mp:
Looks are subjective. But, I find it interesting how we seem to cut Porsche slack - by getting excited when they change the tail lights slightly or perhaps add LED's etc. By the way, I do like them anyway. We've just been conditioned to expect certain things from various manufacturers and hence, we treat them differently.
I find the F12 contemporary, as the Enzo was when it was released. Not for everyone's tastes or preferences. Maybe they are trying to be more like Lambo, which seem to be far more aggressive in their stying - which I also like.
As for Nick's comment, I rather agree - in North America, all of these cars just can't be used properly without the risk of losing your license.
Not saying I wouldn't buy one, just that it couldn't be fully appreciated here.
Very true. Ferraris are very sharp lately, it's exciting, but for me the later design are not timeless. The Enzo so very noughties IMHO.
The F40 is very 80s but will always be amazing.
REALZEUS:
I think that some people have just something against modernity, that's all. IMHO the F12 makes the 599 look dated.
At least it is safe to say that the F12 takes the 599GTB performance to the next level: +120hp, 70kg less weight, better gear-box, better electronics/suspension (?) etc.
reginos:
crayphile:
Here are some real life photos from Teamspeed.com:
Would aerodynamics really suffer if the rear was designed to look beautiful? I wonder
The disadvantage of that rear design is that it looks like a lot of plastic. Somehow not "valuable"
nberry:
Depreciation I believe is related to a price point which Ferrari crossed with the 430, introducing the California and relatively poor front engine models. The 612 and 599 were not well received.
Neither is the FF well received. And a 458 (Spider excluded) can be quickly delivered "build to order" these days too. I know that selling Ferraris is not as easy as it used to be i former times. No wonder - the competition got more intense, also in this sector
reginos:
crayphile:
Here are some real life photos from Teamspeed.com:
Would aerodynamics really suffer if the rear was designed to look beautiful? I wonder
Given that this car features a blown diffuser (no kidding, but with air channeled to the diffuser through the rear deck inlets instead of the exhausts), I suppose that the rear end is intolerant to changes.
Futch:
mp:
Looks are subjective. But, I find it interesting how we seem to cut Porsche slack - by getting excited when they change the tail lights slightly or perhaps add LED's etc. By the way, I do like them anyway. We've just been conditioned to expect certain things from various manufacturers and hence, we treat them differently.
I find the F12 contemporary, as the Enzo was when it was released. Not for everyone's tastes or preferences. Maybe they are trying to be more like Lambo, which seem to be far more aggressive in their stying - which I also like.
As for Nick's comment, I rather agree - in North America, all of these cars just can't be used properly without the risk of losing your license.
Not saying I wouldn't buy one, just that it couldn't be fully appreciated here.
Very true. Ferraris are very sharp lately, it's exciting, but for me the later design are not timeless. The Enzo so very noughties IMHO.
The F40 is very 80s but will always be amazing.
Couldn't disaggree more. I find the Enzo stunning to this day. The F40 is clearly a car of the past though. Each to their own I guess.
Mar 2, 2012 3:46:59 PM
Rossi:
Futch:
Second main problem : depreciation.
Sad but true.Out of curiousity I just happened to check some used 458 prices recently: they already start at 140k.
And for the 599 , it starts at 125 K EURO on the Swiss market ( and there are 54 to sell just on Auto Scout )
997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm
Gnil:
Rossi:
Futch:
Second main problem : depreciation.
Sad but true.Out of curiousity I just happened to check some used 458 prices recently: they already start at 140k.
And for the 599 , it starts at 125 K EURO on the Swiss market ( and there are 54 to sell just on Auto Scout )
Aren't all supercars depreciating more these days? IMO, while there is more competition in this market place, European and American economies are not what they used to be. A certain percentage of buyers can't play this $$$$ game anymore.
When I last looked, the Asian markets are picking up the slack, but probably not with used cars - they want brand spanking new ones only and have the cash to do so.
Futch:
The led treatment is cool!
way better than the 458 and FF!
Agree. I much prefer the light pipe treatment when in conjuction with LEDs versus individually placing the LEDs in a the light housing.
BMW does a gorgeous treatment on the rear of their cars.
MKSGR:
reginos:
crayphile:
Here are some real life photos from Teamspeed.com:
Would aerodynamics really suffer if the rear was designed to look beautiful? I wonder
The disadvantage of that rear design is that it looks like a lot of plastic. Somehow not "valuable"
I am sure Ferrari will propose to have the rear diffuser in carbon for crazy $ of course.