Crown

Grant:

Carlos from Spain:

I curious to what they are refering to as automatically double-declutching and how that affects the manual downshift procedure by the driver... wasn't that a technique needed back in the old days when gearboxes didn't have syncros? 

My guess is that it's similar to the system used by Nissan with the 370Z (moving the gear lever creates an automatic rev-match by the computer).

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello

That would make sense, but then why call it double-declutching? i.e. declucthing->moving into neutral->cluctching again->declucthing->moving into the lower gear->clutching. I looked at the original press release and it literally says double-declutching, not match-reving.

I told you, they are reintroducing the SportMatic... step by step  ...until it becomes PDK  Bye bye manual.

Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.

Carlos from Spain:

Grant:

Carlos from Spain:

I curious to what they are refering to as automatically double-declutching and how that affects the manual downshift procedure by the driver... wasn't that a technique needed back in the old days when gearboxes didn't have syncros? 

My guess is that it's similar to the system used by Nissan with the 370Z (moving the gear lever creates an automatic rev-match by the computer).

That would make sense, but then why call it double-declutching? i.e. declucthing->moving into neutral->cluctching again->declucthing->moving into the lower gear->clutching. I looked at the original press release and it literally says double-declutching, not match-reving.

I suspect that it is just a mistranslation. There isn't a German expression specifically meaning the same as "double-declutching". The expression "Zwischengas geben" is used to cover both rev-matching and double-declutching and the wrong one of the two English possibilities was chosen in this instance when the English version of the press release was drafted. 

fritz

fritz:

Carlos from Spain:

Grant:

Carlos from Spain:

I curious to what they are refering to as automatically double-declutching and how that affects the manual downshift procedure by the driver... wasn't that a technique needed back in the old days when gearboxes didn't have syncros? 

My guess is that it's similar to the system used by Nissan with the 370Z (moving the gear lever creates an automatic rev-match by the computer).

That would make sense, but then why call it double-declutching? i.e. declucthing->moving into neutral->cluctching again->declucthing->moving into the lower gear->clutching. I looked at the original press release and it literally says double-declutching, not match-reving.

I suspect that it is just a mistranslation. There isn't a German expression specifically meaning the same as "double-declutching". The expression "Zwischengas geben" is used to cover both rev-matching and double-declutching and the wrong one of the two English possibilities was chosen in this instance when the English version of the press release was drafted. 

That makes a whole lot of sense Fritz! thanks for the clarification 

Carlos from Spain:

fritz:

Carlos from Spain:

Grant:

Carlos from Spain:

I curious to what they are refering to as automatically double-declutching and how that affects the manual downshift procedure by the driver... wasn't that a technique needed back in the old days when gearboxes didn't have syncros? 

My guess is that it's similar to the system used by Nissan with the 370Z (moving the gear lever creates an automatic rev-match by the computer).

That would make sense, but then why call it double-declutching? i.e. declucthing->moving into neutral->cluctching again->declucthing->moving into the lower gear->clutching. I looked at the original press release and it literally says double-declutching, not match-reving.

I suspect that it is just a mistranslation. There isn't a German expression specifically meaning the same as "double-declutching". The expression "Zwischengas geben" is used to cover both rev-matching and double-declutching and the wrong one of the two English possibilities was chosen in this instance when the English version of the press release was drafted. 

That makes a whole lot of sense Fritz! thanks for the clarification 

Agreed -- this looks like a slightly misleading translation of the original press release...

• Saugmotor
• Wassergekühlter Sechszylinder-Boxermotor mit 4 Ventiltechnik
• Hubraum: 3.996 cm³
• Hub: 80,4 mm
• Bohrung: 102,7 mm
• Motorleistung: 368 kW (500 PS)
• Kraftstoffqualität: Superplus bleifrei, 98 ROZ
• Trockensumpfschmierung
• Multi-Point-Kraftstoffeinspritzung (sequentiell)
• Elektronisches Motormanagement MS 4.0 von Bosch
• E - Gas mit Zwischengasfunktion
• Rennabgasanlage mit Vor- und Endschalldämpfer
• Endschalldämpfer mit doppelten Endrohren mittiger Anordnung

So that does sound like the new 991 Carrera 4S offers an optional "throttle-blip" function for the 7-speed manual transmission...

 

Carlos from Spain:

fritz:

Carlos from Spain:

Grant:

Carlos from Spain:

I curious to what they are refering to as automatically double-declutching and how that affects the manual downshift procedure by the driver... wasn't that a technique needed back in the old days when gearboxes didn't have syncros? 

