Crown

 I am a not a race track man and I do not claim to know about the intricacies of a the exact dynamics of cars

However I have driven porsches and find them a dream  . Its the only car that I feel my posterior is one on one with  road and sadly I do like the whine I get as I go faster and faster on motorways and roads

Alas I have had too many points on my licences and I can not afford to lose , and plus as I get older race track driving has to take a back seat 

So I saw the coupe , and cabriolet 2 wd and 4 wd and now this GTS version 

For someone like me who does road city driving primarily , and yes I have no qualms about driving a porsche in town and I do have a rhino skin as life moves forward , a cabriolet for all its "non pure" porsche philosophy sits fine with me 

Although it would be interseting to know people opinion on porsche 911 convetribles in terms of ride qaulity , running costs etc 

What I do not know to this date just how bad or good is the 2 wd / 4wd in rain snow . Is it really that much of a difference? IS the extra grip that much worth it ? Resale values I don't see too much of a difference to be honest and the car will be leaning on the comfort side as oppposed to the race side ---apologies to all die hard race orientated traditional porsche fans and driver--

I am not a STIG or a Hamilton but you could say the more "modern" porsche want to be driver. 

I plan to use the porsche as an everyday car as well 

Secondly is the gTS cabriolet really worth it compared to a 4 wd 4s cabriolet , the price is roughly the same at base level 

So in summary 

1 2wd or 4 wd ( done the search they all talk about race tracks and not everyday usability and practicality 

2 cabriolet --living with it 

3 opinion on GTS cabrilet 

Thank you 

Sincerely 

Consider you lived in the UK, 4wd is a much much better selection.

Where i live, we have similar weather to the UK and the added traction of 4wd is a no brainer, there is no drama, just planted feel no matter the condition. I drive my turbo year round, rain, snow, sun, whenever I want to, not limited by weather.

But the GTS package is such a good value it's hard to pass up.

 Whoopsy, is absolutely right.

Based on your needs your better off with the AWD Porsche Cab with the GTS package. Unfortunately, you're going to have to address the anemic exhaust issue whatever you get.

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both are great cars. its more of a personal preference.

i found my carrera s to offer very very good traction. then again, we dont have rain or icy conditions here.

for uk conditions i would still go with rear wheel drive.

In rain the 4WD gives more confidence as it feels more planted and you will travel more relaxed with less stress in bad weather. That is, if you do very high speeds in these conditions. In the 70-100mph range you won't notice much difference.

This doesn't mean that the 2WD is a "sunny days only" type of car. Far from it,  but it will be more demanding to drive fast in foul conditions. Of course you could always slow down a bit. The depth of the tyre tread is very important for Porsche when it rains. Most accidents happen due to neglected tyres.

2WD offers a more rewarding driving experience with a more sensitive steering feel. But many owners don't even notice these things.

Cabriolet tops are very well  made and well insulated from rain and noise. So it is a matter of taste. Not vandal-proof of course!

The GTS is the best 2WD 911 and the best value. So if you go 2WD it's the default choice.

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"Form follows function"

You know, 911 are such great cars, even the rwd are surprising good in the snow, the engine over the drive wheel gives it added traction, like fwd with the engine in the front.

But cornering in foul weather is a different story, with so little weight over the front wheels, it will tends to plow until you lift off then it will snap around, over the years Porsche has tamed the beast but it's still there. 4wd has the advantage of the front wheels pulling through the corners in foul weather. In any case, modern traction control tends to mask most of the deficit and you really can't go wrong picking any 911 versions.

reginos:

 

2WD offers a more rewarding driving experience with a more sensitive steering feel. But many owners don't even notice these things.

The GTS is the best 2WD 911 and the best value. So if you go 2WD it's the default choice.

 

 

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"Form follows function"

 That' why I sold my 4S to get a 2S and I drive it all year long, that means also in the snow .

The 4S was much better in snow and on wet roads, but the 2S does the job well enough for me.

I do track my car and prefer a sportier feel then confort.

