Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    991 rear end evolution

    I'm new to the forum, having just ordered a new Carrera GTS.  Consequently I've been very interested in the "wait-don't wait" debate on the new 991.Smiley 26

    As this is my 1st 911 (and I've waited decades) I could have waited a little longer (and as I live in South Africa it might have been a little longer than that tooSmiley 22) but the lure of such a loaded 997, which is recognised as being the best Carrera yet by 99% of people proved too much.Smiley 30

    Which then of course led me to consider what I wasn't getting, in the evolution stakes.  To be honest, I'm also a huge 993 fan, not just because of the "last of the air-cooled" stuff (and the fact that the 996 wasn't really up to it at first) but because the 993 just looked great from every angle (especially, I think, from the front three quarters).  It looked squat, menacing, cat-like and meaningful.  If I could afford a weekend-only car as well as the GTS, I'd get one in a flash.

    That took me to an appraisal of the 997 that I'm getting, ...and the 991 that I'm not.  Call me bias, but if the 996 (and then by default the 997) dumbed down the adjectives I gave to the 993 above, I find the 991  dumbs them down further.  Dumb and dumber then, if I were to be truly unkind.

    I just think that the 991 rear end is just way too busy... (If the mock-up is anything to go by).  Instead of seeing a 911, I see an Audi TT, or a Chrysler Crossfire, or a touch of Chris Bangle from BMW. 

    Well, not quite of course, but I do see a fashionable busy-ness.  And fashion trends change, so they appear to be designing a car that will have to change with fashion.

    And surely that's not evolution?Smiley 26

    Perhaps this will be the "996 scrambled-egg headlights" part of the 991..?

    I've pulled out some rear-end photos taken from similar angles.  What do you think..?

     

    (I hope my first thread doesn't upset anyone!)

     

    993c2s6.JPG

    Porsche 911 Carrera GTS Rear.png

    Neuer-Porsche-911-560x373-ef9846251bd3500e.jpg

     


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    Since the 991 has not yet been shown in public without camouflage it's a little bit early to pass judgement on its rear-end looks. Smiley 


    --

    fritz


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    If the 991 rear-end you depict is accurate...you have a valid point.

    In any case I can assure you that you will not regret ordering the GTS.  I've had mine for 6 months and wouldn't swap it for any first generation 991..

    If Porsche decide to release a 991 GTS early, the next car I will consider would be a second generation GTS...

    Welcome to Rennteam - perhaps you could let us have some spec' details of the car you have ordered?  

        


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    fritz:

    Since the 991 has not yet been shown in public without camouflage it's a little bit early to pass judgement on its rear-end looks. Smiley 

     
    +1 Exactly Smiley

    Also, this is not just about looks .... it's about performance even more so ...

    From the information known so far, the 991 seems to be so much faster round the Nordschleife than the outgoing 997 that, come launch, the performance of this car is going to blow us away ...

    Indeed, if the performance improvement is big enough, the difference in looks will seem relatively less important ...

    Looks are always subjective ... some love the 993 most ... I love the 993 too ... but the car that makes me feel most excited is the 997 GT3 RS 4.0. Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder ...

    And, beyond looks, what changes over time is how well a certain look ages and also how much one continues to appreciate a certain look ... with the 993, it's already a mature look that has fully settled in our minds ... more recent models are still ageing in our minds and how we will finally view them is still taking shape ...

    --

    RT Moderator 
    - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    John H:

    ... In any case I can assure you that you will not regret ordering the GTS.  I ... wouldn't swap it for any first generation 991.. .... Welcome to Rennteam ...    

     
    Agreed - I have no doubt that he will not regret this order - the 997 Carrera GTS is a real gem Smiley

    Any first generation 991? I totally respect your choice for the reasons you have previously given John. Speaking personally, while the 997 Carrera GTS is really wonderful, were I in that position, I could easily swap a 997 Carrera GTS in a hummingbird's heartbeat for a 991 GT3. The 997 Carrera GTS is easily the best Carrera so far but IMvHO it doesn't match the excitement that one can experience in a 997.2 GT3 so the 991 GT3 can only take this up a few notches.

    No disrespect - just my 2 cents Smiley

    Yes, a warm welcome to Rennteam - hope you enjoy hanging out here Smiley

    --

    RT Moderator 
    - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

     After some venting and rationalizing your purchase, it is time to look forward to your GTS. Don't worry about the 991. Enjoy your new car.


    --

     


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    I just thought it would be nice to hear other peoples' views on the rendering if it's accurate...? (I said "if the mock-up is anything to go by"...)

