Crown

New option "soft close doors" available...available autumn/winter 2012 in Germany (which also is a good indicator that the facelift will not come this year ). 

According to our sources, this option actually pulls doors into a closed position automatically, no need to slam them anymore. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Oh no the quality clack is gone.... I wouldn't opt for that to save my life.

Faceift - early 2013?

artur777:

Faceift - early 2013?

Facelift should be announced end of this year with a spring 2013 introduction.

Facelift will be not substantial (only front lights, rear lights and some minor front/rear bumper changes) since the next generation is planned for 2015. No, the facelifted Panamera will not look like the new 991 but it will introduce some slightly new design elements from future models. 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

New option "soft close doors" available...available autumn/winter 2012 in Germany (which also is a good indicator that the facelift will not come this year ). 

According to our sources, this option actually pulls doors into a closed position automatically, no need to slam them anymore. 

Who wants an option like that in a Porsche   All these extras increase weight. Maybe these options are useful for very old or handicapped people. But for most buyers this option should really be an absolute no-go...

MKSGR:

RC:

New option "soft close doors" available...available autumn/winter 2012 in Germany (which also is a good indicator that the facelift will not come this year ). 

According to our sources, this option actually pulls doors into a closed position automatically, no need to slam them anymore. 

Who wants an option like that in a Porsche   All these extras increase weight. Maybe these options are useful for very old or handicapped people. But for most buyers this option should really be an absolute no-go...

Well, perhaps the Panamera is targeted at very old or handicapped people.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Rossi:

MKSGR:

RC:

New option "soft close doors" available...available autumn/winter 2012 in Germany (which also is a good indicator that the facelift will not come this year ). 

According to our sources, this option actually pulls doors into a closed position automatically, no need to slam them anymore. 

Who wants an option like that in a Porsche   All these extras increase weight. Maybe these options are useful for very old or handicapped people. But for most buyers this option should really be an absolute no-go...

Well, perhaps the Panamera is targeted at very old or handicapped people.

Heated steering wheel + auto closing doors + special bag for toilet paper supplies 

Don't knock it guys. One day, if we are lucky, we will be old as well and possibly value such options above rock hard suspension and razor sharp throttle response

My dad is a fairly youthful 80 year old and bought a Panamera last September after being a 7 series owner for many years. He loves the Porsche and would have had the soft close doors had they been an option as he had them on most of his 7s.

Here is his car on collection day.

ISUK:
After five 7 series in a row he decided to have a change Conny and really liked the design of the Panamera. He finds it a very comfortable car to drive.

Well I can understand him very well. The Panamera is even designwise fare better than often supossed. In twenty years the design will be considered as a work of art of its time. I wish your father all the best and a lot of fun with his new car.
I would be glad if I would be able to drive a fine Porsche with this age. In 30 years I will know it....

Well BMW is considering a performance M 7er to get you back as a customer

MKSGR:

RC:

New option "soft close doors" available...available autumn/winter 2012 in Germany (which also is a good indicator that the facelift will not come this year ). 

According to our sources, this option actually pulls doors into a closed position automatically, no need to slam them anymore. 

Who wants an option like that in a Porsche   All these extras increase weight. Maybe these options are useful for very old or handicapped people. But for most buyers this option should really be an absolute no-go...

Markus, Porsche wants to give people options. The Panamera is no sports car, even if it sometimes feels and drives like one, I'm fully aware of it. I'm also pretty sure that I am not the target audience for the Panamera, not even for the Turbo S. Most Panamera drivers I met are over 50...most of them more likely in their 60s. The reason is simple: The Panamera is pretty expensive and younger wealthy people usually want to fulfill their Porsche dream with a...911.

I have no choice. I can turn my back on Porsche and go for a M5/M6 (I hate the engine/exhaust sound and the lack of AWD is a problem for me) or an Audi RS6 but I love Porsche and while I'm not a 100% friend of the Panamera design, it is still a Porsche, actually more of a Porsche than the Cayenne because Porsche didn't have to make compromises due to the involvement of VW development money. The Panamera was actually the first major development project for Porsche after the 996 and the Boxster development.

