Crown

It's been a little over 5 years and my 911's battery may need replacement.

It's an OEM Moll Kamina battery (80Ah, 12V, 380A, Porsche part no 999.611.080.00).

It had 380 cold crank amps when new but is now estimated to be only 211 amps.

So, it is gradually reaching the end of its service life.

I have an extended Porsche warranty that requires me to use only genuine Porsche parts and to have only Porsche technicians (or Porsche partners) work on the car, otherwise my warranty is invalidated.

The Moll Kamina battery costs around £197 inc VAT (compared to £127 for an equivalent Bosch S5 replacement battery).

Interestingly, the replacement Porsche part no is 999.611.080.20 so it's slightly different.

If I were to get it fitted by a Porsche dealer, the cost is ridiculous at a total of £337.

But fortunately, Porsche Assistance in the UK is outsourced to the RAC so I can buy the battery from the OPC by phone, the Porsche Assistance technician (really a RAC guy) will collect it for me and fit it at my home with no labour charges.

So, I'm paying the extra £70 but not the extra £210.

At least buying a Porsche battery and getting it fitted by a Porsche partner means my warranty is safe.

(NB: the terms of the Porsche GB extended warranty are restrictive and leave one much less choice than would otherwise be the case).

I also see little point spending £130 plus VAT per hour for a Porsche technician to carry out diagnostics and to do an overnight trickle charge of a 5 year old battery only to be told that it needs to be replaced anyway.

After 5 years, there's no point trying to keep an old battery going especially since winter isn't even over.

What have your experiences been? Any advice guys?

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997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

Hi Easy,

I had to have the battery replaced on 4/26/2008.  I owned the vehicle new as of 11/4/2004.  This was probably my fault, though, as I didn't use the car for about 3 weeks, and the battery was draining down.

In addition, I purchased a Porsche trickle charger on 4/26/2008.

On 11/21/2008, they discovered a crimp on the alternator/starter harness.  This probably allowed the battery on 4/26/2008 to drain faster than it should have.

On 4/26/2011, I had to have the alternator repaired/replaced (don't remember which) at a cost of $990.70

To this day, I still have a problem where the alarm would go off in the middle of the night, I would say, once a week?

2005 997S Blk/Blk

I never kept track of the 5 year life expentancy only to find out that one day it seemend to be working just fine and the next day it was complely dead, so you did the right thing keeping an eye of the time passed because they die without warning.

Luckily my dealer sent a tech to my home that morning to start it up and take it to the dealership to replace the battery and I had the choice of the OEM or the Bosch which was the same thing but for a fraction of the price and I found installtion cost to be very reasonable, and the price of the Bosch as well very well priced though I don't remember how much it was.

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Thanks for the advice guys.

@SoCal Alan: yes, we checked the drain. It's only 0.03A with load (i.e. while using various items that run off the battery) and the alternator is operating fine (14.88V, 24.14A). So no problems there. But the main thing is that, when it was flat, it went down to 3.63V and after a short charge and run, it quickly went to 12.40V but there's no way of knowing if it can keep hold of that charge. The safest thing to do IMO is just to replace it. After 5 years, it's just a question of time before it really needs replacing anyway.

@Carlos: if it weren't for the extended warranty (that requires Porsche genuine parts only to be fitted), I would be fitting a Bosch S5 battery too. My OEM battery is 80Ah and Bosch makes a 85Ah battery with similar dimensions so I could easily have fitted a more powerful battery in the same space. Unfortunately, the 85Ah Moll Kamina battery is longer so it may not fit (353mm instead of 315mm).

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

My BMW X5M has been great and very reliable so far, almost 18000 km without any serious issues (there was just a "recall" and I had some software updates done). The car is almost two years old this April.

A short while ago, when I turned on the engine, the diagnostic system told me that the battery isn't good anymore and that I should have it exchanged. I didn't even know that the diagnostic system on the X5 does this, pretty impressive...and accurate. Despite the fact that I went to the dealer two days later, the battery was still working fine (but showing that warning every time I turned on the engine) but according to the dealer and his BMW tester, the battery wasn't within the specs anymore. They connected the BMW tester to my X5M, they ran a short test (aprox. two minutes) and the tester recommended exchanging the battery. Easy peasy.

