Crown

Just found this little nugget from an article on MotorAuthority.

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First up, the Macan

The Macan compact crossover will be an obvious target for improving fleet fuel economy averages. A "four-cylinder makes sense" for the Macan, says Bernhard Maier, though it won't be a boxer-style engine, as it wouldn't fit the platform.

It will also be targeted at a new sort of buyer for Porsche: more urban, younger, and likely more concerned with fuel economy and price. As the fastest growing segment in the industry as a whole, Porsche wants a piece of the B-segment SUV pie.

Porsche CEO Mueller says a "cautious estimate" of Macan volume at the outset is 50,000-55,000 units per year. Some of that volume will likely come from the entry-level end of Cayenne sales, says Mueller--about 10 percent. The rest, however, will be buyers new to the brand.

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Can anyone say "Audi's 2.0L 4-cylinder turbo?"

rulesdontapply

New article in Car and Driver:

WHAT IT IS: Porsche’s entry-level SUV. Did you ever think you’d see those words in the same sentence? It’s like “McDonald’s new $62 porterhouse.” Initially, the Cajun will come as a coupe; two years after the coupe arrives, a five-door will debut. A low roofline and a Porsche-designed interior will differentiate the Cajun from its platform-mate, the Audi Q5. Much of the cabin, including a Panamera-like raised center console, will reportedly be shared with the upcoming Porsche Boxster. 

WHY IT MATTERS: Porsche wants to become a full-line car manufacturer, and the Cajun could give its dealers big volume. 

PLATFORM: Wider and slightly shorter than the Q5, the Cajun will share its powertrain and all-wheel drive with the Audi. Porsche will develop chassis and brake components. 

POWERTRAIN: Europeans will get a number of options including diesels and hybrids, but Americans are expected to get a choice of two gas engines—Audi’s turbocharged 2.0-liter four with 237 horsepower or a supercharged 288-hp V-6. A seven-speed manual is a possibility, but most, if not all, Cajuns will get a seven-speed dual-clutch automatic. 

COMPETITION: Audi Q5, BMW X3, Infiniti EX35, Land Rover Range Rover Evoque, Mercedes-Benz GLK. 

WHAT MIGHT GO WRONG: People might find the notion of an entry-level Porsche SUV abhorrent. Ah, who are we kidding? 

ESTIMATED ARRIVAL AND PRICE: On sale in 2013, starting at $45,000.
 

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2014-porsche-macan-future-cars

"WHY IT MATTERS: Porsche wants to become a full-line car manufacturer, and the Cajun could give its dealers big volume".

I am sure many will disagree, but to me this spells the beginning of the end of the company I knew and admired.

Don't rely too much on this. First and foremost they didn't even get the name right. 

dxpetrov:

Don't rely too much on this. First and foremost they didn't even get the name right. 

I also doubt that the Macan will be initially available as a two-door only, this contradicts everything I saw and heard. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

dxpetrov:

Don't rely too much on this. First and foremost they didn't even get the name right. 

 

I also doubt that the Macan will be initially available as a two-door only, this contradicts everything I saw and heard. 

 Yes, same here.  I have seen a couple of reports about the two-door, but nothing I would trust.  Plus, it just doesn't make good marketing sense. 

I've seen two mules so far and both had four doors. Same goes to the mule photos seen on the internet.

Unless of course Porsche fools us and just removes two doors in the final product. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

if you want to look at how the market is taking 2 doors, it is my understanding the 2 door version of the Land rover Evoque is getting cut for north America. they look good but no one wants one.

i would think Porsche will hear this drum beat.

2012 991 C2S -manual / 2010 997.2 turbo cab manual, sold / 2008 Cayenne GTS Manual /2008 RS 60 sold /04 C4S sold - 08 Cayenne Turbo PDCC sold

CPA4S:

if you want to look at how the market is taking 2 doors, it is my understanding the 2 door version of the Land rover Evoque is getting cut for north America. they look good but no one wants one.

i would think Porsche will hear this drum beat.

Agreed . Over here the 4 door is selling like crazy, but you rarely see a 2 door.  I guess that's where ir goes beyond the fashion statement, a small suv is supposed to be fun ( hence the 2 door) but what's the point of having an suv when the use is so limited. Idk about you but everytime I see a small suv I just imaging it being great to get a few friends in the back, a cooler, towels, and head down to the beach. And a 2 door doesn't cut it for that.

Why do so many sources speculate a $45k base price? Do they even do their research to discover the base price of the Cayenne is $48k? This is an ENTRY LEVEL car, and I suspect it will be a major money whore. I bet a base price in the mid 30's (proportional with the Q5).

I am assuming that at $45k they will get the full package...  most of the options should be included...  Cayenne base with average options will end up in the 60s...

Carrara:

Why do so many sources speculate a $45k base price? Do they even do their research to discover the base price of the Cayenne is $48k? This is an ENTRY LEVEL car, and I suspect it will be a major money whore. I bet a base price in the mid 30's (proportional with the Q5).

Something over 40k I think. 

Wont it be a better prospect just to buy a Q5? Audi have more experience in building Audi's- No?