Yes, Porsche made a couple of mistakes regarding weight. The Panamera should be overall 100-150 kg lighter than it is now but I guess Porsche wasn't even sure about the success, so they didn't bother to work on reducing weight and thus reducing profit too. The second generation will have a weight reduction, I'm pretty sure about it. Don't expect wonders though, 100 kg less should be considered and achievement, especiallly since engine power should remain almost the same. Apparently making the cars "greener" is a top priority because of future emissions laws and of course because of possible bad press.

That said, people have a choice when ordering a Panamera: I didn't order the automatic rear hatch and I left away the adaptive cruise control. I don't really need this stuff and it only adds weight, even if it doesn't really matter on such a heavy car. With a family, choices are limited regarding fast cars. The Ferrari FF would have been a nice alternative but I just can't afford it from various points of view.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

 

That said, people have a choice when ordering a Panamera: I didn't order the automatic rear hatch and I left away the adaptive cruise control. I don't really need this stuff and it only adds weight, even if it doesn't really matter on such a heavy car. With a family, choices are limited regarding fast cars.

I am sure you will like the Panamera a lot  I agree, the design is not perfect - however, after you entered the car it is simply the benchmark in the high-performance sedan sector (in terms of driver involvement and driving pleasure)  The recent SportAuto test demonstrates that quite clearly. Of course, a 911 is more agile, more direct. But then: the Panamera offers other advantages 

I have this option since almost 10 years on the BMWs I had in that period. I like it a lot as you really can smoothly close the doors. Same with the adaptive cruise - I wouldnt buy any car anymore without it, not even a 911. Sooner or later you go for a tour with your car and this thing is not only comfortable its also a huge improvement to saftey (especially if you are on the phone and the car "watches" you and the surrounding in that time).

Hearing that those things are to heavy I get a huge laugh. Come on, we are talking about max of 1kg additional weight! Guys - most of us have 1kg weight difference on a daily base. Further on - 1kg difference, think about an full or empty tank - there we have 50kg difference. And last not least - I can fell even different weather conditions in my cars performance. So, this argument that all the comfort options are to heavy just doesn't count!

Adaptive cruise alone is more than 10 kg as far as I heard. The automatic hatch adds 5 kg or so... Don't underestimate the weight of options, even leather options add weight and a lot too.

I agree though...maybe we should start with us dieting and then the car.

Adaptive cruise...I can't really do anything with it, I'm glad I didn't order it. I have it, unvoluntarily, on my C63 AMG Coupe and it really sucks. Why would I want to drive behind some other car at a constant speed, especially since most drivers tend to go under the speed limit and then over and then under and so on. I hate that. I prefer the ordinary cruise control when there is a speed limit and when there isn't...well... Same goes to the speed limit reading camera system. What for? If I don't pay attention to speed limits myself, I suck as a driver.

The only comfort feature I like on my C63 AMG Coupe is the...HOLD function. When stopping at a stop light, I can take my foot away from the brake, which can be very comfortable if you have to wait minutes at a red light.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

I have no choice. I can turn my back on Porsche and go for a M5/M6 (I hate the engine/exhaust sound and the lack of AWD is a problem for me) or an Audi RS6 but I love Porsche and while I'm not a 100% friend of the Panamera design, it is still a Porsche, actually more of a Porsche than the Cayenne because Porsche didn't have to make compromises due to the involvement of VW development money. The Panamera was actually the first major development project for Porsche after the 996 and the Boxster development.

And there's the clincher between my eternal battle between the Panamera and Cayenne. As near and dear as the 911 and Boxster/Cayman are to my heart, I have to upsize and my heart only says one thing: Porsche.

It's far from perfect, but I really love the Panamera. I can justify its premium due to it being a 100 percent Porsche as opposed to the Cayenne [although the only Cayennes that really count are the NA/turbo V8s ], but I was put off it due to its imminent facelift and the talk about its generation life being short. Deep down, I would've been bothered getting one now and then seeing a newer one rolling about in less than a year, so I held off it. What mix would you guys put the Cayenne at with regards to it being a Porsche or a VW? 60 Porsche/40 VW? 70/30?

The heart is a tricky thing to deal with.

rulesdontapply

The Cayenne is 100% Porsche but with influences from VW due to the development work. As far as I heard, VW paid 200 Mio. EUR to Porsche for the Touareg development, VW engineers were working close to Porsche engineers on this project but not directly in Weissach. The VW engineers rented a facility near Weissach for that purpose.

