Crown

Wonderbar:

"I'm also still thinking about the Panamera Turbo S...but the facelift is close, so I'm not sure" --RC

I spoke to my dealer.yesterday about the timing of the Panamera facelift, and he said not until 2014.  He says he is already getting allocations for 2013 for the current line, so that would not be happening if facelift was coming in 2013.  Do you have other information? 

On your Panamera vs. Cayenne decision, why not keep the X5M as your family hot rod, then get the Panamera?  Maybe I am missing something...

I wouldn't be able to drive the Panamera to work I'm afraid. I have a garage next to my business but it is very small and while the X5M fits (and so should the Panamera), I almost hit the side wall when exiting the garage, there is only half an inch or so room left (left and right), so this is very tricky. I'm afraid I can't use this garage for the Panamera because I usually go home when it is dark outside and when I'm tired...  Too risky.

If I get the Panamera, I would keep it at home only but at least I could use it for (and with) the family the whole time.

The Panamera facelift is expected for MY 2014, this would be 2013 already but it could come earlier if sales slow down and currently, the Panamera doesn't sell that well anymore in Germany for example. I may get more information about it (facelift) next week, with some luck.

The X5M lease runs out April 2013 and my wife doesn't want to keep it because of the high fuel consumption.

Right now, I also follow the idea of getting myself the Panamera Turbo S and the Cayenne Diesel for my wife but I do a lot of mind games right now, it is a financial decision too, so it isn't that easy.

Unfortunately I also had to watch Top Gear Season 15 episode 3, which had a comparison between the Panamera Turbo and AM/Maserati and they really hated how the Panamera looks and made pretty bad jokes about it, so this kind of made me thinking again if the Cayenne isn't the better choice.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

Yes, the Panamera Turbo won the comparison (performance) and acceleration from standstill was more than spectacular (the Panamera was a couple of car lengths ahead of the Quattroporte and Rapide) but at the end of the show, they declared the Quattroporte to be the winner. While I agree that the Quattroporte looks great and has an amazing engine/exhaust sound, performance isn't really that great.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

More Cayenne Turbo photos (the loaner I had...)

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Thanks RC.  Can someone post that TG show?  I searched on TG for it and could not locate it.

I hope I am wrong, but I  sometimes think that English car shows, especially the ones that try to be cool and humorous, have an underlying bias against German cars. 

I also did not like the tail of the Panamera for a long time, but now I think it is very unique and modern.  At my dealer, it is the Porsche best seller (until, I predict, the 991). 

On the subject of S models (late models in a series), I talked recently to a guy who had just bought a new, highly optioned, 997 Turbo S.  I asked him why not the 991, and he responded basically " I have the money now and like the car, and don't want to wait."  Typical high end buyer, I believe...

Wonderbar:

Thanks RC.  Can someone post that TG show?  I searched on TG for it and could not locate it.

I hope I am wrong, but I  sometimes think that English car shows, especially the ones that try to be cool and humorous, have an underlying bias against German cars. 

I also did not like the tail of the Panamera for a long time, but now I think it is very unique and modern.  At my dealer, it is the Porsche best seller (until, I predict, the 991). 

On the subject of S models (late models in a series), I talked recently to a guy who had just bought a new, highly optioned, 997 Turbo S.  I asked him why not the 991, and he responded basically " I have the money now and like the car, and don't want to wait."  Typical high end buyer, I believe...

iTunes...Season 15...episode 3.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

When they start the show, they present the Maserati Quattroporte GTS, the Aston Martin Rapide and...the extremely ugly Porsche Panamera Turbo. Then, a couple of seconds later, they say that the Panamera Turbo isn't just hideous, compared to the other cars but hideous compared to a genital wart.

Then, they say that the Quattroporte looks like a mafia hitman, the Rapide as a ballerina and the Panamera Turbo as somebody found at the bottom of a lake after two weeks and while pointing to the Quattroporte "this is the man who threw it there...".

Interior comment about the Panamera: You need to be a rocket scientist to understand anything (which kind of tells me how high the IQ of the testdrivers at TG must be...  ).

Seriously: I understand the purpose of the TG show and I understand that their viewers probably expect such "under the belt" comments but this isn't a car show I can take seriously, this is more of a clown show with cars as a subject. Mr. Bean for car lovers in a way...

