Crown

Hi Guys,

A few days ago I pulled the trigger on a 2008 C63 AMG. The Car is in a perfect condition, has/(had ) 47000 km, and is actually fully loaded, expect of some nice Performance Parts, unfortunately. Mostly I miss the LSD, but I may retrofit later. I was looking after a c63 for many weeks already, and finally I found one that suits my taste perfectly. Over here, in Austria, the market of used C63 is very limited tough.

My Impressions after 4 days: I never drove a Mercedes before that awakes so many emotions, and is so engaging. (ok, didnt drove the SLS yet) This car is pure Sex!  Ehhmmm.... and the sound is also......... OK. 

some pics...

Congrats with your new monster, looks terrific!

hehehe...that makes 3 of us now.....congrats !

Perfect colour combination for that car. Enjoy!

Welcome...very nice choice (why would I say that ? ), congratulations !

A few remarks though: The LSD is a must on this car, retrofit is quite expensive (close to 3500 EUR last time I checked).

The performance package is also pretty helpful since it not only includes more power but also a sportier chassis on 2008 cars as far as I remember. Not sure if the performance package was available at that time though.

I don't know how much you paid for the car but when I looked for a C63 Coupe, I was also checking on used C63 sedans and I found one with less than 20k km, incl. performance package and driver's package, a 2012 car, for less than 60k EUR. I also found a C63 sedan with performance package, 2010 I think, less than 20k km for 49k EUR. Both cars sold through official Mercedes dealers, incl. used car warranty.

The C63 facelift also includes the MCT gearbox and the SLS-derived gearbox control unit (C, S, S+, M and RS), also some major interior improvements and of course chassis improvements.

Don't get me wrong, this is a great car but especially the lack of LSD will be a huge issue for you sooner or later. I had an E55 AMG without LSD and I drove only 2000 km before I retrofitted the LSD. Quite an expensive experience, I paid at that time almost 7k EUR for a LSD, a Vmax raise, a new steering wheel and a different automatic tranny software. The car also had to stay over a week at AMG in Affalterbach and I had to drive there twice forth and back, time is money, right ?!

A couple of tips for you I got from AMG pros while looking for the C63 Coupe I got:

1. Always warm up the engine as good as possible, the V8 6.2 l engine is very sensitive to cold temperatures

2. Removing/exchanging the center exhaust silencer, many do that to improve sound in a cheap manner, reduces engine power by around 30 horses, no kidding

3. If you want to improve the sound, the Superspring exhaust system with new 200 cell cats is the way to go, no power loss, even a slight power increase of up to 10 horses (with software adaptation up to 30 horses)

4. LSD needs a mandatory oil change at 3000 km, engine oil change should be done too at this point

5. Software only ECU upgrades (Brabus, etc.) work pretty well but power increase is usually in the 30 horses range, with sport exhaust and 200 cell cats, in the 40s, not the sometimes promised 50-60 horses

6. Repairs on the C63 can be "pricey", get a used car warranty if you buy it used (Mercedes dealers preferred)

7. The C63 is very sensitive to tire choices, especially regarding traction and sidegrip on the rear axle. Stick with the Mercedes AMG recommended tire sizes and types (Mercedes AMG uses "M" ratings, similar to the Porsche "N" rating), wider tires on the rear (summer and winter) are a disadvantage. Maximum tire size for rear axle is 255s (possible up to 265s but not recommended), for winter tires 225s. Caution: The LSD can be damaged with wrong tire/rim choices. Best choices (from experience) so far: Summer tires Conti 5 P and Winter tires Conti TS810S, both available in M0 configuration. Avoid Yokohamas, which are often used for the C63.

Have fun with your car and get that LSD retrofitted as soon as possible. You won't regret it. Unless you want new rear tires every couple of months...

Check out this .pdf file for the options you can retrofit on your car.

C63.pdf

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Oh, forgot to mention: A new C63 engine (exchange, engine itself, necessary work time, etc.) is aprox. 35k EUR, up to 38k EUR. Now you know why a warranty makes a lot of sense on this car. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Guys, thanks for all your kind wishes.

@RC: Thanks for all your tips.