I don't know why so many people think that the Cayenne is a VW with Porsche badge, it is actually the other way around. The Touareg is a Porsche with VW badge. Porsche however used a lot of VW technology and parts to keep the price tag of both, the Touareg and the Cayenne, down. This is why many control units and other parts in the Cayenne have the VW logo on them.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

I don't know why so many people think that the Cayenne is a VW with Porsche badge, it is actually the other way around. The Touareg is a Porsche with VW badge. Porsche however used a lot of VW technology and parts to keep the price tag of both, the Touareg and the Cayenne, down. This is why many control units and other parts in the Cayenne have the VW logo on them.

Exactly what I thought. I have a few friends who mock V6 Cayennes as Porsche-branded Touaregs, which quickly makes me point out that they were in fact conceived and engineered by Porsche [VR6 engine aside]. My slight confusion has to do with how much VW was involved; I know they shared development costs and have some shared VW bits here and there, but that's about it.

One of my closest friends has a facelifted previous-generation Touareg; you should've seen the look on his face when I explained to him that he was essentially driving a VW-branded Cayenne - the Porsche-derived platform, shared body frame, doors, gearbox and engine components with the Cayenne V6 - totally made his day.

Thanks for the clarification, as always.

rulesdontapply

Hey Rossi-

It is... it's targeted toward the blind. 

Lars you are right!

I love the distronic, this morning on the way to Stuttgart airport 8 km traffic  jam. I could read and dictate emails my car was driving nealry alone. I would allways order the distronic.

AM
www.aldo-yachting.de

I only used distronic once on a 1000miles trip to Croatia using a Cayenne. I think it is maybe the best comfort feature you can buy. Much better than normal cruise control.

On my way back I used the costal route and for about 50km it was very hard to pass the cars in front of me. So the distronic speedlimiter setting I used was faster than the max possible speed for this street (lots of curves) and the distronic kept the distance to the car in front of me constant. Very relaxing.

And like ALDO said, if there is a traffic jam it is very helpful. I spent the easter weekend sailing in Holland with some guys. Their BMW 5xx has this feature. In a long stop and go period they used the distronic, the guy behind them without this feature wasn’t awake which resulted in the need to buy a new back bumper for the BMW.

Don’t get me wrong, I love going fast with full control with my Boxster. But sometimes (for example if you can’t pass the car in front of you) I would love to have this feature.

Porsche, can you hear me? (I think I saw a 911 (turbo?) mule with the distronic transmitter).

Supplement:

The system didn’t work flawless in tight corners (especially to the left) on the Autobahn. Sometimes the distronic catched the slower car on the right lane and slowed down.

ALDO:

Lars you are right!

I love the distronic, this morning on the way to Stuttgart airport 8 km traffic  jam. I could read and dictate emails my car was driving nealry alone. I would allways order the distronic.

Are you sure you don't want to reconsider and edit what you just wrote? 

Otherwise it could destroy my faith in you as a good and responsible driver. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Lars997:
The adaptive cruise isn't 10kg. My brother in law is responsible at Bosch for Automotive parts, he just asked on my behalf the development department and they said apprx 1,5 kg and this includes already the wiring. It a small box with the radar, and a control unit, further on they use the parking sensor for slow speed control.

The fact that customer are using the features a different way is kind of rectifying the long extra list, some love specific gadgets, others don't need them ;)


 

Distronic (Mercedes): Three (!) radar sensors...head unit...front mask (weights more because of the main Distronic cover and improvements to withstand wind force)...wiring...1.5 kg sounds kind of light in my opinion. Especially since your brother in law claims that it is only one small box with the radar. 

Regarding wiring: Just out of curiosity, what do you think the complete wiring (wiring harness) of a Panamera weights? 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

Regarding wiring: Just out of curiosity, what do you think the complete wiring (wiring harness) of a Panamera weights? 

Isn´t that exactly the point? These cars weight so much that a few additional options are indiscernible during driving. The radar modules indeed only weight a few hundred grams each, so Lars´ quote should be correct. The wiring in a car is heavy because of the choice and amount of materials used.

Well, I agree that the weight of additional options isn't really always important but even on a 2 ton car, 60-70 kg (wiring harness) are kind of important.  Same goes to leather: Full leather options can add up to 50 kg to a car... Ouch.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4