    I was referring to the first 991 Carreras about not wanting a 1st generation - and even here I meant no disrespect, in fact I'm sure most of you guys would admit that the first 996 is still a wonderful car, but perhaps not a truly great car.  But  I'm sure by the time the GT3 comes out, they'll have licked any early issues.  But I wouldn't get the GT3 for everyday driving anyway (not that I don't love it) - but that's another old chestnut, of course!

    Can I put if differently then, if it were accurate (subjunctive), what would you think..?!

     


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    nberry:

    .... it is time to look forward to your GTS. Don't worry about the 991. Enjoy your new car.

     
    Exactly Smiley Enjoy your car when it comes Smiley


    --


    RT Moderator 
    - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    Budster:

    I just thought it would be nice to hear other peoples' views on the rendering if it's accurate...? (I said "if the mock-up is anything to go by"...)

    I was referring to the first 991 Carreras about not wanting a 1st generation - and even here I meant no disrespect, in fact I'm sure most of you guys would admit that the first 996 is still a wonderful car, but perhaps not a truly great car.  But  I'm sure by the time the GT3 comes out, they'll have licked any early issues.  But I wouldn't get the GT3 for everyday driving anyway (not that I don't love it) - but that's another old chestnut, of course!

    Can I put if differently then, if it were accurate (subjunctive), what would you think..?!

     

     
    Hey, we're just chatting here ... no need to worry about defending your view, approach or choice of words ...

    When you are in a position to enjoy a new Porsche, it's all good SmileySmileySmiley


    --


    RT Moderator 
    - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    Don't misunderstand my post. You have already persuaded yourself to buy the GTS. A good decision.Smiley But in doing so you seemed to want to denigrate the styling of the 991. Smiley

    MY point is live and enjoy your decision. No need to find comfort in other people views.Smiley

    BTW, welcome to the forum. We would be interested in you're driving impressions of the GTS. Keep us posted.  Smiley


    --

     


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    Thanks, will do  .  

     


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    easy_rider911:
    John H:

    ... In any case I can assure you that you will not regret ordering the GTS.  I ... wouldn't swap it for any first generation 991.. .... Welcome to Rennteam ...    

     
    Agreed - I have no doubt that he will not regret this order - the 997 Carrera GTS is a real gem Smiley

    Any first generation 991? I totally respect your choice for the reasons you have previously given John. Speaking personally, while the 997 Carrera GTS is really wonderful, were I in that position, I could easily swap a 997 Carrera GTS in a hummingbird's heartbeat for a 991 GT3. The 997 Carrera GTS is easily the best Carrera so far but IMvHO it doesn't match the excitement that one can experience in a 997.2 GT3 so the 991 GT3 can only take this up a few notches.

    No disrespect - just my 2 cents Smiley

    Easy - Of course, I was referring to the Carrera range... not including the GT3 or GT2 models.  However, I don't regard either as 'daily drivers' so, although they will be released later in the 991 life cycle, they are not for me unless I become more of a tracking person and need one for that purpose.  At present I don't.. so my preference, on an every day basis, remains as I previously stated.  One of each would be ideal in a perfect world..Smiley

     

     

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

     Welcome to the forum ! You have secured yourself a fantastic car in the GTS at a bargain. The 991 will probably be much more expensive for that kind of options.

    As to the back.... we need to wait and see. No point to extrapolate on something still camouflaged.


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    John H:
    .... the GT3 or GT2 models.  However, I don't regard either as 'daily drivers' ...  


    Funnily enough, I think that is probably true up to the 997.1 GT3 and 997.1 GT3 RS. I think the 997.2 GT3 is the first 911 GT car that really can be used as a daily driver.

    It is the first 911 GT car to have PSM and it has a front lift system for speedbumps, driveways etc ...

    While it is outstanding on a track, it is also great for spirited drives on B roads ... I think it can be used as a daily driver despite the heavier clutch ... I personally regard it as a daily driver and track tool rolled in one.

    Maybe my perspective has just become skewed by those trips to the Nordschleife, PSDS courses etc ... Smiley


    --


    RT Moderator 
    - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    easy_rider911:
     I personally regard it as a daily driver and track tool rolled in one.


    +1Smiley


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    Nah, can't agree I'm afraid.  I also think the rear wing of these cars is far too much on the road!  Maybe I'm showing my age - heaven forbid..

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    Welcome to the forum. I spent half an hour around a 991 yesterday and can tell you that the above rendering is not accurate.


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    Ferdie - tell us.. go on tell us....

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    John H:

    Ferdie - tell us.. go on tell us....

     

     Yeah spill !   you can't just say "oh i spent half an hour around a 991..." and leave us like that Smiley


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    That kind of teasing is just deliberate torture ...