Regarding the prices for 2^nd hand, unfortunately the prices you are talking about are not available over here, due to the big Tax difference. For such a car its more than 20%. And because of the fact that Germans is more than 10x bigger in Population, the used car market is also bigger. Of course more than 10x, since Germany is a car nuts land. So the Supply and Demand Factor effects the 2^nd hand market a well. A 2008 costs +/- 50k over here, a new one costs 105k good equipped, and 120k with all the goodies.

Regarding Warranty you are absolutely right. I would never buy such a car without it. And for info, my car has a 7 years Weksgarantie or up to 120k km (what you reach first). In Austria since 2007 all new Mercedes are coming with 4 Years Werksgarantie, and as an Option you can expand for maximum 7 Years and up to 180k km. So of course I was looking for a car that has the Mercedes Warranty. As you see, we don’t have only downsides over here.

As for mods, I am not planning any Tuning, only 2 things I will get done some time latter. LSD and maybe 280km/h limit. You can get LSD also for about 1k on this car, but this would be stupid, since I will loose the Warranty. So this 2 mods will be done by AMG, I am awaiting a quotation from my dealer, but you may be right with 3,5k. I also researched that before.

As for Sound. Are you serious? I would not change anything about it. Its just perfect as it is. Its even to loud, for those that want to be little stealthy. Inside of the cabin you actually don’t get the full sound, which is a good move by AMG. You have permanently a good level of sound and bass at low revs, and even when driving with higher revs, it doesn’t get annoying for wife and kids! I personally would never get annoyed by a good sound, no matter how load it is. The Music is running in low backround mode all the time, maybe I sell the Harman Kardon System . And If you want a higher dose of sound, just open the sunroof and the windows. And the full dose?! Well, step out of the car, and tell you wife to floor it. 

As for Tires, I was also researching bout it, I found some test by Autobild and Autozeitung, both say the Pirelli P Zeros are Nr 1.   Also, regarding Tires and LSD. most of the experiences say, that tire wear is higher with LSD on this car. Does make sense actually. 

Thx for the PDF, very useful. 

RC...don't check USA prices.....you might puke

as for altering the sound....why would anyone do that ? it sounds just perfect.

not too loud and not too showy (prollig).....just right imo.

Was out for a ride today, the scenery is just amazing at this time of the Year. And the road conditions also allow allot of drifting fun. 

Attached some pics I took with my Iphone 5, playing little bit with Panorma Mode. Just figured out that you can get some very nice Fisheye effects. 

Amazing scenery, the c looks great too. You haven't had any problems with it since you bought it? 

Thanks man. So far so good, no problems at all. 

Nice photos, thanks. Same here, no issues but I have to get the winter wheels mounted...and Service A done.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Great surroundings for car and colour - glad you're enjoying trouble-free motoring...

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"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

Thanks Guys. Some more pictures edited to add some drama. 

This "drama" is actually the reason I don't enjoy my C63 Coupe as much as I had in the past. Traction, especially when wet or slightly wet, is horrible and while this can be a lot of fun on weekends or when you just want to have this kind of fun, it gets pretty tiresome if you use the C63 as a daily driver.

I kind of hate to say it but I should have gone for that used Cayenne Turbo I got offered for slightly more money. Not the same fun factor but the better daily driver.

Right now I am thinking of getting the new A45 AMG with AWD instead as a daily driver or maybe a Cayenne GTS with low mileage, not sure yet.

Yes, the C63 AMG is lots of fun, the sound is amazing but as a daily driver, especially when the temperatures are low and/or the streets are slightly wet or wet, the fun is gone. 

Maybe I got too spoiled by the Panamera Turbo S (or my former 997 Turbo) but I just realized that I will never ever again buy a non-AWD car as a daily driver in Germany.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I actully don't like 4WD cars at all. Of course you get better acceleration under wet pavement, but I find 4wd cars much less involving as RWD. This is part of the game to accelerate the car in straight line and out of corners without loosing traction. As said, this is much more involving to drive and its just fun. The C63 has allot of power that needs to be handled, and this makes the car so special for me, its a great toy if you want to. But you can anytime put the Gearbox into C (ComfortI) and leave ESP on, and you will be 100% Safe and under normal daily driving conditions you will bearly see the ESP lamp going on. The Sound at least is always present. 

