Crown

Ferdie:

kudryavchik:

Unfortunately I have no info about gt3rs 4.0 but from Porsche engineers and rus magazine Autoreview - GT3RS 3.8 has max 170 kgs at 300kph(not fixed wing) and GT2RS has 150 kgs at 300 kph (fixed wing).

P.S. if anybody is interested I can create a topic and put info about DF rations of F1 turbo era, 917/30 and other racers... Toyota Eagle had more than 4 tons of DF! Amazing!

trip:

I think it was SportAuto that tested these claims regarding the 458 and found them greatly exaggerated, I believe the GT3RS did achieve advertised downforce figures. It's not really surprising when you think about it, a car with the streamlined shape of the 458 (yes it has a big diffuser but not much else) can have more downforce than a car with a huge wing and front splitter combination.

Interesting subject. Sport Auto uses the Daimler wind tunnel with a static floor in comparison to e.g. Ferrari´s with a rolling floor. This certainly influences the results of a diffusor. One can compare both results from the 458 and RS 4.0 on Sport Auto´s website. Of course, due to the dimension of its aerodynamic aids, the GT3 has a significantly higher amount of downforce. Considering the sleek silhouette of the 458 and the above mentioned static test, the numbers are certainly impressive.

By the way, don´t hesitate to post these aerodynamic numbers. 

I have created the aero topic 

http://www.rennteam.com/forum/page1.html?vs=28#PostDetailsTitlePortlet

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sportcars-history.com

Atzporsche:

Remember that road going supercars outrun F1 cars top speed...

Only if you have long enough straights! 

F1 cars could outrun any so called super cars if they weren't restricted by twisties in the circuits..

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

John H:

Atzporsche:

Remember that road going supercars outrun F1 cars top speed...

Only if you have long enough straights! 

F1 cars could outrun any so called super cars if they weren't restricted by twisties in the circuits..

 

Not even then. BAR Honda recorded 415 kph when they took the drag off.

REALZEUS:

John H:

Atzporsche:

Remember that road going supercars outrun F1 cars top speed...

Only if you have long enough straights! 

F1 cars could outrun any so called super cars if they weren't restricted by twisties in the circuits..

 

Not even then. BAR Honda recorded 415 kph when they took the drag off.

But that was an extreme set up, the car was not able to steer normally... Anyway race cars and serial productions cars are two different poles from engineering and costs point of view. LMP or F1 car is a space shuttle while prod. cars even like veyron are only cars...

sportcars-history.com

Somebody's rendering of the F70:

The lines are to rigid IMO, I think it would be smoother than that.

I wonder if the F70 will employ any manner of active aero.

Heist:

I wonder if the F70 will employ any manner of active aero.

The Enzo did 10 years ago. It's a certain bet that its successor will up the ante on that front also. 

sportcars-history.com

Ferrari gets the award of most original camouflage . These guys must have so much fun imagining and creating all these fake parts 

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

I have a sneaky suspicion that this is one of those cars that looks truly ugly with camouflage but which could look stunning in real life ...

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

I hope they take the green house down an inch or two. It looks too tall in relation to the rest of the body.

I never quite warmed up to the 458 headlights. If this is in fact the new "family" headlight treatment, not quite sure it works for the F70. We'll see.

The front lights you can clearly recoginze!

I think the mask was built arund FF's lights, so the lights are brobably fake as well, the rearview mirrors look stock 458, so they are fake as well.

Recap of spy shots (without watermarks):

 

--

Adrian - Automotive fanatic

"You buy a Ferrari when you want to be somebody. You buy a Lamborghini when you are somebody." - Frank Sinatra

Wow, it looks so wide and low.. even the sideline is far below the wheel arches.. it means LeMans style fender arches. Sexyness

How can you be sure it's a camouflaged Ferrari?  

It might be the next Corvette  -  without camouflage.  

fritz

fritz:

How can you be sure it's a camouflaged Ferrari?  

It might be the next Corvette  -  without camouflage.  

No, this is the next Enzo.

REALZEUS:

fritz:

How can you be sure it's a camouflaged Ferrari?  

It might be the next Corvette  -  without camouflage.  

No, this is the next Enzo.

Oh!  Thanks for confirming that.  

fritz

I have a more serious question. How can Ferrari properly test the aero on the car with so much camo? I've always wondered this actually. For comparison purposes, see the 918 prototype, it's done over a million miles in actual body already in real life and all environments... Surely the computer calculations and wind tunnel cannot be enough these days.

