Crown

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17714223

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/business/race_is_on_to_ensure_group_lotus_stays_in_norfolk_1_1349005

Hi Gauss,

Is there any truth to Danny Bahar handing in his resingnation or being fired?

Moser

IMO if an investment company of any description buys Lotus, it will be no good. Investment managers and venture capitalists, unrelated to automobile manufacturing, have proven to be of no use to car companies. There have been many examples of that mismarriage.

What Lotus needs is a major manufacturer with up-to-date technology and manufacturing methods, modern engines and transmissions to complement Lotuses chassis and lightweight construction skills. Lotus should only hope that VW are still interested in such a buy-out or alternatively the Prime minister (since according to the above article is interested in the matter) convince Mr. Tata to buy Lotus and incorporate it into his JLR Group of British brands.

--

"Form follows function"

Moser:

Hi Gauss,

Is there any truth to Danny Bahar handing in his resingnation or being fired?

 

Moser

No, that was just false rumour (at least for now)

Here's a statement from Lotus Cars, posted on their facebook site http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1146106&l=da3676510f&id=135849009792886:

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story….

Take a little look at what we found online. Don’t you think it’s funny? We do. We had a good old giggle. After all, we love a bit of self irony, just as well really. Although it’s funny, this one’s not accurate but then again, why let the facts get in the way of a good story? The inconvenient truth is – surprise, surprise – we have never said that there are no problems at Lotus.

So whilst lots of people obviously feel the need to comment on Lotus’ current situation in the absence of proper facts or evidence, we can’t ignore these particular mistruths any longer even if we would like to, so we have decided to turn a negative into a positive and use this hilarious piece of ‘art’ to set the record straight regarding the status quo at Group Lotus and try to return a little stability to a fast changing situation.

False rumour #1: Dany Bahar is no longer CEO of Group Lotus.

Fact: Rubbish – Dany Bahar still is.

False rumour #2: Dato’ Sri Syed is no longer Managing Director of Proton.

Fact: Again rubbish. He still is.

You can thank good old Tony Fernandes for these two. Don’t take everything he tweets too seriously – perhaps he’s still frustrated about owning Caterham instead of Lotus and the fact that he fights HRT and Marussia instead of Mercedes and Ferrari in F1.

And whilst we’re on the subject of jokes – do you know the latest F1 joke? Mike Gascoyne, Caterham Group’s Chief Technical Officer, has gone missing. Why? He’s looking for the 30 to 40 points he predicted for the last F1 season. Funny.

Speaking of F1: It seems that one special so called ‘independent’ source is at the root of the lion’s share of damaging rumours and misleading stories. The delightful Joe Saward which leads us nicely to….

False rumour #3: Joe Saward is JUST an independent journalist.

Fact: He is an active Director for the Caterham Group.

And unlike some, we don’t want to get too personal, so we’ll leave it to you to judge how ‘independent’ his stories about Lotus are.

False rumour #4: Group Lotus is no longer involved in F1.

Fact: Lotus F1 Team and Group Lotus have reshaped their commercial relationship earlier this year. The new governance agreement signifies the continued commitment of Group Lotus to the team and the sport.

Group Lotus’ branding and marketing rights and subsequent activities remain unaffected by the new agreement until at least 2017. Alongside continued branding and title partnership status, Group Lotus is also the exclusive master licensee for all Lotus F1 Team merchandise.

The new agreement was reached following Group Lotus owners Proton providing team owners Genii with a £30m loan which is repayable within three years. In order to secure the loan Genii used 100% of the F1 team’s assets as collateral meaning that under the conditions of the loan agreement Proton have been given full title guarantee to all plant, machinery, show cars, computers, office and the Lotus F1 Team headquarters.

In addition Proton retains the rights to purchase 10% of the F1 team. Another 10% share option will be activated if the team default on their loan obligations with Proton.

Again we leave it to your judgement how ‘bad’ Lotus’ current situation in F1 is. And speaking of bad situations….

False rumour #5: Group Lotus is going into administration.

Fact: Rubbish. The takeover of our parent company Proton by DRB-HICOM couldn’t have come at a worse time, but up until that point Proton was (and still remains) fully committed to our five year business plan to create jobs and to expand the factory and business. With the takeover process the funding has been restricted and DRB-HICOM is taking time to understand what to do with the business. DRB-HICOM is currently in the middle of due diligence of Group Lotus and there have been and continue to be positive discussions between Group Lotus senior management and senior management at DRB-HICOM both here in Hethel and inMalaysia. At no point has DRB-HICOM indicated to Group Lotus that it intends to put the company into administration. The over-active rumour mill is seriously damaging our business reputation, image and credibility but it is what it is.

