Crown

According to the latest rumors, Porsche is planning a more powerful engine with aprox. 300 hp for the Cayenne Diesel.

Not sure if I understood it right but this would be a new supercharged (!) Diesel engine.

I can't exclude I got this wrong (the supercharged part) but I asked several times and...

Maybe it is going to be a turbo and supercharged engine (VW built such an engine before but less powerful), I really don't have more on this.

Regarding the rumored Cayenne Turbo S: This model could be presented already in 2012, rumored power figure is aprox. 550 hp.

Nothing new on the rumored Cayenne GTS other than the fact that this car is coming.  Power output unknown but the recently rumored 440 hp don't seem to be realistic, 410-420 hp are more likely.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC,

whats your geuss on price point for the Cayenne turbo S?

RC:

According to the latest rumors, Porsche is planning a more powerful engine with aprox. 300 hp for the Cayenne Diesel.

Not sure if I understood it right but this would be a new supercharged (!) Diesel engine.

I can't exclude I got this wrong (the supercharged part) but I asked several times and...

Maybe it is going to be a turbo and supercharged engine (VW built such an engine before but less powerful), I really don't have more on this.

 

Maybe it`s the new 3.0 liter diesel biturbo, from VW,  that they will introduce first on the new Audi A6 Avant (313 bhp).

RC:

According to the latest rumors, Porsche is planning a more powerful engine with aprox. 300 hp for the Cayenne Diesel.

Not sure if I understood it right but this would be a new supercharged (!) Diesel engine.

I can't exclude I got this wrong (the supercharged part) but I asked several times and...

Maybe it is going to be a turbo and supercharged engine (VW built such an engine before but less powerful), I really don't have more on this.

Regarding the rumored Cayenne Turbo S: This model could be presented already in 2012, rumored power figure is aprox. 550 hp.

Nothing new on the rumored Cayenne GTS other than the fact that this car is coming.  Power output unknown but the recently rumored 440 hp don't seem to be realistic, 410-420 hp are more likely.

This is what I heard in the past too but...

Especially the "supercharged" part sounded kind of weird, this is why I passed this on.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

watt:

RC,

 

whats your geuss on price point for the Cayenne turbo S?

I'm sorry, I have no guess but I think that a price difference of at least 25000 EUR is realistic.

In the US, the price difference may be 30-35k USD.

I'm not quite sure I will go for the Cayenne Turbo S, as planned but rather for the Cayenne Turbo with Powerkit. The reason for that is simple: I get a better lease deal for the Turbo than for a completely new model (Turbo S). At least I hope so...

I know that the Turbo S models usually have many performance options as standard options but I still think that the difference between the Turbo and Turbo S doesn't justify such a huge price difference. Unless of course Porsche would throw the PCCB in, which they didn't with the Panamera Turbo S.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

KresoF1:

RC:

According to the latest rumors, Porsche is planning a more powerful engine with aprox. 300 hp for the Cayenne Diesel.

Not sure if I understood it right but this would be a new supercharged (!) Diesel engine.

I can't exclude I got this wrong (the supercharged part) but I asked several times and...

Maybe it is going to be a turbo and supercharged engine (VW built such an engine before but less powerful), I really don't have more on this.

 

Christian, Cayenne will get as S Diesel new 313ps/650Nm biturbo diesel engine from Audi. Done deal. Same engine will go to Panamera S Diesel.

When will be launched?

pjd:

KresoF1:

RC:

According to the latest rumors, Porsche is planning a more powerful engine with aprox. 300 hp for the Cayenne Diesel.

Not sure if I understood it right but this would be a new supercharged (!) Diesel engine.

I can't exclude I got this wrong (the supercharged part) but I asked several times and...

Maybe it is going to be a turbo and supercharged engine (VW built such an engine before but less powerful), I really don't have more on this.

 

Christian, Cayenne will get as S Diesel new 313ps/650Nm biturbo diesel engine from Audi. Done deal. Same engine will go to Panamera S Diesel.

 

When will be launched?

As for the new diesel, I suppose it will not replace the old one but rather be an "option", so that Porsche can ask a higher price for it?? Any idea on what a realistic price difference would be compared to the current diesel 

KresoF1:

pjd:

KresoF1:

RC:

According to the latest rumors, Porsche is planning a more powerful engine with aprox. 300 hp for the Cayenne Diesel.

Not sure if I understood it right but this would be a new supercharged (!) Diesel engine.

I can't exclude I got this wrong (the supercharged part) but I asked several times and...