    --


    RT Moderator 
    - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    Okay, okay, I try to collect all the pieces from memory... I did, on purpose, avoid to take any pictures of the car but anybody who is keen to see the car in reality should just make the trip to Stuttgart and wait at one of the city streets for a 991 to pass by.

    As always, especially on a Porsche, the car looks much better in reality than on the numerous spy shots that are already around. What surprised me the most were the proportions as the car is looking considerably longer than its predecessor. Same goes for the front track which is, as reported, wider as well and does look like this. Surprisingly the rear end looks very compact, the shoulder line of the rear wings seem to be higher than on the 997 and shaped in a slightly more angular way. That impression is also supported by the surface treatment around rear window and engine bonnet (hood).

    The shape of the taillights is different from the 997 and, unless they masked off certain parts, also from the above renderings. I was a bit irritated by the size and position of the retractable wing on the back but, since I only saw it on a car that passed by from a distance, cannot give a comment about its mechanism.

    What surprised me the most was the sound of the engine, very raw and even present at idle. Definitely louder than any PSE I have ever heard so inclined to believe that this will be changed for production. Nothing new to say about the interior, the cars are still driving around with camouflage (incl. the turbo-lookalike stickers) and covering the interior. Considering its release date at this year´s Frankfurt IAA, quite surprising to me.

    Well, that´s it. Will post some pictures from the Porsche Museum on a separate thread.


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    Thanks for the info ...


    --


    RT Moderator 
    - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    Budster:

    I just think that the 991 rear end is just way too busy... (If the mock-up is anything to go by).  Instead of seeing a 911, I see an Audi TT, or a Chrysler Crossfire, or a touch of Chris Bangle from BMW. 

    Well, not quite of course, but I do see a fashionable busy-ness.  And fashion trends change, so they appear to be designing a car that will have to change with fashion.

    And surely that's not evolution?Smiley 26

    [...]


    (I hope my first thread doesn't upset anyone!)


    Budster,

    welcome once again to the forum. In addition to my above comment, I have to say that I find the 991´s back end to be anything but busy. It rather follows the pattern that Porsche established on the Panamera, beign devoid of significant graphical elements or surface treatment. To be honest, the 991´s rear reminded me a bit of the Panamera or AM Vantage in that all three feature a fastback rear window (if that is the correct term) and a fender (bumper) that covers a comparatively large segment of the back end.

    There can be no denial that Porsche has become more fashionable with its watercooled models but obviously has to do so to maintain its salesnumbers. I find, just as you, the GTS to be a great example of a contemporary 911.


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

     Great infos Ferdie, thank`s 


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

     Thanks Ferdie for these 1st hand infos that are much more interesting then the spy pics 


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    You´re welcome, guys! Smiley


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    Hello Budster,

    Since it took 7 years for the GTS to emerge from the 997-911, it would seem wise to enjoy the GTS now.

    It will always be a vluable car, and you can swap after 2-3 years of the 991, so any bugs are out, and a little diversity has emerged

    The new1president indicates new approachs,  so there may never be another GT3 etc or GTS.!

    Enjoy the present! 

    CHeers to all ,

    KiwiCanuk


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

    Wise words indeed - totally agree with you..

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: 991 rear end evolution

     

    Welcome Budster!      You will absolutely love the GTS!!     .

    ...and no doubt we ALL love other models from the past, present and what is yet to come too! ...maybe sooner, maybe later!  

    Porsche past, present and future...it's all good!!


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 3/28/24 3:21 AM
    watt
    689908 1780
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 2/19/24 11:51 PM
    Wonderbar
    409417 564
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 5/12/23 12:11 PM
    W8MM
    255831 288
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48
    235065 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA
    65577 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut
    4651 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    858169 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant
    774273 3868
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Porsche 911 Turbo S (2020) 4/6/23 7:43 AM
    crayphile
    448060 1276
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry
    379109 1526
    Porsche GT4RS 2/22/24 5:16 AM
    tso
    365766 1424
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker
    360917 797
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut
    354869 2401
    Lambo Aventador and SV 3/30/23 1:59 PM
    CGX car nut
    279337 724
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 4/21/23 8:09 AM
    the-missile
    275724 550
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 3/14/24 8:55 PM
    blueflame
    272661 658
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    248274 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug
    225178 346
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel
    218004 488
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel
    196892 101
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug
    155376 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut
    126943 144
    Ferrari [2022] Ferrari Purosangue (SUV) 4/15/23 5:20 AM
    watt
    120538 141
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA
    106010 303
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM
    102523 685
    Others Valkyrie final design? 4/28/23 2:45 AM
    Rossi
    97656 219
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    81053 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame
    74339 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM
    52137 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 3/16/24 9:27 PM
    WhoopsyM
    23093 237
    132 items found, displaying 1 to 30.