The simple fact is, and we haven’t denied this – Lotus is going through a very difficult phase at the moment but we are showing true fighting spirit every day in trying to keep this vision alive. This is also a fact – no matter what people outside of Lotus may say or tweet or blog.

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thanks gauss

So... do I understand it right that Proton is in trouble and not so much Lotus? 

Proton was a vanity project for the then Prime Minister of Malaysia, Dr Mahathir.

Proton has only ever used other manufacturers' (mostly Mitsubishi) technology. It doesn't make much, if any, profit. Without Malaysia's import tariffs, Proton would be even more of a basket case than it is now. Name a single decent Proton car that has been made -- there are none. All of them are crap. I know, my father had 2. Both utter rubbish.

Lotus managed to dazzle the twits at Proton to invest money Proton didn't really have into Bahar's fantasy of creating 5 new cars from scratch for a few hundred million £.

All involved were deluded and/or taking illicit substances.

We are now at the morning after the night before ...

It will end in tears.

Oh dear,

thanks for the explanation. That´s not what I expected. Coincidentally I just heard an interview with Tony Fernandez about his idea of acquiring Lotus and developing an somewhat affordable F1-derived sportscar with them. Obviously, he set out to do the same with Caterham now.

Now I also understand that, if I remember correctly, quite some staff moved from Lotus to Caterham a while ago to start the development of a new sportscar model there.

So what is the situation for Lotus now? Get sold to another manufacturer, returning to the single-model lineup or being able to continue the current development with money sourced somewhere else? On the one hand, the investment company might not look like the best option but Lotus (used to) offer great engineering resources that might be attractive to other manufacturers as well.

sfo = the Grinch   

they did make some dam nice prototypes that I believe would have made them a serious competitor.

Ferdie:

So what is the situation for Lotus now? Get sold to another manufacturer, returning to the single-model lineup or being able to continue the current development with money sourced somewhere else? On the one hand, the investment company might not look like the best option but Lotus (used to) offer great engineering resources that might be attractive to other manufacturers as well.

Only VW can save Lotus. I cannot see any other serious manufacturer willing and able to take over Lotus.

Combine VW's superb drivetrains with Lotus nimbleness and chassis engineering and make Lotus an affordable no nonsense sportscar company like it was in the 60 and early 70s. Bahar's vision of supercars and multiple models is sheer utopic fantasy IMO

VW could benefit a lot from Lotus too, from its expertise in certain areas.

--

"Form follows function"

sfo:

Lotus managed to dazzle the twits at Proton to invest money Proton didn't really have into Bahar's fantasy of creating 5 new cars from scratch for a few hundred million £.

All involved were deluded and/or taking illicit substances.

We are now at the morning after the night before ...

It will end in tears.

+1 to all that.  
It was very predictable that this train would hit the buffers sooner rather than later. If Lotus had concentrated on just two future models, one of them being a slightly more mature version of the Elise as its successor, it would have been a much more sustainable path. The over-ambitious plans revealed last year would have undermined the credibility of the management in the eyes of any potential suitors who understand the auto industry. 

Being absorbed by VW would probably not be a good solution, because I suspect that the Lotus "philosophy" would very quickly get watered down and then lost for all time in that constellation. Hard to see any suitable "white knights" who could ride to Lotus' rescue at the moment. It's a shame.  

fritz

fritz:

Being absorbed by VW would probably not be a good solution, because I suspect that the Lotus "philosophy" would very quickly get watered down and then lost for all time in that constellation. Hard to see any suitable "white knights" who could ride to Lotus' rescue at the moment. It's a shame.  

If not VW (although IMO VW know where to draw the line between preserving tradition and integrating the acquired brands e.g. Lamborghini and Bentley) then only JLR could take over and preserve Lotus (their finances permitting).

"Form follows function"

reginos:

fritz:

Being absorbed by VW would probably not be a good solution, because I suspect that the Lotus "philosophy" would very quickly get watered down and then lost for all time in that constellation. Hard to see any suitable "white knights" who could ride to Lotus' rescue at the moment. It's a shame.  

If not VW (although IMO VW know where to draw the line between preserving tradition and integrating the acquired brands e.g. Lamborghini and Bentley) then only JLR could take over and preserve Lotus (their finances permitting).

Funnily enough, Jaguar Land-Rover did come to my mind as well, not just because of the "British" connection, but because JLR is currently on a roll with good export sales and probably flush with cash. Parent company Tata also appears to be doing well and is investing billions into its steel production interests in the UK.