Maybe it is going to be a turbo and supercharged engine (VW built such an engine before but less powerful), I really don't have more on this.

 

Christian, Cayenne will get as S Diesel new 313ps/650Nm biturbo diesel engine from Audi. Done deal. Same engine will go to Panamera S Diesel.

 

When will be launched?

 

Spring 2012 earliest.

Thanks Kreso 

Cayenne S Diesel and Cayenne Turbo S look attractive.

I will personally go for S Diesel - what will be it acceleration figures? Faster or Slower than S?

artur777:

Cayenne S Diesel and Cayenne Turbo S look attractive.

I will personally go for S Diesel - what will be it acceleration figures? Faster or Slower than S?

I suppose 6.x seconds, slightly slower than S of course. Price tag should be close to S though.

On a personal note I would like to say that I don't understand why somebody would get a Porsche Diesel, especially not the current version with 245 hp. 500 Nm of torque sounds impressive and the Cayenne Diesel feels powerful in the lower speed range but to get the true Porsche feel, you need more than 245 horses in a 2.0+ ton truck.

The rumored new Diesel is a different story but still...

I get it...lower fuel (Diesel) consumption but then, if fuel/Diesel cost or cost overall is important, why go for a Porsche and not an Audi, VW or BMW instead ?! They have a much better variety of Diesel models and some are really nice for less money.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Absolute true Christian,

Want a Panamera Diesel? For less money you can get 640d Coupe and for far less money you can get 535d or new A6 3.0TDI quattro(biturbo 313ps/650Nm and same engine goes to A7SB as well).

Same story for Cayenne Diesel-you can get VW Touareg V8 TDI for the same money.

Porsche diesel models are popular but, in truth they do not offer true Porsche feeling or offer good value for money. Want a Porsche? Stick to sportscar or choose V8 patrol versions. Of course, IMHO.

KresoF1:
Want a Porsche? Stick to sportscar or choose V8 patrol versions. Of course, IMHO.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

I agree with your comments on the Panamera diesel, which is too expensive and I would take a 740d x-drive over it any day.

Not having 4wd here is not that useful in winter time (past two winters were a nightmare). Yes, I have M+S tyres on my 3er but (i) it does not save the day if you have to make a hillstart and (ii) I get around still quite alright, but my wife can't / doesn't dare to drive the car anymore.

So a Panamera, which is too expensive in comparison to the competitors, without 4wd is a no go.

The Cayenne Diesel on the other hand is another story (for me and my wife). Honestly, I do not need a SUV and for my future replacement car (which according to my wife is not to happen in the near future) I would prefer a 530d X-drive Touring: fast enough for a diesel, a bit bigger than what I have, very comfortable, in short: a small 7 series. On a side note: the 5 is actually remarkably close priced to a Cayenne diesel. My wife does not like its looks however (something with the lines in the hood) and would go for an SUV (she is not that the tall and appreciates a higher seating position / also, with kids in mind somewhere for the feature an SUV is convenient for putting them in their child seats I was told):

- X5 30d/40d: I have driven it, but did not like the interior (looks the same as mine and not up to date in comparisn with the 5), basically, it is an old car in need for a replacement (you feel it as well in noise insulation etc); maybe the new one

- Range Sport: very nice to drive, but I question reliability; overweight, so fuel consumption is high, performance low

- Mercedes new M: not convinced by the look (less sporty / young / dynamic than e.g. Cayenne) and after having heard one of the senior people from a taxi company rattle on during a 3 hour drive back from Frankfurt how much problems they have with their S Classes diesel which they only use for the long distances (Frankfurt, Geneva etc), I am not in the mood for Mercedes  (the car actually broke down during our trip: Notlauf and Mercedes dealership could not tell what was wrong)

- VW Touareg: same basis as the Porsche, but my wife does not like the brand (yes, I know, with Porsche you pay more for the badge); I must be honest: fit & finish of the Cayenne seems better and I like the looks of the Cayenne more too.

- Q7 seems huge in comparison to the rest and my wife and I do not really like it

- Cayenne: sportier than the Mercedes, the VW and the RR Sport; more up to date than the BMW X5; I have a 911 and am happy with reliability and my dealership; although similarly priced to a 5, it has more backroom and bigger trunk (granted the Cayenne costs still a bit more and is slower); biggest range of all cars with the 100l tank (I often drive back and forth between Luxembourg, where I live and work, and Belgium for friends and family) and range is important as I do not like to stop all the time to re-fuel and from a pure psychological point of view (fuel prices are lower in Lux); I drove it and really (I mean REALLY) liked it (noise insulation, comfort with air suspension and PASM, fuel consumption during Autobahn runs, modulation of boot by moving back and forth rear bench, GPS system, ...)