I think we should not worry too much! Cayenne and the Q7 are built from the same platform and they are worlds apart dynamically. There is much more in a car construction than the frame and some cables...

...but the Cayenne platform was a Cayenne before a Q7 (at least co-developed by PAG and VAG) but the McCann will be a Q5 before it is a McCann.

Also - the Cayenne did not have as an obvious target " improving fleet fuel economy averages". Just saying......

The only thing unknown is whether Porsche were involved in the development of the next Q5 on which the Macan will be based. If that were the case some Porsche pride might be recovered!

The objective of the Macan is not IMO to solely reduce the emissions/fuel consumption averages. There is a growing demand for this size of 4x4 leisure vehicles. Cayenne-sized cars are just too big and expensive to buy and run for most people in most places. Besides BMW and Audi, see the demand for the Evoque and even the Nissan Qashqai.

Personally, although I'm a Porsche fan I wouldn't pay extra for a Macan over a Q5. I own a Q5 TDI and it is superb for its role as a family/leisure daily vehicle.If I needed more performance I could buy one of the 6 cylinder models in the Q5 range. Why would I pay more for a (theoretical) second less in acceleration, if at all, a few kms of extra top speed and a more expensive badge? With the difference in price I could get a small city vehicle like a new Smart of the VW Up or another motorbike, if I just wanted to pay the money on vehicles. Having said that, I must admit that if I didn't own a real Porsche, then I might be tempted by the Macan

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"Form follows function"

Spyderidol:

Wont it be a better prospect just to buy a Q5? Audi have more experience in building Audi's- No?

Maybe, we'll just have to wait and see.  Will Porsche be able to add enough to distinctly differentiate the Macan from the Q5 and justify the price difference?  That's the question.  They have done that well enough with the Cayenne  by adding significantly better handling and performance motors. 

GM Austin:

Spyderidol:

Wont it be a better prospect just to buy a Q5? Audi have more experience in building Audi's- No?

Maybe, we'll just have to wait and see.  Will Porsche be able to add enough to distinctly differentiate the Macan from the Q5 and justify the price difference?  That's the question.  They have done that well enough with the Cayenne  by adding significantly better handling and performance motors. 

In the Cayenne the ones with big difference are the top of the line models, with their powerful V8s and the expensive dynamic extras. The entry level models (diesel, 6C, and even the VW derived hybrid)  that a large number of buyers can afford are very overpriced IMO compared to other premium SUVs without significant added value besides the name. The Cayenne hybrid for example is almost 100% VW Touareg with the same transmission and steering system as the VW.

The Macan will also be in a similar position in relation to other premium brands. The top of the range Macan might be something special but I don't expect the same for the rest of the range for the money.

I expect the Macan to be a sales success and it will bring a lot of profit to PAG, but that's besides the point.

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"Form follows function"

Reginos, let's wait and see if the price justifies the value.  My guess is that the Macan will provide enough added value in performance, design, engineering and overall quality.  And there is no doubt that the market is there for a small SUV...

Wonderbar:

Reginos, let's wait and see if the price justifies the value.  My guess is that the Macan will provide enough added value in performance, design, engineering and overall quality.  And there is no doubt that the market is there for a small SUV...

I am pretty confident that the Macan will be Porsche's best selling model sooner or later. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (June 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

Wonderbar:

Reginos, let's wait and see if the price justifies the value.  My guess is that the Macan will provide enough added value in performance, design, engineering and overall quality.  And there is no doubt that the market is there for a small SUV...

I am pretty confident that the Macan will be Porsche's best selling model sooner or later. 

It will be a sales success because it will concede the Porsche badge to a much bigger market. However, as this trend is allowed to continue the Porsche badge will be eventually devalued.

If the Macan is a success then we will have a small Panamera and eventually a kind of Porsche GTI hatchback What is the point? VW Group are selling some 8 million new cars a year. They could very well afford to keep the only German sportscar name more exclusive? It's a shortsighted strategy IMO that will eventually backfire.

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"Form follows function"

I'm with you 100% reginos. The McCann will sell like hot cakes, but that doesn't mean it will be good for Porsche in the long run. Time will tell.

I think time already tell .  For a good no. of years we have : Boxster , Cayman , Cayenne and Panamera - yet when we say Porsche ...   911 comes first to our mind .

Misha011:

I think time already tell .  For a good no. of years we have : Boxster , Cayman , Cayenne and Panamera - yet when we say Porsche ...   911 comes first to our mind .

Agreed.  It's actually quite amusing to see people worrying about the devaluation of the Porsche brand by the Macan now, when that was already achieved with the launch of the Cayenne.  When the Cayenne was first announced, many Porsche enthusiasts (quite naturally) reacted with shock and horror, describing it as the beginning of the end of a proud sports car brand.  Now, on forums like this one, many people spend as much time - or more - talking about their Cayennes as they do about their 911s.  Ironic, isn't it?  

RC:

Wonderbar:

Reginos, let's wait and see if the price justifies the value.  My guess is that the Macan will provide enough added value in performance, design, engineering and overall quality.  And there is no doubt that the market is there for a small SUV...

