Jun 7, 2012 6:57:24 AM
- Lewis McLaren
- Newbie
- Loc: Melbourne, Australia , Australia
- Posts: 4, Gallery
- Registered on: Mar 9, 2012
Jun 7, 2012 6:57:24 AM
Jun 7, 2012 7:35:31 AM
look at the dimensions..... very wide, flat! The driver seems to sit ahead of the cars center, relations seems to be like in an F1 car. Are those air intakes on the rear tyre for Turbos (seem to be small for that) or for brake cooling?
Jun 7, 2012 8:25:05 AM
Given the proportions and shape, the driver will most probably not look good in that car. So, a major element for owning a Ferrari for 99% of owners, will be absent.
Also the huge width (it looks as wide as a LMP class race car) will exclude it from many challenging road routes. It leaves the track as a possibility but how many super expensive Ferraris are regularly tracked?
"Form follows function"
Jun 7, 2012 10:16:04 AM
Jun 7, 2012 11:04:22 AM
well i guess nobody have to teach ferrari on how to make downforce on the production cars, and its aerodynamics!
it will be a great hyper car and be again a benchmark with the new hybrid technology.
it will be very interesting to see whats happen
993 c2
REALZEUS:
This looks like it is going to be epic!
As far as downforce and the lot in concerned, I think Ferrari know a thing or two more than we do, unless we have Adrian Newye or Rory Byrne amongst us.
hope they fixed their Wind tunel before building the final bodywork, cause their aero work in F1 was pisspoor for the past 2 seasons...(heard there was a math error in the software)
Jun 7, 2012 3:18:06 PM
Jun 7, 2012 5:01:49 PM
mojeIme:
for the aero, the answer is simple...long tail + huge ass diffusor equals bucket loads of DF...
Long tail means only low drag(the rear flow is not disturbed by turbulence behind the car), but not downforce. Evenmore, if the aerodynamics effective area of top of the car is much longer than the bottom that means, if I am not wrong, that the air goes faster on the top side of car. The faster the air goes the less is dynamic pressure which means that the body tends to go up if it happens on the top. Will be glad if anybody corrects me.
Diffuser is for DF...of course.
sportcars-history.com
Jun 7, 2012 5:24:51 PM
I wonder why the racing Ferraris from the GT classes necessitate wings and the road going versions do not.
Still performance and top speeds are very high on the road and I don't think much lower than the racers'.
Any explanations?
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"Form follows function"
Jun 7, 2012 5:38:37 PM
reginos:
I wonder why the racing Ferraris from the GT classes necessitate wings and the road going versions do not.
Still performance and top speeds are very high on the road and I don't think much lower than the racers'.
Any explanations?
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"Form follows function"
I think that top speed differs. Race versions has much more downforce and, more important - drag, because of wing.(+ different angle attack depends on track + different gear ratios). Road versions are much more streamlined. But I don't understand how 458 offers the same DF level as gt3rs without rear wing. Diffuser? Not sure. Or ferrari officials lie or their engineers are wizards)
sportcars-history.com
Jun 7, 2012 6:06:21 PM
I'd be very surprised if a car like the 458 road car had any downforce at all. At best, zero lift maybe.
I don't have the exact figures but I reckon my RS 4.0 has probably max 100 kgs of downforce at Vmax.
Different matter for race cars of course. A LMP1 car probably has over a ton.
Jun 7, 2012 6:19:00 PM
Futch:
I'd be very surprised if a car like the 458 road car had any downforce at all. At best, zero lift maybe.
I don't have the exact figures but I reckon my RS 4.0 has probably max 100 kgs of downforce at Vmax.
Different matter for race cars of course. A LMP1 car probably has over a ton.
Unfortunately I have no info about gt3rs 4.0 but from Porsche engineers and rus magazine Autoreview - GT3RS 3.8 has max 170 kgs at 300kph(not fixed wing) and GT2RS has 150 kgs at 300 kph (fixed wing).
P.S. if anybody is interested I can create a topic and put info about DF rations of F1 turbo era, 917/30 and other racers... Toyota Eagle had more than 4 tons of DF! Amazing!
P.P.S. but as I remember Ferraris commercials talks about around 200 kgs...
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sportcars-history.com
Jun 7, 2012 6:44:38 PM
Jun 7, 2012 7:06:23 PM
Depends on aero settings... Racing streamliners AU Stromlinienwagen and MB W125 went more than 430 kph in 1938, 917/30 went 413 kph on Talladega oval, Sportprototypes of Le Mans in 70-80's went around 400 kph(WM - 405), CART in mid also more than 400 on large ovals like talladega, Fontana...
In 2005 Bar Honda F1 went 413 kph on airport runway and 399 on salt.
The main problem of F1 on straight - open wheels and low efficiency aero. A lot of DF but also tons of drag. Ratio around 2,5 to1. Best LM Prototypes have more than 5 to 1...
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sportcars-history.com
Jun 7, 2012 7:30:16 PM
From Ferrari.com regarding F458 downfoce/aero efficiency...
The final solution chosen ensured adequate cooling to the running gear, while, at the same time, achieving a high level of aerodynamic efficiency (1.09) through excellent drag and downforce figures (Cd 0.33 and Cl 0.36 respectively) with 140 kg of downforce at 200 km/h and no less than 360 kg at top speed.
Jun 7, 2012 7:31:43 PM
mojeIme:
From Ferrari.com regarding F458 downfoce/aero efficiency...
The final solution chosen ensured adequate cooling to the running gear, while, at the same time, achieving a high level of aerodynamic efficiency (1.09) through excellent drag and downforce figures (Cd 0.33 and Cl 0.36 respectively) with 140 kg of downforce at 200 km/h and no less than 360 kg at top speed.
interesting, is it true?
sportcars-history.com
Jun 7, 2012 7:50:21 PM
I think it was SportAuto that tested these claims regarding the 458 and found them greatly exaggerated, I believe the GT3RS did achieve advertised downforce figures. It's not really surprising when you think about it, a car with the streamlined shape of the 458 (yes it has a big diffuser but not much else) can have more downforce than a car with a huge wing and front splitter combination.
Jun 7, 2012 8:28:15 PM
kudryavchik:Unfortunately I have no info about gt3rs 4.0 but from Porsche engineers and rus magazine Autoreview - GT3RS 3.8 has max 170 kgs at 300kph(not fixed wing) and GT2RS has 150 kgs at 300 kph (fixed wing).
P.S. if anybody is interested I can create a topic and put info about DF rations of F1 turbo era, 917/30 and other racers... Toyota Eagle had more than 4 tons of DF! Amazing!
trip:
I think it was SportAuto that tested these claims regarding the 458 and found them greatly exaggerated, I believe the GT3RS did achieve advertised downforce figures. It's not really surprising when you think about it, a car with the streamlined shape of the 458 (yes it has a big diffuser but not much else) can have more downforce than a car with a huge wing and front splitter combination.
Interesting subject. Sport Auto uses the Daimler wind tunnel with a static floor in comparison to e.g. Ferrari´s with a rolling floor. This certainly influences the results of a diffusor. One can compare both results from the 458 and RS 4.0 on Sport Auto´s website. Of course, due to the dimension of its aerodynamic aids, the GT3 has a significantly higher amount of downforce. Considering the sleek silhouette of the 458 and the above mentioned static test, the numbers are certainly impressive.
By the way, don´t hesitate to post these aerodynamic numbers.
sport auto supertest I think teseted -31kg on the front and +32kg on the back @200km/h
but since the Ferrari preatty much makes all it's dwnforce through the diffuser, those results are not really credable if they only use a static test...
Jun 8, 2012 11:29:00 AM