Of course I got a new one on warranty, replacement cost (this is a bad ass 105 A battery) would have been around 300 EUR. Ouch. I wasn't amused that I got a new battery after not even two years of usage but the self diagnostic on the X5 seems to work excellent. The battery could have just stopped working on me, leaving me stuck. It didn't happen.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (May 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Great, it's all done :)

Bought a new Moll Kamina 80Ah/380A battery from my local OPC. They filled it with acid (since it is supplied dry from the Porsche warehouse) and then they charged it up.

Porsche Assistance (really RAC) collected it and fitted it for me.

It has 422A cold crank amps (more than the 380A it is supposed to have) and got a reading of 100% charge and 100% health. The alternator reading is 14.94V.

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

That sounds good Easy. How do you check cold crank amps??

In the winter where I may not use the car as a DD, I keep a CTEK on it. Will that help the battery life or is it going to be approx 5 years no matter what??????? 

I rather just have a new battery installed on next oil change (this Spring) if it won't make that much difference on how long it will work..

2-2013 will be 5 years for my Turbo Cab. (geez can't believe how fast it goes)

AFAIK these batteries last well for about 5 years and then reliability tails off quite quickly. I'm not sure too many people see more than 6 years usage no matter what kind of care is taken to prolong service life. The amps were checked by the Porsche Assistance guy. He had some kind of digital meter that could take a reading. A battery maintainer will certainly help though. If you aren't necessarily going to fit a Porsche battery, then the cost is very reasonable.

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

??  Invalidate a warranty if you replace the battery yourself?  lol  Who would know?  That is crazy.  Like canceling your homeowners warranty is you replace your lightbulb yourself.  Luck you don't have to go to a Porsche gas stations and only have Porsche technicians fill it up with gas.

My battery - Interstate - $140 US, installed myself in 1 minute, lol.

I guess they would not like me fixing my NAV unit, my drivers side door latch, my Windshield valance.  I even curbed my 996 and broke a rear suspension wishbone, limped it home, ordered the part and replaced it in my garage.  Drove it to the shop for an alignment for $60.

Just because it is a Porsche does not mean you can't replace simple stuff.  What about wiper blades or fuses?

BTW, when my first battery failed I had Porsche replace it under warranty.  $0 dollars.  Not certain what your warranty is good for other than generating extra expense.  Again, who would know if you replaced your battery?  AND who would have the balls to then negate your warranty for an unrelated claim?

Just sounds like throwing money away that could go into the gas tank for a nice drive.  I guess it is like N rated tires.  The need to spend money is addicting and sometimes unquestioned.

The terms of the extended warranty from Porsche GB may not appeal to you but they do to others. People aren't as foolish as you might think.

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997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

Leawood911:

??  Invalidate a warranty if you replace the battery yourself?  lol  Who would know?  That is crazy.  Like canceling your homeowners warranty is you replace your lightbulb yourself.  Luck you don't have to go to a Porsche gas stations and only have Porsche technicians fill it up with gas.

My battery - Interstate - $140 US, installed myself in 1 minute, lol.

I guess they would not like me fixing my NAV unit, my drivers side door latch, my Windshield valance.  I even curbed my 996 and broke a rear suspension wishbone, limped it home, ordered the part and replaced it in my garage.  Drove it to the shop for an alignment for $60.

Just because it is a Porsche does not mean you can't replace simple stuff.  What about wiper blades or fuses?

BTW, when my first battery failed I had Porsche replace it under warranty.  $0 dollars.  Not certain what your warranty is good for other than generating extra expense.  Again, who would know if you replaced your battery?  AND who would have the balls to then negate your warranty for an unrelated claim?

Just sounds like throwing money away that could go into the gas tank for a nice drive.  I guess it is like N rated tires.  The need to spend money is addicting and sometimes unquestioned.

You could have an intermediate shaft failure, not that uncomon in 996 and early 997's and that is a catastrophic engine failure, you wouln't be limping back to the garage to fix it and you'd be looking at thousands of dollars for a new engine plus labor. Or you may simply not want to spend the time and work in trying to do it all yourself, and instead go for that nice drive. Not saying that its stupid not to get the warranty either, just that wether warranty is a waste or not depends on the person and circumstances  For some it may be a waste, for others its money well spent.

