .  

According to Autocar's road tests the PDK equipped 981S is even faster than the manual transmission non S 991 up to largely academic speeds so even the performance advantage isn't there for your 60% premium. 

But on a value for money basis here in the UK you can buy a very nice, less than a year old 997 GTS with less than 10,000 miles on the clock, with a two year warranty from the official Porsche network for similar money to  a 981S specced to our liking. That option in value terms is a no brainer IMO. Even low mileage six month old 991's are being offered at less than £10k more than a decently specced Boxster S! That kind of drop so close to the 991's launch when used cars would normally have a premium proves they are not selling well.

--

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - Albert Einstein

Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"