Atzporsche:

I have a more serious question. How can Ferrari properly test the aero on the car with so much camo? I've always wondered this actually. For comparison purposes, see the 918 prototype, it's done over a million miles in actual body already in real life and all environments... Surely the computer calculations and wind tunnel cannot be enough these days.

Actually wind tunnels and CFD are more than enough. F1 works like this nowadays and the track session is only for validation purposes. This has nothing to do with this mule though, since it is obviously testing things other than aerodynamics.

The aerodynamics are tested in wind tunnels. The car works well with that camouflage on it, but with the final aero will work better.

Adrian - Automotive fanatic

"You buy a Ferrari when you want to be somebody. You buy a Lamborghini when you are somebody." - Frank Sinatra

Atzporsche:

I have a more serious question. How can Ferrari properly test the aero on the car with so much camo? I've always wondered this actually. For comparison purposes, see the 918 prototype, it's done over a million miles in actual body already in real life and all environments... Surely the computer calculations and wind tunnel cannot be enough these days.

Computer modelling and wind tunnel results are good for development, but need to be confirmed on the road/track.
The aerodynamics can be confirmed at better-protected locations in short tests well away from photographers' lenses, but the extended durability testing and performance tests at circuits like the Nuerburgring are almost impossible to completely hide from public view. 

fritz

fritz:

Atzporsche:

I have a more serious question. How can Ferrari properly test the aero on the car with so much camo? I've always wondered this actually. For comparison purposes, see the 918 prototype, it's done over a million miles in actual body already in real life and all environments... Surely the computer calculations and wind tunnel cannot be enough these days.

Computer modelling and wind tunnel results are good for development, but need to be confirmed on the road/track.
The aerodynamics can be confirmed at better-protected locations in short tests well away from photographers' lenses, but the extended durability testing and performance tests at circuits like the Nuerburgring are almost impossible to completely hide from public view. 

Well, if you happen to own you own race tracks it is not that hard. 

Cfd and wind tunnels are great ways to develop aero, but they never can say properly, is the aero works 100% effective. Cfd allows to create base model, but lacks accuracy in details. Wind tunnel is the next step, more detailed, but as far as I know mostly scaled models are used. Also, wind tunnel measures ideal conditions... So road or test track tests are necessary as in motorsport so in performance road cars. 

VW tests their vehicles in ehra lessien, porsche in weissach, leipzig and nardo test track. + numerous tests on public roads and zones with extreme climate.

sportcars-history.com

kudryavchik:

Cfd and wind tunnels are great ways to develop aero, but they never can say properly, is the aero works 100% effective. Cfd allows to create base model, but lacks accuracy in details. Wind tunnel is the next step, more detailed, but as far as I know mostly scaled models are used. Also, wind tunnel measures ideal conditions... So road or test track tests are necessary as in motorsport so in performance road cars. 

VW tests their vehicles in ehra lessien, porsche in weissach, leipzig and nardo test track. + numerous tests on public roads and zones with extreme climate.

The F1 teams, and I believe Ferrari is the largest and oldest, prepare their stuff in the lab and then validate them on track. Ferrari does the same with its production cars. They have won 31 F1 World Titles, they must know what they are doing... 

REALZEUS:

kudryavchik:

Cfd and wind tunnels are great ways to develop aero, but they never can say properly, is the aero works 100% effective. Cfd allows to create base model, but lacks accuracy in details. Wind tunnel is the next step, more detailed, but as far as I know mostly scaled models are used. Also, wind tunnel measures ideal conditions... So road or test track tests are necessary as in motorsport so in performance road cars. 

VW tests their vehicles in ehra lessien, porsche in weissach, leipzig and nardo test track. + numerous tests on public roads and zones with extreme climate.

The F1 teams, and I believe Ferrari is the largest and oldest, prepare their stuff in the lab and then validate them on track. Ferrari does the same with its production cars. They have won 31 F1 World Titles, they must know what they are doing... 

If they knew what they do they wont loose everything from 1984 till 1999 joke

of course they will do road tests, no doubt.

--

sportcars-history.com

REALZEUS:

fritz:

Atzporsche:

I have a more serious question. How can Ferrari properly test the aero on the car with so much camo? I've always wondered this actually. For comparison purposes, see the 918 prototype, it's done over a million miles in actual body already in real life and all environments... Surely the computer calculations and wind tunnel cannot be enough these days.

Computer modelling and wind tunnel results are good for development, but need to be confirmed on the road/track.
The aerodynamics can be confirmed at better-protected locations in short tests well away from photographers' lenses, but the extended durability testing and performance tests at circuits like the Nuerburgring are almost impossible to completely hide from public view. 