As Reginos said, some people will not notice the nicer ''drive feeling'' on the 2S.

The other thing that I often encounter regarding perception of the difference between a 4s and 2 s, again the other day when talking to a Turbo owner  is:  '' but why did you 'downgrade' from the 4S to the 2 S ? '' 

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 997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm

Gnil:

The other thing that I often encounter regarding perception of the difference between a 4s and 2 s, again the other day when talking to a Turbo owner  is:  '' but why did you 'downgrade' from the 4S to the 2 S ? '' -

People are the same everywhere! Here, in a mediterranean climate the AWD Carrera model practically offers no advantage. But some people go for the 4S because they think it's higher up in the model hierarchy than the 2WD model. You know 4 is more than 2

"Form follows function"

rksingh:

1 2wd or 4 wd ( done the search they all talk about race tracks and not everyday usability and practicality 

2 cabriolet --living with it 

3 opinion on GTS cabrilet

Hello, welcome to the forum. Whether you prefer the 4WD over the 2WD is down to your personal opinion. If I were in your position, I´d decide for the GTS convertible and invest in some proper winter tires.

reginos:

Gnil:

The other thing that I often encounter regarding perception of the difference between a 4s and 2 s, again the other day when talking to a Turbo owner  is:  '' but why did you 'downgrade' from the 4S to the 2 S ? '' -

People are the same everywhere! Here, in a mediterranean climate the AWD Carrera model practically offers no advantage. But some people go for the 4S because they think it's higher up in the model hierarchy than the 2WD model. You know 4 is more than 2

Me think people just go by price, to them higher price = better.

The comments have all been good.

But one overriding point has not been made: ensure you invest in appropraite tires. NO speill checker, and it's late, so forgive thta.

For the UK, like our colleague in VCR, you need a good set  of winter tires. In Canada, Porsche offers a set of winter wheels-tires at a good price. Lean on your dealer for that. There are ~50% of the days in the UK/VCR when for night/cooler driving, and winter with a few weeks of spring and fall ,winter tires you need. Then you can choose 2WD or 4WD, after trying both..a 2WD with the best winters is going to be better than a 4WD with all-season or winter rubbish tires.

In Saskatoon, where the days are more like nrothern Norway than UK/VCR, I have 2WD and excellent high performance winters, for snow and ice. The trcation of the 911 is extraordinary ....

Because, in the summer, you may really like the 2Wd better: it is cheaper, lighter, and trdaional, and servicing is cheaper...4WD is expensive and heavy.

Now...summer. If you are going to drive Europe, and in conditions where and when the high performance summer tires that come standard  are best, thwen you have no choice. But the UK, like Saskatoon in summer/fall /spring, has a short 'hot' season, so ultra high performnace all-season are the best. Cayennes and Panameras come with, or you can specify all-season...and that is a better tire for the 180 warm days you are going to have.

Invest in tires and an extra set of wheels, and you will never regret it...you have twocars, in appearance and performance all year.

Cheers

ALanM KiwiCanuck

reginos:

But some people go for the 4S because they think it's higher up in the model hierarchy than the 2WD model. You know 4 is more than 2

Hahaha, so true  Actually a friend of mine sometimes uses this logic to fool people who have no clue about the Porsche model hierarchy. He claims to be the poor guy, because he could only afford a GT2: "Look at my friend P-J . He is really loaded. He owns a GT3"

@ rksingh: I'm with Ferdie and Gnil - GTS + set of winter tires = more driving fun, but still traction/grip enough even in bad weather as long as you play it safe  

public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road  : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

Bitko:
I might be wrong, but my dealership, Pfaff Porsche, told me that Porsche will start making 4WD GTS. I will be getting winter tires on my GTS and won't be driving it on snowy days. With you it seems like you wanna drive yours all year round, so if I were you I would try find out about the 4WD GTS.

Dealerships and crap talk(sorry to say that...)...nothing new to us.