I am pretty confident that the Macan will be Porsche's best selling model sooner or later. 

Dealer principals in the USA with whom I've spoken are convinced that Macan sales numbers will overwhelm all other Porsche sales.  They think that dealers who don't invest in expanded service facilities will dearly regret their inaction.

Mike

Carrera GT + Tesla Roadster 1.5 + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T + GT3 RS 4.0

Just for discussion, I will say that I think the Porsche brand has gained added value with the addition of the Boxster, Cayenne, Cayman,  Panamera and the upcoming Macan. 

The 911 was in terrible trouble in the early 1990s.  It had lost ground to its rivals, and was in real danger of dying in a dying niche market.  WW and his Board made some risky bets on the Boxster, then the Cayenne, and they paid off, making the evolution of the 993,996,997,991 possible.  And these are all high quality cars, leading the performance niche in each respective segment.  Had these cars been low quality/poor performers or VW/Audi knock offs, then the brand would have been devalued. 

And while I am on the 911 identity thing, I am old enough to remember that Porsche had a fantastic identity years before the 911 came along.  The Speedsters, Spyders, RSKs, Carreras, etc., had a fabulous engineering, racing and street car image.  I can still hear the 356 purists griping about the weird, ugly 911 being a devaluation of the historic Porsche brand before that. 

Also, when we talk about all the cars Porsche is now building, we have to remember the market (and affluent world population) has expanded exponentially.  Porsche absolutely must play in be successful in that market, just like any other business must expand and adjust its product base.  Looked at in this way, you might say Porsche's brand would be devalued irrevocably if it did not expand and offer quality products.

And finally, ask any dedicated Cayenne, Cayman, or Boxster owner if they think their cars "devalue" the Porsche brand.  My guess is they will set you straight that they love, value and respect their cars and think Porsche and its "brand" are the best around.

The Boxster and Cayman are both sports cars , so mixing them into the discussion (in order to give it weight) is a fallacious argument.

(Both are also pure Porsche products).

Interesting to note that Porsche's initial preoccupation with the launching of the Cayenne, was to make it compete in grueling off road events (Moscow - Paris?) not only to show its off-road capabilities, but to demonstrate its "sportiness". What are they going to do with the McCann? Drive it to Starsbourg on a liter of gasoline to show how frugal it can be?.

Again - (and I think that perhaps this is true for all us skeptics)  - No one is saying it is not a sound business decision (we are not that dumb), but brand positioning has a very large emotional component, and I am afraid that the McCann concept does very little to tie into my emotional link to the Porsche brand. It simply is not what Porsche was all about.

The McCann concept is a tool to achieve the 180K- 200K unit  objectives that the current management has for the company. Growth is the key. Today the objective is to achieve 200K units, Tomorrow it will be 250K, and then 300K. Will that be when we see the Golf-Porsche GTi? What about when the sales objective is 500K units? Perhaps a Porsche people carrier? Will Porsche then have the same brand positioning as it has now?(which incidentally is not what it once was  back in the day when it dominated sportscar racing)

Furthermore, when the Cayenne and the Panamera were conceived, Porsche had the ambition of staying independent and the strategy was for these new models to boost the numbers and profits towards this aim. The dream of independence is gone and Porsche are left with models that are competent on one hand but at the same time they devalue the emotion and passion of a real sportscar marque. . No one sells expensive cars on performance figures alone. You need some mystique to convince the buyer and Porsche is steadily losing that element. Why would someone stick to Porsche and not migrate to Audi (TTRS, R8 etc) for example that give more with less money, when the emotion is gone?

And let's not introduce motorsport  into the discussion. It's good to talk about the 60s, 70s and 80s Porsche race wins, but Audi and Mercedes have successes now that add to their character in 2012.

The day will come soon when we will see a Porsche based on the Audi RS3 or the Audi RS6 because such models are potential best sellers and more profitable too, since they could be sold at higher prices because of the Porsche badge.

Porsche are gaining new customers with this type of expansion, no one is blind to that,  but they are losing their core values and their soul. They could have been the jewel in VW Group's crown whereas they are being converted into an internal rival for up-market Audis.

Imagine how much more profit FIAT could have made if they similarly expanded Ferrari into a Lancia/Alfa Romeo clone. But apparently they respect tradition and value elements like charisma and magic and they are not short-sighted cynics.

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"Form follows function"

I think a stylish Macan Turbo that handles well would be much more in line with Porsche's identity then a Cayenne Diesel with ugly tail lights.

Every Porsche should be as fast as comparable high end models of Audi (S/RS), BMW (M) and Co and they should handle better then any other model in their class.

To me the problem arises when Porsche competes with run of the mill models as this means that a badge like (BMW) M actually becomes more exclusive then the Porsche badge. 

neunelf:

I think a stylish Macan Turbo that handles well would be much more in line with Porsche's identity then a Cayenne Diesel with ugly tail lights.

If the McCann  concept called for the above (in other words a real "Macan".) then  perhaps our argument would be more difficult to make.   Here we agree 100%.