As for the VW/Audi with V8, they really are much more expensive than the rest and would not be considered, so then the Cayenne is as fast or faster than the rest (with the exception of the X5 30d / X5 40d). Petrol is out of the question (40.000 km a year) as I would not want to pay the fuel price difference.

From the above, it is clear you can always argue in one direction or another, so the point is not to convince you of the Cayenne diesel, but rather show you that after having had a look at the market, the Cayenne diesel seems the best available car to some (and given that the waiting list is almost a year, I do not think I am alone on this).

Many people drive a Cayenne Diesel because it is a Porsche. Many of them don't even know how to spell the name right, they say Cheyenne instead of Cayenne. I have my share of experience with Cayenne Diesel owners, believe me. 

The Cayenne only makes sense starting with the S. The new Diesel with 300+ hp may be a challenge for the S but again, a Porsche with a Diesel ? Where is the fun in that ? You can argue all day long but  a Diesel in a Porsche is kind of the same like a Diesel in a sports car...or a Cab. 

I agree with your points on the competition but are you sure you aren't biased ? 

The only Diesel I would buy in a Cayenne would be some sort of monster Diesel, for example the one Audi uses in the V12 Diesel in the Q7. Amazing engine, it feels more powerful than anything I've driven so far but of course the weight kind of limits the real life driving experience. A Cayenne Diesel with 400+ hp...yes, I could imagine buying such a car but with 245 hp ? No way.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Hi RC,

I am very sure I AM biased  Not trying to cover that here.

The only SUVs I can really trow out on objective basis is RR Sport (which really is overweight with all the consequences) and the X5 (as its replacement is due / the replacement itself will be without doubt really nice, but most likely very closely priced to the Cayenne).

The thing is that I see myself forking out +/- 70k EUR for a 530 xd Touring or a Cayenne Diesel (which on Lux 15% VAT can be nicely equipped to my standards - without all the bells obviously), I could not pay 15k more for e.g. a V8 TDI Touareg (you have to draw the line somewhere ). I could also not pay 40k EUR for second hand Cayenne S and convince myself that for EUR 30k difference I can buy alot of petrol (my brain would not cope with).

As a car enthusiast, I agree with you: a Cayenne Diesel should only come worthy of the Porsche name and in a stoplight sprint it should not come behind the X5 30d ), but in real world with limits on spending power (not complaining here), for me the Cayenne Diesel makes sense: it would be a serious step up from my 3 series (even a tad quicker to 100) which I bought as the match between comfort and sportivity. Since I have my 911, the other car can be more comfort oriented. Also, the Cayenne Diesel is faster than the average car on the road in Belgium (Peugeot with 1.6 diesels or even 2 liter Audi diesels) and can easily cope with a cruising speed of 160 (above which you loose your licence in Belgium). If your wife then does not agree on a 5 (and she does some driving in the daily car too / she did e.g. almost 800 km this weekend), she gets a say in it too. And we all know women are not always working around the same concept of logic  : its not only about the best car (in which case the VW is the better deal than the Cayenne or the Q7 to my surprise is the cheapest of VW/X5/Cayenne when I asked for prices ), but also about looks (and hey, as my wife picked me to share her life with, who am I to start doubting her taste)...

In your case, I would not even consider a 245 bhp Cayenne either because (i) it would be a step down from what you have (for me, it would be stepping up) and (ii) I do not have the pleasure of driving on the Autobahn each and every day where "my" Cayenne Diesel could not follow the bunch. In the latter case, I would take the 530 xd (and would do some more effort to convince my wife). Granted, it would be nice if my next diesel car would go under 7 seconds to 100 (therefore curious to see how much the Diesel S will cost). On the price, as it will still be a 3 liter diesel, the price difference should IMO be more around EUR 8k (as is the difference between a X5 30d and X540d, which basically are comparable) than the EUR 15k between Cayenne and Cayenne S (not being optimistic about that one however - I only have checked the numbers very quickly).

Taking into account the current prices on Mk2 first generation Cayenne Turbo, one could buy a great car for less than 45k. Even if fuel consumption is atrocious, 40k price difference with a nicely equipped Cayenne Diesel really makes for a lot of the incremental costs. And there is no comparison in driving pleasure!

Business case makes sense!