Sorry but I prefer cars shows which are funny, witty and...fair. Not just funny.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Agree, TG go ott with the jokes and pee takes. Some stated that the BMW i drive was complex, jeeps, its so easy .

throt

"I didn't do it"

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

Budster:
It's supposed to be highly opinionated - that's what makes it worth watching, and is what cars are all about. You're supposed to get annoyed and disagree with alot of what they say. Same as Rennteam: so opinionated that we prefer to remain anonymous!
 

I'm not sure about this. If TG is supposed to be that highly opinionated, why do they trash only certain cars and not all of them ? I mean it would be easy to find some very negative aspects about the Quattroporte or the Rapide but they prefer to bash only the Panamera. Kind of lame if you ask me.

As Wonderbar said, they love to bash german cars (well, the british boulevard press loves to bash anything German ...apparently they forgot that WWII is over for some while) but it doesn't actually make sense looking at how successful German cars are in the UK. Weird.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Did you know that Clarkson chose the RR Evoque as car of the year for 2011 ?

The first incident

The new BMW 6 series Gran Coupe suddenly looks appealing!! 

BiTurbo:

Did you know that Clarkson chose the RR Evoque as car of the year for 2011 ?

The first incident

I didn't know that this funny RR model was made by Ferrari

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"Form follows function"

RC:

If TG is supposed to be that highly opinionated, why do they trash only certain cars and not all of them ? As Wonderbar said, they love to bash german cars (well, the british boulevard press loves to bash anything German ...apparently they forgot that WWII is over for some while) but it doesn't actually make sense looking at how successful German cars are in the UK. Weird.

I don't think this is true at all.  Clarkson loves Mercedes, and they hugely respect M cars (they tease them for being too complicated in the same way they tease British cars for (generally) being badly built).

They do play on the war thing - which is only because they haven't been able to play on the football since 1966!! - but the fact that the German equivalent TV show allowed them to do so (you might recall the brilliant episode when they arrived in neutral Belgium in Spitfires!) demonstrates that the subject is no longer considered taboo by either country?  

In fact I hazard to say that it just goes to show how close the 2 countries are - the only thing that the Brits really don't like about Germans is that they have a tendency to steal all the deckchairs in holiday resorts.  And that's only because us Poms* are too hung over to get up early and place our towels on them first!**

(*I'm actually a Pom, so I can say that!)

**Health warning: this sentence contains blatant bilateral national stereotyping and should only be read by persons blessed with a sense of humour)

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

Budster:

They do play on the war thing - which is only because they haven't been able to play on the football since 1966!! -

Even 1966 has been under dispute

"Form follows function"

RC:

 (well, the british boulevard press loves to bash anything German ...apparently they forgot that WWII is over for some while)

Your remark reminded me of this clip from a popular 70s comedy

"Form follows function"

Fawlty Towers is and always will be my favorite and John Cleese is just epic in this episode (he got hit on the head and starts to treat his german guests as some sort of Nazis). This episode is actually a good example on how you can make fun of somebody without actually hurting somebody's feelings (the Germans in this episode are not portrayed as Nazis and/or idiots...like in Allo Allo for example). Btw: I also love Allo Allo.... ...next to Fawlty Towers, Dad's Army and Keeping Up Appearances one of the best british sitcoms.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I love Fawlty Towers His stereotyping ( like the Germans, Emanuel the waiter from Barcelona) is not offensive although if someone else was doing it, it might appear to be so. Perhaps, because John Cleese manages to make his character Basil Fawlty, appear more ridiculous with his attitude than those towards whom his attacks are directed.

Twelve episodes all in all and I like to watch them every time I want to laugh.

"Form follows function"

I always carry Fawlty Towers and Mr. Bean with me on my iPad, evergreen classics, you can watch them over and over again and they never get boring. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

reginos:

I love Fawlty Towers His stereotyping ( like the Germans, Emanuel the waiter from Barcelona) is not offensive although if someone else was doing it, it might appear to be so. Perhaps, because John Cleese manages to make his character Basil Fawlty, appear more ridiculous with his attitude than those towards whom his attacks are directed.

Twelve episodes all in all and I like to watch them every time I want to laugh.

Interestingly, Manuel is portrayed as Italian in the Spanish-dubbed version..!

There were 13 episodes made, not 12.  Interestingly, ask most people and they're convinced that there were at least a half dozen series made...!