My guess is that it's similar to the system used by Nissan with the 370Z (moving the gear lever creates an automatic rev-match by the computer).

That would make sense, but then why call it double-declutching? i.e. declucthing->moving into neutral->cluctching again->declucthing->moving into the lower gear->clutching. I looked at the original press release and it literally says double-declutching, not match-reving.

I suspect that it is just a mistranslation. There isn't a German expression specifically meaning the same as "double-declutching". The expression "Zwischengas geben" is used to cover both rev-matching and double-declutching and the wrong one of the two English possibilities was chosen in this instance when the English version of the press release was drafted. 

That makes a whole lot of sense Fritz! thanks for the clarification 

There's an Italian saying, "traduttore, traditore." That is, "translator, traitor."    

fritz

Latest Porsche 911 Performs the Perfect Shift … Without You

    

Thanks Boxster Coupe GTS 

Sorry to say, but this 'Perfect Shift' is lame

HeavyMetalThunder:

Sorry to say, but this 'Perfect Shift' is lame

Stop resisting now and get PDK 

Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.

I don't get it . Either you go for PDK and you have all the automated stuff for good reasons or you do not want that and then a fully manual is the only way. This hybrid system is useless , unless it is only a way to slowly get the last resisting  dynausors to convert to 'assisted trannys '

 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Gnil:

I don't get it . Either you go for PDK and you have all the automated stuff for good reasons or you do not want that and then a fully manual is the only way. This hybrid system is useless , unless it is only a way to slowly get the last resisting  dynausors to convert to 'assisted trannys '

Right. I can only see one point with this system... to convert the dinosaurs... step by step 

The new 7-speed manual was developed from the PDK box, right? So should be easy to add new automated features step by step until it is a PDK again and everyone are happy. In my view it is the right thing to do. The 991 is now so refined that a manual box feels like stone age.

For the manual enthusiasts there are plenty of 997.2 cars around which offer similar performance and more driver involvement.

Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.

just got some interesting info on upcoming turbo and cayenne diesel s

Cayenne Diesel S – introduction jan 13 – 4.2l V8 360-380 HP

991 Turbo AND !!! Turbo S introduction sept 13 IAA – availability on market jan 14

Both get a different even wider body as 991 4s. Also it’s the first time that Non S and S hits at the same time the market. Price step up will be huge. Turbo will start at around 180k € (maybe even higher) in Germany. Turbo S will be way higher and start at around 210k €. That said the difference between turbo and turbo s are not only options Performance from the Turbo should be "slightly" better the 458 and MP4-12C. Turbo S ..... 

GT3 will get body from 991 4s, GT3 RS will get body from Turbo.

bluelines:

HeavyMetalThunder:

Sorry to say, but this 'Perfect Shift' is lame

Stop resisting now and get PDK 

YOU

ME

hunterone:

991 Turbo AND !!! Turbo S introduction sept 13 IAA – availability on market jan 14

Both get a different even wider body as 991 4s. Also it’s the first time that Non S and S hits at the same time the market. Price step up will be huge. Turbo will start at around 180k € (maybe even higher) in Germany. Turbo S will be way higher and start at around 210k €. That said the difference between turbo and turbo s are not only options Performance from the Turbo should be "slightly" better the 458 and MP4-12C. Turbo S ..... 

2014 is still al long time ago, especially if you don't want a car from the first series.

By then, the Scuderia successor will boost out 620 hp, the spicy version of the MP4-12C will have considerably more horses and the new Gallardo won't stay behind, I guess. So the Turbo/S will face different competition.

If prices are correct (and I don't doubt they are), I really wonder where the rumoured midengined Porsche model will fit in and if the performance of the forthcoming Turbo S should be as you said, life for the model between Turbo and 918 won't be easier. 

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

thats the same i thought, but as in an interview stated (dont know which right now) about the 961 price range it will be generously somewhere between 250k-800k i think the mid engined version is as fast as the 918 and the price will be arround 350k-400k . Dont know where the GT2 versions of 991 will take place when the turbo s is that sharp.

991 Turbo AND !!! Turbo S introduction sept 13 IAA – availability on market jan 14

Both get a different even wider body as 991 4s. Also it’s the first time that Non S and S hits at the same time the market. Price step up will be huge. Turbo will start at around 180k € (maybe even higher) in Germany. Turbo S will be way higher and start at around 210k €. That said the difference between turbo and turbo s are not only options Performance from the Turbo should be "slightly" better the 458 and MP4-12C. Turbo S ..... 