Aston Martin and Lotus might fit together well in terms of technology (both use aluminium platforms) but AM probably has enough financial difficulties of its own, and doesn't have the "critical mass" to be seen as a long-term solution. 

fritz

Lotus needs a sugar daddy .. not many of those around.

sfo:

Lotus needs a sugar daddy .. not many of those around.

If only it were that simple. Lotus' sugar daddy also needs to be able to bring some kind of background in the auto industry to the game. It can't be just a financier with deep pockets and no understanding of the business. 

fritz

a financier with no understanding of the business would never put money in unless they were reckless

sfo:

a financier with no understanding of the business would never put money in unless they were reckless

The history of the auto industry is littered with stories of people who invested in car companies only to find they were throwing their money into a bottomless pit, so it wouldn't be the first time that someone was reckless.  
To stay close to (Lotus') home, just look at the British government's investment in de Lorean, aided and abetted by Colin Chapman. 
--

fritz

fritz:

The history of the auto industry is littered with stories of people who invested in car companies only to find they were throwing their money into a bottomless pit, so it wouldn't be the first time that someone was reckless. 

To stay close to (Lotus') home, just look at the British government's investment in de Lorean, aided and abetted by Colin Chapman. 
--

fritz

these were not financiers, they were rich kids or bureaucrats

sfo:

fritz:

The history of the auto industry is littered with stories of people who invested in car companies only to find they were throwing their money into a bottomless pit, so it wouldn't be the first time that someone was reckless. 

To stay close to (Lotus') home, just look at the British government's investment in de Lorean, aided and abetted by Colin Chapman. 
--

fritz

these were not financiers, they were rich kids or bureaucrats

Got you now.   I was using the term "financier" loosely to mean anyone providing finances for the venture, and not necessarily for a "professional" financier in the stricter sense who could be expected to do extensive "due diligence" before jumping in with both feet. There have been plenty of examples of presumably hard-nosed businessmen, not just rich kids or bureaucrats playing with other peoples' money, who have burned their fingers in this business.
Names like Tucker and David Brown spring to mind. Elon Musk could be another at some time in the future, but he has got others (including bureaucrats) to risk money alongside his own in his automotive venture, thereby possibly diluting his risk. 

You may know the old saying "The only way to make a small fortune building cars is to start with a big one".  

fritz

Maybe Ford should buy Lotus.

Ford has the motors, gearboxes and other components that would mate well with a Lotus street car. It would also give Ford dealers something more to sell, hopefully thereby more Lotus sales via greater sales outlets and give Ford another angle in motorsports. Perhaps with Fords sales distribution and their cost scale for engines, gearboxes and components a Lotus might actually be........... profitable!

Ford ownership of Lotus would be a substantially different business and engineering support proposition than their ownership of Volvo and Jaguar was.

For this bit of brilliant advice I will send Ford HQ a bill.

fritz:

"The only way to make a small fortune building cars is to start with a big one".  

 so funny, and so true.

bit like airlines!

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/282088/exclusive_dany_bahar_interview.html

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Industry-News/CAR-interviews-Dany-Bahar-Lotus-CEO-on-those-rumours-2012/?content-block=0

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UK Premier urges Malaysian owners to keep Lotus cars in UK ‎:

http://europe.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120418/ANE/304189879#ixzz1sbcNa2c4

PRESS RELEASE For Immediate Release : DRB-HICOM has not decided to sell Lotus Group

http://community.evo.co.uk/users/Harry-Metcalfe/blogs/index.cfm/2012/4/19/Harry-Metcalfe-Inside-Lotus-UPDATE

KUALA LUMPUR, 21 April 2012 - Following numerous reports in the media on Lotus Group International Limited (Lotus Group), a wholly-owned subsidiary of PROTON Holdings Berhad (PROTON), DRB-HICOM Berhad (DRB-HICOM) as the new owner of PROTON would like to clarify some important matters.

DRB-HICOM is currently undertaking an operations audit on Lotus Group, as part of its governance exercise. Contrary to reports that Lotus Group would be put under administration, DRB-HICOM is still supporting Lotus Group, both financially and management wise.

DRB-HICOM has not decided to sell Lotus Group and do not know the source of the speculation about selling Lotus Group to a Chinese party i.e Youngman. As of today, DRB-HICOM has identified one of PROTON’s Senior Management personnel to take up a position in Lotus Group in an effort to strengthen its management.

- End -

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http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2012-04-21/owners-of-lotus-group-appoint-new-manager/

Car maker Lotus in talks on sale to China, MP reveals

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17834710

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Lotus to restore full car production

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/262480/

'We won't sell Lotus' says new owner

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/262768/