No, there won't be a 4WD GTS, at least not a 997. The whole purpose of the GTS is actually the lack of 4WD in the wider body. Change your dealership, they don't have a clue about Porsches.

As to the question 4WD or not: Thanks god the Turbo has 4WD. Whoever drove a GT2 RS knows what I'm talking about, especially on wet pavement. The Carrera actually doesn't need 4WD, the traction is amazing even without 4WD and I have my share of experience with a 997 Carrera S on snow. Living in Switzerland or Austria or even in snowier parts of Canada, I would probably choose a 4WD Carrera but the UK? Not really necessary. Yes, the 4WD system helps on wet pavement too but like I said before, traction isn't really an issue in the 2WD Carrera models. Even the more powerful GT3 models(with the exception of the all new GT3 RS 4.0 maybe) don't show much traction issues.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

 Pfaff is a reputable dealership in Canada, I wouldn't judge them because of one salesman. Anyway, never had any issue with my 1st Gen 997 C2S in winter. And I don't foresee much of an issue with GTS either. Never drove a C4S or Turbo to tell you if they are much better in winter or not. 

Bitko:

 Pfaff is a reputable dealership in Canada, I wouldn't judge them because of one salesman. Anyway, never had any issue with my 1st Gen 997 C2S in winter. And I don't foresee much of an issue with GTS either. Never drove a C4S or Turbo to tell you if they are much better in winter or not. 

So change your salesman. 

Yes, the 4WD models are somehow better in winter...if you have very harsh winters and traction is a prime priority. Usually the ground clearance sets a limit to all 911 models, not traction issues.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

There is no try. Just do.

watt:
With two wd, just wait until you float your front tyres in heavy rain whilst next to a solid road barrier. Then drive a turbo fast with solid confidence and safety in same conditions..... I do a lot of dirt and gravel driving both dry and wet and four wd makes it a fun point and squirt game instead of a tense floating experience. When it's dry even two wd is fun and stable on dirt and gravel, but no where near as sure and you are much slower at the same risk level, but om muddy dirt roads after a rain, you,d be off the road I drive a turbo S cab a few days a week and on long road trips. Porsche soft tops are so well engineered it's not an issue and so convenient and fun in sun. The tops stay tight and flat even at 150 mph.

You were just lucky, the Turbo is actually the most dangerous 911 in heavy rain because it provides a completely false sense of safety. I've seen so many aquaplaning accidents with 911 Turbos...at least a dozen. No kidding. Dirt and gravel of course are a different story.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

There is no try. Just do.

Well, just have in mind what a one of my F-dealers once told me:

When you are travelling on the autobahn and it's pouring and you are overtaking a lorry - you are too quick. 

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The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Rossi:

Well, just have in mind what a one of my F-dealers once told me:

When you are travelling on the autobahn and it's pouring and you are overtaking a lorry - you are too quick. 

--

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

There is no try. Just do.

RC:

watt:
With two wd, just wait until you float your front tyres in heavy rain whilst next to a solid road barrier. Then drive a turbo fast with solid confidence and safety in same conditions..... I do a lot of dirt and gravel driving both dry and wet and four wd makes it a fun point and squirt game instead of a tense floating experience. When it's dry even two wd is fun and stable on dirt and gravel, but no where near as sure and you are much slower at the same risk level, but om muddy dirt roads after a rain, you,d be off the road I drive a turbo S cab a few days a week and on long road trips. Porsche soft tops are so well engineered it's not an issue and so convenient and fun in sun. The tops stay tight and flat even at 150 mph.

 

You were just lucky, the Turbo is actually the most dangerous 911 in heavy rain because it provides a completely false sense of safety. I've seen so many aquaplaning accidents with 911 Turbos...at least a dozen. No kidding. Dirt and gravel of course are a different story.

Been there, done it. I was not even going very fast. 90-100km/h.

I much prefer the rear-wheel drive S to the 4S and Turbo (owned both before). The car feels more direct and nimble, the steering is lighter and more precise. I never had any traction problems with the S and I even use mine for skiing trips in the winter. Steep, snowy alproads, no problem.