GT3 will get body from 991 4s, GT3 RS will get body from Turbo.

Considering the modest power gains on latest cars from Porsche (991 Carrera and Carrera S, Cayenne Turbo II with the same power as facelifted original Cayenne) I somehow doubt the 991 Turbo will be faster than 12C. I reckon 0-200km/h in 9,5s for 991 Turbo and around 9,0s for 991 Turbo S, with 991 Turbo having 530hp and 991 Turbo S having 560hp based on history of 911 line. I strongly doubt Porsche will get crazy and offer much more. So pricing should be also modest.  

I seriously doubt that pricing.....

porsche will sell significantly less turbos if they do that and they want to sell as many units as possible.

hunterone:

 

 

991 Turbo AND !!! Turbo S introduction sept 13 IAA – availability on market jan 14

Are we talking about introduction at this year IAA or 2013IAA in frankfurt?

palenimbus:

hunterone:

991 Turbo AND !!! Turbo S introduction sept 13 IAA – availability on market jan 14

Are we talking about introduction at this year IAA or 2013IAA in frankfurt?

This year is Paris motor show, IAA will be in 2013.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

hunterone:

 

just got some interesting info on upcoming turbo and cayenne diesel s

Cayenne Diesel S – introduction jan 13 – 4.2l V8 360-380 HP

991 Turbo AND !!! Turbo S introduction sept 13 IAA – availability on market jan 14

Both get a different even wider body as 991 4s. Also it’s the first time that Non S and S hits at the same time the market. Price step up will be huge. Turbo will start at around 180k € (maybe even higher) in Germany. Turbo S will be way higher and start at around 210k €. That said the difference between turbo and turbo s are not only options Performance from the Turbo should be "slightly" better the 458 and MP4-12C. Turbo S ..... 

GT3 will get body from 991 4s, GT3 RS will get body from Turbo.

That's some pretty specific info.  Good news, because finally the 911 turbo S doesn't have to follow some old tradition of coming out a few years before the end of cycle.  Also, good news if you want a different body size than the 4s, for even more distinction.  Unfortunately, it comes with an even higher price premium.

2005 997S Blk/Blk

0-200 for 9-9,5 secs is too fast for 991 turbo and turbo s

I expect lower figures 10-10,5 secs...

Does anybody else think Porsche is slowly trying to make the manual transmission more and more like the PDK, so they can slowly convert everyone?

Carrara:

Does anybody else think Porsche is slowly trying to make the manual transmission more and more like the PDK, so they can slowly convert everyone?

They're going to have to try much harder to convert me

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello

Grant:

Carrara:

Does anybody else think Porsche is slowly trying to make the manual transmission more and more like the PDK, so they can slowly convert everyone?

They're going to have to try much harder to convert me

 With the 991 7 speed manual based on the PDK transmission, it  appears our options will be limited.  It will be interesting to see if the 991 GT3 has a PDK as it's primary transmission.

2006 997 C2S Cab, Triple Black,  2006 Cayenne Titanium Iceland Silver Metalic New York

"GT3 will get body from 991 4s, GT3 RS will get body from Turbo"

991 4S , and 991 Turbo is same body.....   

Question is, will they build both a normal body GT-3, and an RS Version as well...

Will they all be Wide Body, will they all be Sport PDK...... I certainly hope not.

Revvv  

No it is not the same body. 991 turbo will be wider than 4s.

Carrara:

Does anybody else think Porsche is slowly trying to make the manual transmission more and more like the PDK, so they can slowly convert everyone?

I think I have said that 10 times now  So yes, definitely think that.

Manual is soon dead. For the dinosaurs that don't want to "convert" there are plenty of older 911 generations around. Why would you get the latest and greatest 911 with  all it's new features... and then get it as manual?! Makes little sense to me. Then get a "proper" air-cooled 911 instead without all the snick snack... and stop moaning about Porsche evolving and staying on top of the game 

Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.

I think you are missing the point here, why would people still like to ride bicycle if you can be more efficient using motorcycle?

sand8dune:

I think you are missing the point here, why would people still like to ride bicycle if you can be more efficient using motorcycle?

I think you are missing the point that it is like buying a motorcycle... but still wanting the pedals 

Do you want the 911 without electrical steering too? No adaptive dampers? No stability management? No torque vectoring? No active roll bars? No water cooled engine?

Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.