Crown

Two GT3 mules...both had PDK.... 

This confirms the rumor that the next GT3 will offer PDK. The question is (since both mules had PDK): Will there be a manual version too or is PDK optional?

2013...  Rumored power: 450-460 horses...modded Carrera S engine, no more Mezger engine.

Another rumor: The "classic" Mezger engine will die a slow death...last usage for street legal models may be in the 991 GT3 RS.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

If that's the case then the RS4.0 values will drop.

RR4:

If that's the case then the RS4.0 values will drop.

Why?  Did people really think this is the last Mezger engine equipped GT3 model?

Well...nothing is written in stone but I think Porsche is going to keep this engine alive for professional motorsport.

I'm still in love with the RS 4.0...amazing Porsche.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

So that would give us a GT3 PDK and a GT3 RS manual ...., probably then with both about the same performance

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Gnil:

So that would give us a GT3 PDK and a GT3 RS manual ...., probably then with both about the same performance

My concern would be that PDK in the GT3 alone would make the car so much quicker that a manual shift GT3RS would no longer be "competitive" in terms of track/straight line performance. Most likely, a GT3RS with inferior performance would be hard to sell 

Gnil:

So that would give us a GT3 PDK and a GT3 RS manual ...., probably then with both about the same performance

Just imagine 50 kg less weight and 40-50 horses more...I doubt that PDK can compensate for that in all the speed ranges. 

The second rumor I got, actually a couple of months ago, was that the Mezger engine is actually done in the 991 street legal models. This was some while ago, so maybe things have changed. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

They could have the GT3 PDK at 450/460 PS and the GT3 RS manual at 490/500 PS with a chassis upgrade, less weight  . So it would put the RS in front, just maybe the 0-100km/h would give PDK a better chance

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 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

RC:

RR4:

If that's the case then the RS4.0 values will drop.

Why?  Did people really think this is the last Mezger engine equipped GT3 model?

Well...nothing is written in stone but I think Porsche is going to keep this engine alive for professional motorsport.

I'm still in love with the RS 4.0...amazing Porsche.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Preuninger told in an interview (Christophorus)  that the factory engine-assembly-line for the old engine was already closed down. Just for the 4.0 he got the permission to use it again for the last 600 units.

Following this information the 991 GT3 should have the new engine.

Blueflame

Gnil:

They could have the GT3 PDK at 450/460 PS and the GT3 RS manual at 490/500 PS with a chassis upgrade, less weight  . So it would put the RS in front, just maybe the 0-100km/h would give PDK a better chance

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 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

I would have thought that PDK (in a GT3 version) should make up for about 0.5-1.0s on a track like Porsche Leipzig. Adding 50hp and deducting 50kg might make up for this superior performance of the regular GT3. But will it be enough to make the GT3 RS quicker? I somehow doubt it 

Honestly, I feel the days of maul gear-boxes in high-performance sprotscars are over  When it comes to performance there is no way around PDK (which implies the Mezger engine is gone forever). Also keep in mind that the benchmark of a GT3RS is not the GT3 - but the competition from the Italians, McLaren etc.

For me, it would make sense to use the same engine and PDK in both, the GT3 and the GT3 RS.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

For me, it would make sense to use the same engine and PDK in both, the GT3 and the GT3 RS.

I would pick manual over PDK if they offered the same performance. If PDK is quicker - well, I would have to think about it 

I think the Mezger engine is done, even for the Motorsports products.

The current engine has to get substantial air restrictor breaks in order to be competitive (in the ACO/FiA sanctioned series). Why would they produce a new car with an "old" engine?

As per my dealer (but he does not know 100%) both options "will" be offered....and of course PDK will be faster around a track - I think Porsche cannot neglect that customers will find it much easier to drive a PDK GT3 FAST around a track and t4 it makes total sense.  However, as a die-hard fan of a dying breed I still hope they will keep both options open as it;s clearly more fun,challenging and rewarding to master a manual - although slower. However, I do love to own a Mezger block which is just sounding out of this world and will not trade it - maybe just add another 

Porsche want to be renowned for their technical prowess.

Therefore:

1. PDK is a must when rivals from Ferrari, McLaren, BMW and Mercedes (not forgetting Nissan) have modern transmissions installed. A manual gearbox will be a waste of development resources IMO but if they want to offer a 7G manual let them do it.
2. Replacing the Mezger engine with a modern powertrain is also essential. How can you present yourself as a technical innovator when you indirectly admit that you cannot improve on an ancient piece of machinery, no matter how good it was in its prime?

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"Form follows function"

BjoernB:

As per my dealer (but he does not know 100%) both options "will" be offered....and of course PDK will be faster around a track - I think Porsche cannot neglect that customers will find it much easier to drive a PDK GT3 FAST around a track and t4 it makes total sense.  However, as a die-hard fan of a dying breed I still hope they will keep both options open as it;s clearly more fun,challenging and rewarding to master a manual - although slower. However, I do love to own a Mezger block which is just sounding out of this world and will not trade it - maybe just add another 

My guess is they will offer both for the 991 generation, then possibly retire the manual transmission for the following generation. Similar to what Ferrari did with the 430 and 458.

The GT3 PDK will probably be so good even the hardest dying fans will switch to the dark side and leave the manual behind 

997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers

reginos:

Porsche want to be renowned for their technical prowess.

Therefore:

1. PDK is a must when rivals from Ferrari, McLaren, BMW and Mercedes (not forgetting Nissan) have modern transmissions installed. A manual gearbox will be a waste of development resources IMO but if they want to offer a 7G manual let them do it.
2. Replacing the Mezger engine with a modern powertrain is also essential. How can you present yourself as a technical innovator when you indirectly admit that you cannot improve on an ancient piece of machinery, no matter how good it was in its prime?