Well, if you happen to own you own race tracks it is not that hard. 

If you are referring to my sentence "extended durability testing and performance tests at circuits like the Nuerburgring are almost impossible to completely hide from public view", many of the test and race circuits available for such purposes in Europe do allow people outside the perimeter fences to see parts of the circuit as the circuit operators do not own all the surrounding land.
Where the Nuerburgring is concerned, test vehicles even have to travel on public roads from the circuit entrance to the manufacturers' own workshops, as can be seen on so many of the spy shots of camouflaged cars shown here. 

fritz

kudryavchik:

REALZEUS:

kudryavchik:

Cfd and wind tunnels are great ways to develop aero, but they never can say properly, is the aero works 100% effective. Cfd allows to create base model, but lacks accuracy in details. Wind tunnel is the next step, more detailed, but as far as I know mostly scaled models are used. Also, wind tunnel measures ideal conditions... So road or test track tests are necessary as in motorsport so in performance road cars. 

VW tests their vehicles in ehra lessien, porsche in weissach, leipzig and nardo test track. + numerous tests on public roads and zones with extreme climate.

The F1 teams, and I believe Ferrari is the largest and oldest, prepare their stuff in the lab and then validate them on track. Ferrari does the same with its production cars. They have won 31 F1 World Titles, they must know what they are doing... 

If they knew what they do they wont loose everything from 1984 till 1999 joke

of course they will do road tests, no doubt.

 

--

sportcars-history.com

They have had a rough patch; all teams do. McLaren hasn't won a Constructor's title in 13 years, Williams in 15 years and Lotus has dissapeared really. Ferrari is by far the most successful of them all and denying this is like denying that the sun rises from the east. 

Surely, there are going to be track tests also. That goes without saying. 

fritz:

REALZEUS:

fritz:

Atzporsche:

I have a more serious question. How can Ferrari properly test the aero on the car with so much camo? I've always wondered this actually. For comparison purposes, see the 918 prototype, it's done over a million miles in actual body already in real life and all environments... Surely the computer calculations and wind tunnel cannot be enough these days.

Computer modelling and wind tunnel results are good for development, but need to be confirmed on the road/track.
The aerodynamics can be confirmed at better-protected locations in short tests well away from photographers' lenses, but the extended durability testing and performance tests at circuits like the Nuerburgring are almost impossible to completely hide from public view. 

Well, if you happen to own you own race tracks it is not that hard. 

If you are referring to my sentence "extended durability testing and performance tests at circuits like the Nuerburgring are almost impossible to completely hide from public view", many of the test and race circuits available for such purposes in Europe do allow people outside the perimeter fences to see parts of the circuit as the circuit operators do not own all the surrounding land.
Where the Nuerburgring is concerned, test vehicles even have to travel on public roads from the circuit entrance to the manufacturers' own workshops, as can be seen on so many of the spy shots of camouflaged cars shown here. 

A) Ferrari does not test on the Ring. Why would they?
B) Mugello is a fairly detached circuit. You can test there in sercercy, no problem. 

REALZEUS:

fritz:

REALZEUS:

fritz:

Atzporsche:

I have a more serious question. How can Ferrari properly test the aero on the car with so much camo? I've always wondered this actually. For comparison purposes, see the 918 prototype, it's done over a million miles in actual body already in real life and all environments... Surely the computer calculations and wind tunnel cannot be enough these days.

Computer modelling and wind tunnel results are good for development, but need to be confirmed on the road/track.
The aerodynamics can be confirmed at better-protected locations in short tests well away from photographers' lenses, but the extended durability testing and performance tests at circuits like the Nuerburgring are almost impossible to completely hide from public view. 

Well, if you happen to own you own race tracks it is not that hard. 

If you are referring to my sentence "extended durability testing and performance tests at circuits like the Nuerburgring are almost impossible to completely hide from public view", many of the test and race circuits available for such purposes in Europe do allow people outside the perimeter fences to see parts of the circuit as the circuit operators do not own all the surrounding land.
Where the Nuerburgring is concerned, test vehicles even have to travel on public roads from the circuit entrance to the manufacturers' own workshops, as can be seen on so many of the spy shots of camouflaged cars shown here. 

A) Ferrari does not test on the Ring. Why would they?
 

Of course they do. They have their own workshop (for all Fiat group companies, IIRC) near the circuit, just like other manufacturers do. They know exactly why they do it. There have been mentions here in the past of M. Schumacher having done some of the chassis development testing for the 599 GTO at the Ring.  

fritz