Anyone believing the four-wheel drive is safer should revisit a physics book. There is only so much traction on the front wheels. You can use it all for steering or you can let steering and power compete for it. 

997.2 Carrera S in Carrara White. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

987.1 Boxster S in Arctic Silver. OZ Racing Ultraleggera HLT Wheels, H&R Monotube Coil-Over Suspension, H&R Anti-Roll Bars, Sachs Racing Clutch, Single-Mass Flywheel, Recaro Pole Position Seats, PSE.

There is no try. Just do.

bluelines:

Anyone believing the four-wheel drive is safer should revisit a physics book. There is only so much traction on the front wheels. You can use it all for steering or you can let steering and power compete for it. 

I wouldn't call the benefit of 4WD to be safer, it allows skilled drivers to be fast(er) with a wider safety net.

My first 4WD car was a Lancia Delta HF Integrale. Before I started professional Rallye racing, I drove around in such a car for a couple of months. I was young and reckless. At one point, I was entering a pretty narrow curve at an incredibly high speed because the car, the steering, the chassis, everything felt stable and predictable. To my surprise, the car slid over all four wheels out of the curve without any warning. Lucky me, there was a wide grassland without any obstacles. If there would have been trees, they may have killed me. The impact into the grass was so strong, I had to deflate my tires to remove grass which got stuck between the tires and the rims. Unbelievable. 

It is great to have 4WD but it doesn't make your ride safer, it allows you to be fast(er) up to a certain point where there is no point of return. Very dangerous. 

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

RC:

My first 4WD car was a Lancia Delta HF Integrale... I was young...

Ah, the Integrale, I had two of them and can echo your experiences. Never really trusted them at the limit... (still remember them fondly though).

To me 4WD just gives a safer feeling below the limit (and I guess that's the peace of mind some customers are after).

It all comes down on being able to judge (and feel) the amount of grip. The tricky bit is to respond accurately, and that's where 4WD sends vague signals...

RC:

watt:
With two wd, just wait until you float your front tyres in heavy rain whilst next to a solid road barrier. Then drive a turbo fast with solid confidence and safety in same conditions..... I do a lot of dirt and gravel driving both dry and wet and four wd makes it a fun point and squirt game instead of a tense floating experience. When it's dry even two wd is fun and stable on dirt and gravel, but no where near as sure and you are much slower at the same risk level, but om muddy dirt roads after a rain, you,d be off the road I drive a turbo S cab a few days a week and on long road trips. Porsche soft tops are so well engineered it's not an issue and so convenient and fun in sun. The tops stay tight and flat even at 150 mph.

 

You were just lucky, the Turbo is actually the most dangerous 911 in heavy rain because it provides a completely false sense of safety. I've seen so many aquaplaning accidents with 911 Turbos...at least a dozen. No kidding. Dirt and gravel of course are a different story.

 I need to get this straight. The TT has better traction in the rain and all other driving conditions BUT is more dangerous because of the false sense of security it provides.

Hmnn that would mean a gun with a safety lock is more dangerous than a gun without a safety because someone thinks the safety is on but in fact it isn't leading to the gun discharging.

Christian, I think you got too much Florida sun.

Hey Watt, I didn't know you were back into Porsche's.

I think a better analogy concerning guns is a turbo is a gun with a 2in trigger travel, while a 2wd has 1/8 in travel.

Both can ultimately kill you, but with the turbo there is a bigger safe margin, while the 2wd has no margin.

A gun with no margin or error makes people play it safe, a gun with such a big safety margin makes people wants to push the limit, play around with the dead trigger travel but it's not wise to play with fire, soon or later someone dumb is going to push to far and fire the gun accidentally.

People KNOWS rwd 911s are a handful, they give the heavy ass a big berth, they won't play at or around the limit, knowing once you go past it there is no return. On the other hand with the better traction of the awd, people thinks the limit is higher, it isn't, the awd just let you play closer to the limit, this gives drivers a false sense of security.