Crown

No one is asking for a risk taking Lambo-esque design . Just something a little more inspired. Making a smaller version of the same car is not very inspirational (for many).

 Audi (A4/6/8) and BMW (new 3/5/7) are very succesful with this strategy.

918 is (hopefully) a different story. But you should not take any risk at your cash cow

But the car doesn't even exist yet. How can it be a cash-cow?

I get what you are saying, and this discussion has been held before (I think about the 991 at the time).

Some of us are just a lttle more "adventurous" than others. It's all good.

ISUK:

At the moment Porsche design is fairly conservative due to their low annual production volumes. They need to protect residual values in order not to alienate buyers of new cars and that requires a gentle evolution approach to styling. They are currently building the sort of production numbers BMW were back in the 80's and look at how conservative BMW were then with each model redesign of their 4 car model range.

Once Porsche gets up to the region of 300,000 plus cars per annum then you can expect to see more radical designs as they will be chasing a much different and more fashion conscious/fickle customer who is neither particularly brand loyal nor really interested in the engineering beneath the outer skin. Witness the styling direction changes at Audi, BMW and Merceds as production volumes rose as evidence of this response to a different target customer.

 I would not call it the Porsche design necessarily conservative. The Panamera design, I find it very courageous and progressive (good? I do not know).

At BMW, Audi and Mercedes, I think the design of the main lines (A4/6/8, 3/5/7, C / E / S) is also always very similar. For the less important products (money, not image) as R8/SLS/6GC you are allowed to take more risks

Spyderidol:

Porsche have done it before. Look at how fresh, new and unusual the 901/911 design was when it hit the market.

Take another good look at the 901 vs its predecessor the 356. It's pretty clear that the styling was an evolution rather than a revolution

Production volumes are only headed one way whether we like it or not I'm afraid. The Macan will probably outstrip the Cayenne by a sales factor of two to one I would guestimate and the back on again 550 roadster will open up far greater sales at the bottom of the sports car range. Add in the Pajun 5 series competitor and it's easy to see Porsche annual volumes rising extremely quickly.

Itsme:

 I would not call it the Porsche design necessarily conservative. The Panamera design, I find it very courageous and progressive (good? I do not know).

Apologies, I didn't mean to infer that Porsche were being conservative rather I meant that they were transposing their 911 design language onto their other products to create a "Porsche" design language hence why the various models share very common styling cues, not radically different designs. The 981 shows they have started to gain the confidence to begin a process of differentiation but that car is into it's third generation so it is more established in the market. With the Macan they will want to keep a Cayenne inspired styling link as the larger car has proven to be a hit especially in it's latest form. To deviate radically away from that recipe would be a sales risk for what should be a high volume model.

The Panamera was a different proposition as they were trying to integrate a 911 look onto a much larger car but with much lower sales volume projections. To have simply produced a conventional 3 box saloon would have been a mistake and their decision to stay with the hatch has been vindicated by much better than planned sales. Even RC is getting one in spite of not originally being a fan of the styling

ISUK:

Spyderidol:

Porsche have done it before. Look at how fresh, new and unusual the 901/911 design was when it hit the market.

 

Take another good look at the 901 vs its predecessor the 356. It's pretty clear that the styling was an evolution rather than a revolution

Production volumes are only headed one way whether we like it or not I'm afraid. The Macan will probably outstrip the Cayenne by a sales factor of two to one I would guestimate and the back on again 550 roadster will open up far greater sales at the bottom of the sports car range. Add in the Pajun 5 series competitor and it's easy to see Porsche annual volumes rising extremely quickly.

But again we are experiencing the same problem of communication: No one is asking for a revolution in design. We are asking for some inspiration. Look at how much more modern the 911 looks. Why could they not do the same thing with the McCann?

The Macan needs to follow a certain design philosophy in the Porsche model family. People need to be able to immediately identify it as a Porsche, there is no error margin here for a completely new model.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Here is what I mean:

Same design philosophy.

RC:

The Macan needs to follow a certain design philosophy in the Porsche model family. People need to be able to immediately identify it as a Porsche, there is no error margin here for a completely new model.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

... then Porsche should not talk about launching new models. It would be more honest to call it a variant of the Cayenne, give is a designation like Cayenne Junior (or some other common denomination currently used) and be done with it. Less marketing required, less design required (not that they spent too much time on this one) and less expected  by some with a more critical voice.

I think they want both things, they want a new different vehicle so they can attract ore customers that would not otherwise go for a Cayenne and also widen their target population, and at the same time they want it to be recognised inmediately as a Porsche so as to capitalize on the Porsche image for its sales (many prospective buyers will buy it over a BMW or Audi ust because of the badge), and they way to give it that Porsche image is to make it resemble the Cayenne's cues as much as posible since it has already associated itself with Porsche image in the people's eyes over the years. Its really no different than what Audi did with the Q7 and the Q5.