Of course driving this car under snowy pavement is no fun (well ok maybe fun, but not efficient ;-) ), like every RWD car  specialy Mercedes, but you can lower tire pressure a little bit, and put something heavy into the Trunk. But in Vienna you can count the days per year with snow on the roads on one or two hands, often enough we dont have snow at all, so its not a big issue overe here. In areas with allot of Snow, I would have tought about a SUV (or at least an AWD) for those conditons as a second car, but would have kept a real RWD for the "normal" days. 

To each his own of course, but for me its not about how fast you get there, the question is if you got there with smile on the face or not.  

Avoe:

I actully don't like 4WD cars at all. Of course you get better acceleration under wet pavement, but I find 4wd cars much less involving as RWD. This is part of the game to accelerate the car in straight line and out of corners without loosing traction. As said, this is much more involving to drive and its just fun. 

I would actually agree with you, this was one of the reasons I bought the C63 Coupe but when you are tired or just need to get from point A to point B as fast as possible on a daily basis, the traction issues get tiresome fast.

If you think 4WD is less involving, try harder. I can go sideways in my Panamera Turbo S as much as I like when I turn PSM off and activate Sport Chrono Plus but the thing is, I usually don't want to, I just want to be as fast as possible. Of course the C63 is involving, it is actually a car which isn't quite suitable for beginners and this makes it fun to drive but only when there are no other cars around I'm afraid. With winter tires, things are even worse, traction is almost sub-par, I always carry two 20 kg sacks of sand in the trunk to make sure the rear doesn't get stuck. 

Thanks god AMG will offer AWD on the next C63 AMG generation, at least optional.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I guess you mean, thanks god its optional and not standard. I fully agree! 

But this would be a smart move, since this way they would cover a bigger costumer base. I always say, some car maker should finally bring a wheel drive system, where you can choose, between 2wd and 4wd by hitting a button. This would make the perfect daily driver for all year and all condtions. Technicaly this is possible for sure, the only questions remains, why we dont see it in the Ms and AMGs or even Porsches? Permament awd doesnt make any sense under good/perfect conditions, it only burns gas and changes the steering characteristics. 

The E63 AMG gets AWD with the facelift and as far as I heard, not optional. Now we can argue about this all day long but fact is, the traction will be hugely improved and once the people see the performance gain...well... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

the traction will be hugely improved and once the people see the performance gain...well... 

Only under inclement conditions. Otherwise it's a disadvantage really.

REALZEUS:

RC:

the traction will be hugely improved and once the people see the performance gain...well... 

Only under inclement conditions. Otherwise it's a disadvantage really.

 

Yes, the Panamera Turbo S and the new M5 are a very good example for that.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

REALZEUS:

RC:

the traction will be hugely improved and once the people see the performance gain...well... 

Only under inclement conditions. Otherwise it's a disadvantage really.

 

Yes, the Panamera Turbo S and the new M5 are a very good example for that.  

Imagine a RWD Panamera Turbo! 

REALZEUS:

RC:

REALZEUS:

RC:

the traction will be hugely improved and once the people see the performance gain...well... 

Only under inclement conditions. Otherwise it's a disadvantage really.

 

Yes, the Panamera Turbo S and the new M5 are a very good example for that.  

Imagine a RWD Panamera Turbo! 

This would be the dumbest thing ever...  One of the reasons the Panamera Turbo S beats the new M5 on the Nordschleife by a whopping 10 seconds or so is the AWD. Some people still tend to think that slipping is good. It isn't.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I didn't hear anyone complaining about the RWD GT2 RS though. All you need is good suspension set up and electronics. The weight and power loss penalty of a 4WD system is unwanted under fair conditions. 

REALZEUS:

I didn't hear anyone complaining about the RWD GT2 RS though. All you need is good suspension set up and electronics. The weight and power loss penalty of a 4WD system is unwanted under fair conditions. 