The only way you would save by going non N-rated is by going for cheaper brand tires that don't even have an N-version, which IMO would not be very smart on a car of this nature and purpose  or intended use, which I don't think is what you are talking about, but N-rated tires are similarly priced as their non N-rated versions, at least here they are.. not in US? 

Exactly. Replacing an engine due to an intermediate shaft failure can cost many thousands. I know I'm covered which means I don't lose sleep over it. Given that I want to keep my car for a long time, I'd rather be safe than sorry. Others may come to a different conclusion.

As for N rated tyres, agreed. The only way to save meaningful amounts of money is to pick tyres that don't have both N and non-N variants. As you say, tyres with both N and non-N variants typically have, at most, only a small price differential.

Whether to buy N rated tyres or not will depend on many factors (in my case, e.g. expected usage). I track my car various times every year. I prefer maximum safety for this reason (due to high speed, high cornering loads and the need for soft, sticky rubber on track). So my car is fitted with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 (N2) tyres. Given the relatively low mileage I do per year, the cost is not financially unreasonable.

Others may prefer a different tyre due to their own circumstances and expected usage etc.

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

You got me wrong about  the warranty - it is a great thing to have but to require that only Porsche can change a battery when it is not even covered by the warranty is a joke.  This is like having Porsche health insurance but you must buy Porsche toilet paper and have a Porsche tech wipe your ass else your health insurance is not valid any more.

I thought you were going to tell me how you may have an intermediate shaft failure and because you replaced your own battery the warranty would not cover the shaft failure.  Ironically, the reason you are likely to have the shaft failure is because the car is sitting around too much, not being driven, because you spent all your money on warranty, overpriced services and tires.

BTW - Prices for N rated tires vs my DWS are VERY DIFFERENT - try almost 8X as much.  Do the math.

Michelin N rated tires (4) $2000 + extra for Road Hazard warranty.  My Conti DWS with 3X the tread wear and excellent street, rain and cold weather performance are $860 with included road hazard warranty.  You do the math - $6000 in N rated tires or $800 for an excellent set that does the same job only better in cold weather.  If you can get these tires to slip or lose traction on the street you are driving like a mad man.  The n rated tires may be slipping much sooner when cold, wet or snowy.  Clearly Porsche needs to designate an N rated all season tire.  They have n rated winter tires.  As the 911 is more of a GT these days it would be logical.  They could overcharge for these too so you could spend the money you want to and feel good!

Compare at tirerack.com - again, test drive these tires! I have been on solid ice with my DWS in the last few weeks and they rock!

Anyway, you know how I feel.  As much as I love the 911 and have owned 7 over the last 30 years the 911 is NOT  THAT SPECIAL!  It is just a car with four wheels.  One thing I have learned working on these cars for the last 30 years is that in the last 10 years they have become MUCH cheaper in their construction.  Lots of corners cut where you cant see it.  Under the covers there are ordinary, CHEAP, parts just like every other car.  You would not even want to see the cheap components that make up your fancy 997 Bose radio.  Bottom line is none of you drive these cars fast enough on the street to ever feel the difference between my DWS and the N rated tires.  In this day an age it is simply foolish to think that Continental would not make a high speed tire that is just as safe and well constructed as the N.  Even the cheapest tire is safe these days for the street.  Compare the specs of the DWS in the proper sizes to the n rated michelin at the tirerack.com.  the specs, load ratings, speed ratings are all exactly alike except that the DWS is superior in wear rating and temp rating.  Enough - try it, unless you try it you simply do not know of what you speak.  Keep spending your money - if it makes you feel better.

Just because you were convinced to overspend on a car does not mean you have to continue to do so for NO good reason.  If it was such an important deal to use n rated tires for safety they would not put crappy shocks on it that wear out in a few years. 

Anyway - the point is - you all ought to old enough now to change your battery yourself!  Reminds me of a NEW joke - how many rennteam members does it take to change a battery in a Porsche?  This is clearly not a technical forum, this is a shopping guide.