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

Budster:

reginos:

I love Fawlty Towers His stereotyping ( like the Germans, Emanuel the waiter from Barcelona) is not offensive although if someone else was doing it, it might appear to be so. Perhaps, because John Cleese manages to make his character Basil Fawlty, appear more ridiculous with his attitude than those towards whom his attacks are directed.

Twelve episodes all in all and I like to watch them every time I want to laugh.

Interestingly, Manuel is portrayed as Italian in the Spanish-dubbed version..!

I've read that on Catalunyan TV he was portrayed as Mexican

There were 13 episodes made, not 12.  Interestingly, ask most people and they're convinced that there were at least a half dozen series made...!

I am almost sure that 12 is the correct number of episodes

"Form follows function"

Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)

Que? They say I am Mexican?

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"I don't mean to brag, but I am really good at self-deprecation."

Carrageous:

Que? They say I am Mexican?

Actually, the actor Andrew Sachs,  is German whose parents settled in England before WW II.

"Form follows function"

Back to topic: Today, the final decision will be taken and right now it stands 4:3 for the Cayenne I'm afraid.

The Panamera Turbo S is a great Porsche but it has two drawbacks I can't ignore:

1. Luggage room (even our X5M isn't almost big enough to fit my wife's and the kids' luggage): The Panamera just doesn't have the luggage room the Cayenne has and when we use the ski bag, things get even worse. We tried with a Panamera I have currently in my garage, a Hybrid btw.

2. Rear room: There is a lot of space in the rear but the kids don't like the somehow claustrophobic feel in the back, probably because of the lower seating position and the smaller window(s). My daughter jumped out from the rear after  half a minute, she felt "bad" like she sad and my son didn't have his typical Panamera enthusiasm anymore, he had "mixed feelings" (which in his language means he doesn't like it).

Wife likes Panamera but she says the Cayenne is the better car for us, kids definitely like the Cayenne more now, so the Panamera Turbo S is, unfortunately, almost for sure not in the game anymore. 

I will try again this evening, when I return the Panamera S Hybrid back to Porsche but I'm pretty sure that nothing will change.

A couple of words regarding the Hybrid: Average fuel consumption was 13.1 l / 100 km, just for your information. I wasn't using the throttle too much due to snowy weather but I suppose this is the real world fuel consumption, I really don't understand how car journalists can get an average below 10 l fuel consumption, unless of course you drive like a granny.  Otherwise, the Hybrid works pretty well, you actually don't see or feel much and this is a good thing. The engine is sufficient for city driving but at speeds over 120 kph, the power is kind of lame for this kind of car. I can't even imagine how lame the Panamera V6 must feel. The Hybrid also had constantly traction issues (streets covered with little snow or just wet), so my advice would be: If you really want a Panamera, get the Panamera 4S or Turbo/S. Everything else doesn't really make sense in my opinion.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

So get the Cayenne then! Easy as that.

Think your bad fuel consumption is due to the snow as you said you had there. Should be much better in dry.

Pana V6 should be better drivers car as it's lighter without the hybrid batteries.

dxpetrov:

So get the Cayenne then! Easy as that.

Think your bad fuel consumption is due to the snow as you said you had there. Should be much better in dry.

Pana V6 should be better drivers car as it's lighter without the hybrid batteries.

I was driving at average speeds and didn't really care about the snow , so I think the average fuel consumption was pretty accurate.

The Panamera V6 certainly feels lighter than the Hybrid but I still think that the best choices are 4S or Turbo/S.

Yes, I think I will get the Cayenne but the final decision will be taken by the kids this evening. My wife still wants the Panamera but she also knows that the kids would give us a tough time if we don't take their opinion into consideration and of course there is the luggage issue...my wife never travels light.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Yes, I agree. Panamera to me is the one with Porsche V8 in it. No place in there for Audi engines (as good as they may be)!

dxpetrov:

Yes, I agree. Panamera to me is the one with Porsche V8 in it. No place in there for Audi engines (as good as they may be)!

Most people I know, including two Panamera owners, actually think that the Panamera is a revamped VW Phaeton.  A couple of days ago, when I mentioned to the husband of one of my wife's friends that I'm considering getting a Panamera, he seriously looked at me and asked me why I would pay so much money for a Volkswagen. 

The whole VW/Porsche discussion in the media kind of confused people and I don't think this is a good thing but apparently those who are really interested in Porsche products, couldn't care less.  The Cayenne and the Panamera sell very well in Germany.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4