--

 911 Carrera 3.2 - 968 CS - 997 Carrera

This is true, the prices for used first generation (even facelift) Cayenne Turbo and Cayenne Turbo S are extremely low. Nobody seems to like them and I don't understand why. They are fantastic cars and a real bargain. However, I wouldn't buy one because of the prejudice towards these "old" models (high fuel consumption). The new Cayenne seems to be very successful because it doesn't attract the attention the "older" models did. It also looks more japanese and smaller, a perfect design for Europe, the region of the Toyota iQ and Smart.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Carlos from Spain:
I didn't realise how smaller the new cayenne looks compared to the mkII until I saw them side by side in the dealership the other day, from the rear it looked like a Q5 next to a Q7, amazing.

Yes, indeed. The Porsche design folks at Weissach did an amazing job. Remove the Porsche badge front and rear and most people on the street won't even know what SUV this is.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

Saw a fist gen Mk2 Cayenne Turbo in an official PZ Germany priced at 44k with all the goodies (PCCB, panoramic roof,...). It is cheaper than a barely equipped X3 2.0d. This cannot be ignored, at least for the Spanish market where the Cayenne is not as demonized as in Germany.

 911 Carrera 3.2 - 997 Carrera

RC:

... a Porsche with a Diesel ? Where is the fun in that ? You can argue all day long but  a Diesel in a Porsche is kind of the same like a Diesel in a sports car...or a Cab.

 

 

Amen to that.  Keep diesels where they belong...in tractors. 

Mikla:

Saw a fist gen Mk2 Cayenne Turbo in an official PZ Germany priced at 44k with all the goodies (PCCB, panoramic roof,...). It is cheaper than a barely equipped X3 2.0d. This cannot be ignored, at least for the Spanish market where the Cayenne is not as demonized as in Germany.

I sold my former Cayenne Turbo S (Mk1) to Norway, so I know what you are saying.  In Germany, this car was impossible to sell, best offer was 35000 EUR only (with 50000 km only). Ouch. I was lucky.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

Mikla:

Saw a fist gen Mk2 Cayenne Turbo in an official PZ Germany priced at 44k with all the goodies (PCCB, panoramic roof,...). It is cheaper than a barely equipped X3 2.0d. This cannot be ignored, at least for the Spanish market where the Cayenne is not as demonized as in Germany.

I sold my former Cayenne Turbo S (Mk1) to Norway, so I know what you are saying.  In Germany, this car was impossible to sell, best offer was 35000 EUR only (with 50000 km only). Ouch. I was lucky.

RC, I just read your post about public reactions to your outing to the biergarten - and now this.  I find it confusing (and sad) that Porsche owners appear to be vilified and "demonised" in the heimat of the marque.  If anything, I would have expected exactly the opposite - Porsche should be regarded as a national treasure in Germany.

What is this?  Jealousy?  Envy?  Or the misguided condemnation of obsessive greens who think you're killing the planet by emitting more g/km of CO2 than they're comfortable with.

I live in a country with arguably the highest wealth and income inequalities in the world (certainly far higher than in Germany), and I haven't experienced this level of condemnation.

PureBlue:

 

RC, I just read your post about public reactions to your outing to the biergarten - and now this.  I find it confusing (and sad) that Porsche owners appear to be vilified and "demonised" in the heimat of the marque.  If anything, I would have expected exactly the opposite - Porsche should be regarded as a national treasure in Germany.

What is this?  Jealousy?  Envy?  Or the misguided condemnation of obsessive greens who think you're killing the planet by emitting more g/km of CO2 than they're comfortable with.

I live in a country with arguably the highest wealth and income inequalities in the world (certainly far higher than in Germany), and I haven't experienced this level of condemnation.

Very good question. I think that people over here don't like other people to stand out in a way or another, it is difficult to explain.

Example: We were friends with a doctor and his wife for two years, our kids went together to Kindergarten, we met in our house and in their house but only after two years we found out, by mistake, that they own a Porsche 911. Amazing. We talked so much about cars, they saw my car(s) but always failed to mention that they also own a Porsche. I was very very upset about this and my wife too. Another example: The best (female) friend of my wife asked her why I'm driving a "penile enlargement". Her husband, he isn't my friend, he is an a.. and drives a VW Tiguan, always makes fun of my Porsche when we show up in it. Last time he was making fun of Porsche going bankrupt. Who needs enemies if you have such friends ?!

Most friends actually don't have a problem with my car(s) but I just wanted to point out the extreme in that matter.

Another problem may be that I look young(er) than I am and it may be difficult for some people, young and old, to accept somebody like me in a Porsche. 