Leawood911:

... you must buy Porsche toilet paper and have a Porsche tech wide your ass else your health insurance is not valid.

Reminds me of a NEW joke - how many rennteam members does it take to change a battery in a Porsche?  This is clearly not a technical forum, this is a shopping guide.

Is this how you discuss things politely with other people? 

And Rennteam is not solely a technical forum like RennTech. 

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

Easy, Easy.  You know how I am - never trying to offend is my motto - I just have a unique sense of style and sometimes a topic is just to ridiculus to pass up a great analogy.

Substitute 'ass' with 'bottom' if that makes everyone feel better about it.  Come on buddy, after all these years you know I count on thick skin and good humor.  What happened to that famous british humor (Monty Python was never 100% polite, lol) 

Let's stop being so sensitive around here and actually read what I am saying and the point I am making.  Perhaps it is because what I point out makes too much sense that it is offensive to consider?

I am also a member at RennTech, they have some great resources (Loren) and with their membership you can get great discounts on part at Sunset Porsche of Oregon.  Best prices I have found - that says a lot you know I am soooo cheap.

Now back to the points I made in this discussion  -  do you have anything to add? 

Can you explain why you feel it is legit for a warranty to not allow you to replace a battery yourself?  

Can you give me one good reason why replaing the battery yourself should void the warranty for the rest of the car?  How about other consumables like lamps, fuses etc.  Why not gasoline, air in the tires or oil?

Have you actually price compared the DWS and the N rated tires at the tirerack and compared the specs?  Do you doubt my numbers?  Why is it more important to attack my tone and style rather than the facts I present?  Perhaps the facts are correct?

Sometimes I think I resort to challenging tones and humor (mostly) to get some type of real answer to my points.  Perhaps now that I have pointed this out you can look past the tone and respond with substance.  I always try to include substance.  I am big on substance.  I am more interested in learning facts than judging peoples tone.  I love all people even those who can't change a battery in a car.

Cheers!

(I guess  you will not be returning the Porsche toilet paper)

I've already explained why an extended warranty makes a lot of sense for some people, including me. That you don't think the same way is absolutely fine. It certainly isn't an unwillingness to debate the issue, just an unwillingness to go over the same ground a second time. I'm not trying to persuade you of anything. You don't agree. I get it. Just realise that others have a different point of view than you.

As for the warranty, Porsche GB has its own, non-negotiable contractual terms. In the case of a battery, it is a wear and tear item, as are fuses, wipers, bulbs etc etc so they are not covered in themselves. However, the reason why the battery must be a genuine Porsche part is so that they can be sure that the battery doesn't cause a fault with a part that is covered by the warranty. This is strict but these are their terms. And one can take it or leave it. They take the view that, if they are covering me without limit, they need to be sure that I haven't contributed to any fault that develops.

997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red

Simple question: why does the manufacturer Continental not recommend the DWS tires for the 911 on the website? Stupid company, lazy web agency (or not enough budget), Porsche influence or because they believe based on tests that this is not the right product?

And when discussing Nurburgring times raises always immediately the question: Which tire?

It probably depends on how you use the car. My mother did not even notice any difference between winter and summer tires with the exception of the loudness. (Not saying you are driving like my mother)

Leawood911:

Can you give me one good reason why replaing the battery yourself should void the warranty for the rest of the car?  How about other consumables like lamps, fuses etc.  Why not gasoline, air in the tires or oil?

The reason is that, to comply with warranty stipulations, Porsche insist upon doing  it... at least in the UK they do - simple as that!

It may seem unreasonable to you, but those are the conditions that apply... and it pays to play by the rules..

"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

Leawood,

you are certainly making some valid points. I especially agree that the 911 of today are not built like their air-cooled predecessors. The short answer is.... take it or leave it.

The long answer is... these cars are still technically brilliant. We could argue about Porsche´s current business model but one should be wondering where Porsche would be today if it weren´t for that change of direction. Possibly not owned by Volkswagen. 

To the insurance policy itself, it is a matter that also concerns the original manufacturer´s warranty in a way that certain modifications would void it.