OK - They can build as many McCann's that they want (and make it look as un-inspirational as they like) as long as they build this: A rendering of the rumored future "FeFi" (960)

ISUK:

Spyderidol:

Porsche have done it before. Look at how fresh, new and unusual the 901/911 design was when it hit the market.

Take another good look at the 901 vs its predecessor the 356. It's pretty clear that the styling was an evolution rather than a revolution

Yes and no. The 901 was, in its overall layout and design references, definitely an evolution of the 356. There is one critical difference though, which does not come across properly on these pictures due to the wide-angle shot, in the way lines and surfaces are described. The 901 introduced a well-balanced mixture of organic and geometrical elements whereas the 356 was dominated by organic shapes and surfaces (as any other car of the 50ies did in fact). Porsche could not afford to retool production on a high frequency back then and therefore not only featured a very clean and enduring design but themes and proportions that were less linked to fashion of their time period. I´m afraid though that these times will be over.

The Macan will be based on an existing chassis and therefore the aesthetically differences are, just as on the Cayenne, limited. On an independent model such as the Panamera the proportions themselves are very different to the competition. The side profile looks interesting, it might provide enough differentiation in comparison to other brands as well as the Cayenne.

On a general side note though, since I read through most of this thread again now, some seem to forget the Porsche of the past and focus on some highlights only. Wasn´t it Volkswagen that they developed the 924/944 and, since the project was ditched, subsequently produced them on their own? Didn´t the 944 have better acceleration and handling than the regular Carrera of that time period? What Porsche made famous and well-known was their engineering talent  (considering all aspects of development) that was displayed in their cars. 

Spyderidol:

OK - They can build as many McCann's that they want (and make it look as un-inspirational as they like) as long as they build this: A rendering of the rumored future "FeFi" (960)

that looks a bit Ferrar-ish - but I like it A LOT !

Spyderidol:

OK - They can build as many McCann's that they want (and make it look as un-inspirational as they like) as long as they build this: A rendering of the rumored future "FeFi" (960)

 

 Looks like a Cayman had unprotected sexual intercourse on a holiday trip south of the Alps. As a parent I wouldn't be happy with the result

Would you rather have the McCann?

See? We have very different tastes.

Will there be a Macan GTS or Macan R at launch next year?

Ferdie:

Yes and no. The 901 was, in its overall layout and design references, definitely an evolution of the 356. There is one critical difference though, which does not come across properly on these pictures due to the wide-angle shot, in the way lines and surfaces are described. The 901 introduced a well-balanced mixture of organic and geometrical elements whereas the 356 was dominated by organic shapes and surfaces (as any other car of the 50ies did in fact). Porsche could not afford to retool production on a high frequency back then and therefore not only featured a very clean and enduring design but themes and proportions that were less linked to fashion of their time period. I´m afraid though that these times will be over.

You are quite right Ferdie in that the switch to 901 involved a significant revision of the volumetric shapes from the 356 but the lineage is still clearly recognizable which is the point I was making. It wasn't Porsche's "Miura" moment where the design was radically revised. That came the following decade with the 924 and 928 models but it was the stubborness of the core Porsche buyers of the 90's that saw the newer design consigned to history whilst the 911 marched on. It's therefore understable to see why Porsche are now so reluctant to move away from their core styling signatures hence why the Macan will not offer a radical styling departure in the way that the Lamborghini Urus does in the SUV sector. It is simply too great a risk at this point in the company's model development plan.

We all need to remember that whilst some long time enthusiasts of the brand may crave something different in terms of styling, most of the buyers of the Macan will be new to Porsche and will be looking for a car that resolutely carries a traditional Porsche look.

superfans:

Will there be a Macan GTS or Macan R at launch next year?

Following Porsche's model policy over the past couple of years, what do you think? 

According to rumors, there will be three models available from day one, maybe four

No word whatsoever on a GTS or R.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

ISUK:

Ferdie:

Yes and no. The 901 was, in its overall layout and design references, definitely an evolution of the 356. There is one critical difference though, which does not come across properly on these pictures due to the wide-angle shot, in the way lines and surfaces are described. The 901 introduced a well-balanced mixture of organic and geometrical elements whereas the 356 was dominated by organic shapes and surfaces (as any other car of the 50ies did in fact). Porsche could not afford to retool production on a high frequency back then and therefore not only featured a very clean and enduring design but themes and proportions that were less linked to fashion of their time period. I´m afraid though that these times will be over.

 

You are quite right Ferdie in that the switch to 901 involved a significant revision of the volumetric shapes from the 356 but the lineage is still clearly recognizable which is the point I was making. It wasn't Porsche's "Miura" moment where the design was radically revised. That came the following decade with the 924 and 928 models but it was the stubborness of the core Porsche buyers of the 90's that saw the newer design consigned to history whilst the 911 marched on. It's therefore understable to see why Porsche are now so reluctant to move away from their core styling signatures hence why the Macan will not offer a radical styling departure in the way that the Lamborghini Urus does in the SUV sector. It is simply too great a risk at this point in the company's model development plan.