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"Form follows function"

Exactly! Nothing more to be said... And installing PDK in GT3 but the manual in RS is above any imagination! That would be plain stupid! Both options offered - yes, but not as this...

BjoernB:

As per my dealer (but he does not know 100%) both options "will" be offered....and of course PDK will be faster around a track - I think Porsche cannot neglect that customers will find it much easier to drive a PDK GT3 FAST around a track and t4 it makes total sense.  However, as a die-hard fan of a dying breed I still hope they will keep both options open as it;s clearly more fun,challenging and rewarding to master a manual - although slower. However, I do love to own a Mezger block which is just sounding out of this world and will not trade it - maybe just add another 

Ususally, Porsche dealers have no sound information basis at all  My dealers in Germany often know less than what you can read in the press - not to speak about sources like Rennteam 

reginos:

Porsche want to be renowned for their technical prowess.

Therefore:

1. PDK is a must when rivals from Ferrari, McLaren, BMW and Mercedes (not forgetting Nissan) have modern transmissions installed. A manual gearbox will be a waste of development resources IMO but if they want to offer a 7G manual let them do it.
2. Replacing the Mezger engine with a modern powertrain is also essential. How can you present yourself as a technical innovator when you indirectly admit that you cannot improve on an ancient piece of machinery, no matter how good it was in its prime?

--

"Form follows function"

100% my opinion + two gear boxes/power trains/engines would be way more expensive than to focus on one concept , I am sure Porsche will not spend more money than the have too 

reginos:

Porsche want to be renowned for their technical prowess.

Therefore:

1. PDK is a must when rivals from Ferrari, McLaren, BMW and Mercedes (not forgetting Nissan) have modern transmissions installed. A manual gearbox will be a waste of development resources IMO but if they want to offer a 7G manual let them do it.
2. Replacing the Mezger engine with a modern powertrain is also essential. How can you present yourself as a technical innovator when you indirectly admit that you cannot improve on an ancient piece of machinery, no matter how good it was in its prime?

--

"Form follows function"

Sums it up perfectly.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

MKSGR:

 

Usually, Porsche dealers have no sound information basis at all  My dealers in Germany often know less than what you can read in the press - not to speak about sources like Rennteam 

Couldn't agree more..  When I enquired about the, then new, GTS... my OPC's had never heard of them..!

The same applies now - if you want the latest info on all things Porsche... then Rennteam is the best place to get it..

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

Thank you. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Suppose the GT3 will be only PDK and the new DFI engine, and the GT3RS only manual and carry over the Metzger engine? Suppose the RS w/ its Metzger engine is the basis for Motorsport until such time that Porsche has sufficient confidence in the new engine (by racing both simultaneously) to retire the Metzger engine once and for all? 

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill

DaveC:

Suppose the RS w/ its Metzger engine is the basis for Motorsport until such time that Porsche has sufficient confidence in the new engine (by racing both simultaneously) to retire the Metzger engine once and for all? 

That would never happen because it would be much too wasteful of resources. (Manpower even more so than money). That you you'd risk not getting either of them to its optimum. 
You have to either believe in what you take to the circuit or you stay home until you do. 

fritz

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Then I think we can safely presume the Metzger engine has seen the end of its use in the 4.0?

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill

The Metzger and current DFI engines are fundamentally different - if the GT3 has PDK on offer, as the pics suggest, then this must surely be an evolution of the current PDK box. That box wouldn't fit a Metzger motor, and why would you commission a new gearbox for an old engine? Seems clear to me..

2011 987S, 1964 Type 1

fritz:

DaveC:

Suppose the RS w/ its Metzger engine is the basis for Motorsport until such time that Porsche has sufficient confidence in the new engine (by racing both simultaneously) to retire the Metzger engine once and for all? 

That would never happen because it would be much too wasteful of resources. (Manpower even more so than money). That you you'd risk not getting either of them to its optimum. 
You have to either believe in what you take to the circuit or you stay home until you do. 

My second sentence somehow got mangled. 

It should have read something along the lines:  "That would mean you'd risk not getting either of them to its optimum."

fritz

Another factor in the design of the new GT3 is that the 991 has moved the base 911 to a more refined place... potentially leaving some customers wanting a more sporting car (like some on RT have mentioned already).  If the 991 GT3 moves just a bit to the easier to drive direction, it could see many new sales, as the historic price difference is modest compared to say, the turbo.  IMO the older GT3 design missed many sales because the car was unnecessarily physically difficult to drive, especially the heavy shift and clutch weights.  PDK will solve this and open up a new audience who does not need to do daily weight training to drive the car. 

2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S

am I the only one suspecting that Porsche might have a installed a PDK-steering wheel in the GT3-mule, just to feed speculation? I can't imagine Porsche would not offer the GT3 without a manual gearbox available while the regular C2 and C2S got a newly developed 7-speed manual gearbox. The GT3 is still a car they are selling to a 'niche' of purists, you know: the kind that doesn't mind to have a prominent spoiler because it is functional. PDK is perfect for the majority of the clients who want things like comfort, full-leather interior, adaptive sportseats and rear seats for their children. (my apologies for using these stereotypes) Nevertheless I wouldn't be surprised if they would offer the PDK as an option on the GT3, but no manual? I would be surprised...

I find it highly unlikely they would install a PDK steering wheel as decoy. What is the point? To pretend they will offer more, then disappoint everyone with offering less... 

Just because one mule has a PDK steering wheel it does not mean the manual is gone. I rather believe they go down the Ferrari route now, continue to offer manual for at least one more generation, then it might be gone. I trust no one will miss it by that time 

997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, IPD Plenum, GT3 Throttle Body, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE, Alpine Head Unit and Amplifier, Focal Speakers