Either because they are dead or sold it.  On a more serious note: The GT2 RS is no toy, this is a serious weapon. Ask MKGSR, he owns one and it is a challenge to be fast in it. I wouldn't want to use this car on a daily basis, I have my weak moments too and everybody makes mistakes. This is where AWD comes in pretty nicely. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Hold your horses 

There is one force between the tire and the road surface, the tractional force. It acts in the horizontal plane where one axis represents lateral grip (or cornering grip) and the other axis represents longitudinal grip (or braking/accelerating grip). You can use all this force for braking/accelerating or all this force for cornering or a combination of both. The sum is however constant. Hence, if you brake or accelerate you have less cornering grip available. Why is this important?

Well, for an AWD car the front wheels are not only used for cornering grip, they are also used for accelerating grip. Hence, when you drive an AWD car on the limit and apply throttle, you have less cornering grip available on the front wheels than a RWD car where the front wheels are free rolling.

AWD is an advantage when the cornering grip is small and the front wheels apply accelerating grip. For example, starting from standstill in snow. It is not an advantage when driving on the limit on a race track. The car will be more prone to understeer and cannot follow the ideal (fast) line.

Ignoring the weight penalty, this is the reason why the GT2, GT3, etc. are RWD... and all other race cars for that matter (rally cars is a difference story because they are driven beyond the traction limit).

As one Porsche instructor once put it at a PSDS course when asked about RWD versus AWD "I want my rear wheels to drive and my front wheels to steer" 

Hence I am not convinced about the statement that the Panamera is 10 seconds faster around the Ring than the M5 thanks to it's AWD. It is 10 seconds faster for other reasons and a RWD Panamera should be even faster.

...and the physics behind the above is usually not understood by people and hence the common misunderstanding is that AWD cars are safer because they always offer more traction. This is however only true for the accelerating grip, not for the cornering grip which in a AWD car can be less than a RWD car (assuming all other things equal).

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Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.

bluelines:

Hold your horses 

There is one force between the tire and the road surface, the tractional force. It acts in the horizontal plane where one axis represents lateral grip (or cornering grip) and the other axis represents longitudinal grip (or braking/accelerating grip). You can use all this force for braking/accelerating or all this force for cornering or a combination of both. The sum is however constant. Hence, if you brake or accelerate you have less cornering grip available. Why is this important?

Well, for an AWD car the front wheels are not only used for cornering grip, they are also used for accelerating grip. Hence, when you drive an AWD car on the limit and apply throttle, you have less cornering grip available on the front wheels than a RWD car where the front wheels are free rolling.

AWD is an advantage when the cornering grip is small and the front wheels apply accelerating grip. For example, starting from standstill in snow. It is not an advantage when driving on the limit on a race track. The car will be more prone to understeer and cannot follow the ideal (fast) line.

Ignoring the weight penalty, this is the reason why the GT2, GT3, etc. are RWD... and all other race cars for that matter (rally cars is a difference story because they are driven beyond the traction limit).

As one Porsche instructor once put it at a PSDS course when asked about RWD versus AWD "I want my rear wheels to drive and my front wheels to steer" 

Hence I am not convinced about the statement that the Panamera is 10 seconds faster around the Ring than the M5 thanks to it's AWD. It is 10 seconds faster for other reasons and a RWD Panamera should be even faster.

...and the physics behind the above is usually not understood by people and hence the common misunderstanding is that AWD cars are safer because they always offer more traction. This is however only true for the accelerating grip, not for the cornering grip which in a AWD car can be less than a RWD car (assuming all other things equal).

Well put. I said previously that a RWD Panamera would be quicker. Construcors know those things, hence they make their most sporty cars RWD.

bluelines:

Hence I am not convinced about the statement that the Panamera is 10 seconds faster around the Ring than the M5 thanks to it's AWD. It is 10 seconds faster for other reasons and a RWD Panamera should be even faster.

 

It is. Porsche actually uses the excessive weight of the Panamera combined with the AWD traction advantage for that achievement. Sport Auto has actually described it pretty well when they tested the PTS and were surprised about the track performance. Lots of electronics are involved in this process too.

You are comparing cars with much lower weight with cars with a much higher weight, huge mistake.

The lower the weight, the more the car benefits from RWD actually.

Take the Panamera S and 4S for example: The 4S is faster on the track under the same conditions. Best proof actually. 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

Take the Panamera S and 4S for example: The 4S is faster on the track under the same conditions. Best proof actually. 

Source?

Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.