Honestly, I really don't know. I'm a nice guy and I get along just fine with everybody but I pay a lot attention to details when people talk or make comments, so maybe this is my problem. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

I suppose there are petty, small-minded people all over the world.  While I don't like showing off or bragging (quite the opposite), my attitude is: I've worked hard over many years for my money, and paid millions in taxes along the way, so what I do with what's left is my business - if other people don't like it, tough! 

(By the way, that's millions of rands, not euros - I wish).

PureBlue:

I suppose there are petty, small-minded people all over the world.  While I don't like showing off or bragging (quite the opposite), my attitude is: I've worked hard over many years for my money, and paid millions in taxes along the way, so what I do with what's left is my business - if other people don't like it, tough! 

(By the way, that's millions of rands, not euros - I wish).

It is pretty extreme in Germany, believe me. The car is a status symbol to many and one's wealth seems to be judged by the car one is driving. I know a Porsche 997 owner who was a worker and just fullfilled his lifetime dream when he retired. He put all his saved money into that car, no kids and he wants to keep it for at least 10 years. Now his neighbors has started to comment that he has a "Geldscheisser", meaning that he is rich now. Oh well...

My car(s) are leased. I'm doing well but I'm no multi-millionaire and I have to look at every EUR I spend. I love cars, this is why I try to drive something nice. This doesn't make me rich but unfortunately you can't explain that to other people, they just don't get it. The worst ones btw. are those, who actually are wealthy too. Can't understand why.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

RC:

PureBlue:

I suppose there are petty, small-minded people all over the world.  While I don't like showing off or bragging (quite the opposite), my attitude is: I've worked hard over many years for my money, and paid millions in taxes along the way, so what I do with what's left is my business - if other people don't like it, tough! 

(By the way, that's millions of rands, not euros - I wish).

 

It is pretty extreme in Germany, believe me. The car is a status symbol to many and one's wealth seems to be judged by the car one is driving. I know a Porsche 997 owner who was a worker and just fullfilled his lifetime dream when he retired. He put all his saved money into that car, no kids and he wants to keep it for at least 10 years. Now his neighbors has started to comment that he has a "Geldscheisser", meaning that he is rich now. Oh well...

My car(s) are leased. I'm doing well but I'm no multi-millionaire and I have to look at every EUR I spend. I love cars, this is why I try to drive something nice. This doesn't make me rich but unfortunately you can't explain that to other people, they just don't get it. The worst ones btw. are those, who actually are wealthy too. Can't understand why.

It's surprising, Chirstian!

We live in a world of social diversity. Stereotypes should forgotten. Everybody chooses his own way of life.

RC:

PureBlue:

I suppose there are petty, small-minded people all over the world.  While I don't like showing off or bragging (quite the opposite), my attitude is: I've worked hard over many years for my money, and paid millions in taxes along the way, so what I do with what's left is my business - if other people don't like it, tough! 

(By the way, that's millions of rands, not euros - I wish).

 

It is pretty extreme in Germany, believe me. The car is a status symbol to many and one's wealth seems to be judged by the car one is driving. I know a Porsche 997 owner who was a worker and just fullfilled his lifetime dream when he retired. He put all his saved money into that car, no kids and he wants to keep it for at least 10 years. Now his neighbors has started to comment that he has a "Geldscheisser", meaning that he is rich now. Oh well...

My car(s) are leased. I'm doing well but I'm no multi-millionaire and I have to look at every EUR I spend. I love cars, this is why I try to drive something nice. This doesn't make me rich but unfortunately you can't explain that to other people, they just don't get it. The worst ones btw. are those, who actually are wealthy too. Can't understand why.

I'm experiencing a lot of these things too. Owning a "small" independant shop it's almost not tolerated you own a beautiful sportscar. It means you are cheating on people or something like that...

No one seems to realise we work 12 hours a day and lived the first 9 years in a home without bathingroom, with the toilet oustide and 3 years without TV. We invested all our gain in the business, bought an own home and lived without lots of luxury.

Now after 29 years of hard labour everyone sees only our benefits, but no one remembers the first 10 years. (we invested and stayed in our country while they were going on vacation abroad...)

All is resulting in driving a "normal car" every day and keeping the R8 out of sights as much as possible on working days.

It stays never in front...

The real carlovers instead now it and appreciate a co-pilotdrive though

And luckily we have rennteam to share our passion!

965 3.3turbo/  993 targa / 996 cab /997S cab

Audi R8  //  Audi A5 S-line 3.0tdi Quattro/ RR 4.4i