We all need to remember that whilst some long time enthusiasts of the brand may crave something different in terms of styling, most of the buyers of the Macan will be new to Porsche and will be looking for a car that resolutely carries a traditional Porsche look.

But ISUK, the McCann photos we have seen does not only show a reluctance of Porsche moving away from their core styling signature (and no one has suggested this); It is essentially the SAME car!

That is my point.  (which I am having a very hard time trying to get across). No one is suggesting that they throw out their styling signatures. It's building the almost exact same car (but smaller), giving it another name (and an odd one at that), putting in a smaller engine and calling it a new model that is grating to some peoples nerves.

Spyderidol:

Would you rather have the McCann?

See? We have very different tastes.

 I really like the interior (!!) and exterior of the Cayenne, with the exception of the rear view. The side view of the Macan I like even more. Perhaps the Macan will replace our second car (VW Tiguan, used less than 5000km each year by my wife, she uses public transport or bicyle to go to work because it is faster in Munich). So at least one match in the target group.

A 960 with a "more Porsche design" could be an interesting car for me. I always had the Boxster because I really do not like the 911 (996/997) Cabriolet (hump). The 991 Cab is better (my taste). A GT3 would be a dream, but it is not the right car to visit your customer and I have only one or two days at the N'ring each yeach. But I need a new car early 2013, so the 960 is no option although I like the idea of a more serious car.

But I love the fact that we all have different tastes. If we had all the silver 911 (no offense) there would be nothing to discuss.

We haven't seen the headlight treatment as yet but know from the design sketch that the rear lights are certainly a departure from the Cayenne. The roof line is very different and more fastback/coupe like. Like RC said in an earlier post it was never going to be a radical design. It was always going to be Porsche's version of the Q7 to Q5 styling differences. Smaller, slightly sportier and less utilitarian in terms of it's overall look.

I doubt you will think it is the same car as a Cayenne when you have seen one in the metal. Photo's are very two dimensional and it's easy to miss styling nuances on them.

Please don't get me wrong Itsme.; I am sure it will be an excellent car, and a very good substitution choice for your wife's Tiguan!

My taking exception to this is illustrated in the following example below:

Porsche Panamera:

Porsche Pajun:

ISUK:

We haven't seen the headlight treatment as yet but know from the design sketch that the rear lights are certainly a departure from the Cayenne. The roof line is very different and more fastback/coupe like. Like RC said in an earlier post it was never going to be a radical design. It was always going to be Porsche's version of the Q7 to Q5 styling differences. Smaller, slightly sportier and less utilitarian in terms of it's overall look.

I doubt you will think it is the same car as a Cayenne when you have seen one in the metal. Photo's are very two dimensional and it's easy to miss styling nuances on them.

 

Here we are in complete agreement. I do hope that it really does evolve into something quite different. (although unfortunately I still remember those first pictures of the Panamera mule, and how we thought it was all going to turn out soooo different. Misha even had a cacoon theory )

Lets see what happens

Tell the Porsche design team they can book their summer holidays early...... I've done the Pajun for them

ISUK:

We haven't seen the headlight treatment as yet but know from the design sketch that the rear lights are certainly a departure from the Cayenne. The roof line is very different and more fastback/coupe like. Like RC said in an earlier post it was never going to be a radical design. It was always going to be Porsche's version of the Q7 to Q5 styling differences. Smaller, slightly sportier and less utilitarian in terms of it's overall look.

I doubt you will think it is the same car as a Cayenne when you have seen one in the metal. Photo's are very two dimensional and it's easy to miss styling nuances on them.

 

Exactly!   The spy photos and released sketches show enough differences from the Cayenne.  The Macan will have its own distinctive personality, while still sharing enough similarities with the Cayenne to establish that it is from the same family.  Continuity of design is a great Porsche strength and I would not expect anything less.  Personally, I like what I see in the spy photos.  I think the slope of the roofline is just about right, not too much, not too little.    

Yes! ..and what's more; It will look nothing like the sketch!

RC:

superfans:

Will there be a Macan GTS or Macan R at launch next year?

Following Porsche's model policy over the past couple of years, what do you think? 

According to rumors, there will be three models available from day one, maybe four

No word whatsoever on a GTS or R.

 when is the Macan Turbo available?

Still my all time dissapointment between concept sketch and the real thing later brought to market has to be this Oct 2003 Ken Okuyama rendering of the upcoming model year 2004 Ferrari 612 Scaglietti , which the blogosphere drooled over :

I think Zagato must have seen that sketch and decided to plagiarise it. It's now the AC 378GT Zagato.

Spyder  ,  Porsche is teasing / spinning /  us with camouflage made in Cayenne style  -  kind of  ' cocoon '       This car will be  ' young & funky '   compared to Cayenne .