Crown

ResB:

Enmanuel:

Atzporsche:

haha, i love this car. Looks so good in silver, very understated.

 +1, white will look amazing as well.

Sort of white..

 

 Thanks ResB, it does prove the point, it looks great in white. 

I saw a prototype on the motorway this morning, which was orange with swathes of blue plastic trying to disguise the detailing.  The stance is very much supercar but there is definitely a sobriety about the overall look.   I think sliver/grey/black shades will suit it best

Gen II Cayman S

 So had the chance (and privilege) to drive the car at and around dunsfold today. Did a drive for about 15 mins on local (pretty bad) B roads and then about 10-15 laps on the Top Gear circuit (yes the actual circuit!) at all modes. Will probably end up writing more later on but main points;

- indeed on city/traffic/potholes/DD mode the car is much better than competition. That does not mean that the car feels like an Merc E Class (it doesn't and it really shouldn't anyway) but you can go over potholes and not feel the usual jerk, boom, paf etc that is associated with F cars and GT porsche models. I think the expectations are probably set a bit too high on that it is going to feel like an executive saloon etc and that is unfair as you can still hear the engine note (as you should be in a car like this) and you are sitting on a sport seat, pretty low etc etc. So people should expect the best ride quality possible in a SPORTS CAR (not a Lexus).
- Overall the suspension setup is obviously pretty clever as you can tell in N mode that there is plenty of roll for a car like this but beyond a certain turn angle it is as if a sway bar magically appears and suddenly keeps roll in check. 
- On normal and track mode you can feel no roll and the only feeling i got is that of a very stiff and efficient chassis, with equally stiff suspension (see hydraulic system) but also bushes everywhere instead of usual rose joints or monoballs. The result is very efficient cornering ability with very good NVH characteristics. If anything one could even consider remove some of those elastomer bushes to get a bit more "feel".. but i guess that could be pretty pointless in terms of efficiency. Very well thought out indeed.
- Grip is very good for such a car. Was driving on beaten-up P zeros which offer nth like the grip of the corsas, especially on a damp day like today. Got some wheelspin on cold tires on 2nd which is normal but the traction on the exit of a corner is very good, esp for a 2 wheel drive car.

Engine
- Was quite interested to see how it would feel to me, since i currently drive a car with a lot more torque/hp. Pleasant surprise there as the feeling of acceleration is quite good for the quoted power numbers and it genuinely feels like it has more torque than 600NM. Top end power is good too with an effective power band of 5k rpm! This, together with the fast gearbox/weight, must be the reason for the ground breaking perf figures that mclaren has announced.
- Exhaust note. Personally i like it. It is not high pitch like the F or loud like the L cars obviously but its loud enough and purposeful. I am interested in the sports exhaust and at some point i was wondering whether its really necessary.. 
- Gearbox. Being a manual fan i was also quite worried i would not like the paddleshift but i think mclaren did a good job with this rocker system as it has mechanical feel that really makes you feel involved in the whole process a lot more than other dual-clutch systems. I remember that the downshifts in N mode don't have the "drama" blips of a scuderia or GTO but on track mode they were quick and fun. Upshifts are pretty instantaneous, and so are downshift if you engage the precog system. Basically the reason why Clarkson DID NOT like the paddles is the reason why I LIKED THEM! They feel like you are actually doing sth! If one is lazy then they can put it in auto mode. (did not even try that to be honest)

Handling
- Feels like a light car with a lot of power and good traction, which is obviously a very good thing! You can carry insane speeds at wot on those 4th gear corners at Dunsfold (I think I scared a bit the person next to me.. so he did the same to me on few hot laps at the end!). Was worried about the absence of LSD but the brake steer works well on those tight corners when you come in pretty fast. Tried all modes and obviously the track mode is by far the most fun as it allows you to really place the car on medium and fast corners beyond the limit of traction. And at those moments you get to see the balance of the car; it just holds the line - even when sliding at over 100mls/hr, and just digs in and goes.. I was just trying to imagine how it would be with a new set of Corsas and no passenger next to me.! (yes 80+kgs do a make a difference at those conditions).
On the tight 2nd gear corners though the ESP was interfering, i would rather take it off completely for track use. (yes it is possible but could not try it)
I think that the chassis is definitely capable of taking more power/torque as it really did not get out of shape (and i tried hard!)
- Steering is a tad slow, i would say medium in terms of directness compared with a 458 or GT3. There was a reason for that, as most people would probably prefer that setup as it is less "scary" and definitely safer. I for one would prefer it to be a tad faster..

- Brakes. Only drove the ceramics, stopping power is very very good, even compared to the PCCBs. Never seemed to get tired. Stopping power at the end of the straight was only limited to the tires and the car was always very balanced on the brakes. The weight makes a big difference here. I think with grippier tires the stopping power would be even more impressive. 

- Car presence is more understated than say a ferrari 458 or 599GTO but i guess that was the purpose of mclaren anyway. I toured the production line and saw most colour/ interior combinations and I think that with a careful selection of colours/ carbon bits etc one can get closer to this "italian supercar" feeling that some might claim that this car may be missing. I for one saw the combination that i like that I think looks stunning without shouting too much.

Verdict- absent any force majeure events, I think I might be getting one!

Thanks for your impressions GT, excellent write-up.

Glad to see you liked the first test drive, I had an invitation there as well, but unfortunately didn't have the time.

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The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Great to read your comments. Highly appreciated!

Just noticed this (new?  didn't see it yet in this thread....) long road test by Sutcliffe.   His comments seem to confirm that this would be a tremendous car on the road, leaving aside track use.   Some nice on-road video.  Overall, the McLaren sounds like the mid-engine design, and driving effect,  that Porsche might build, if it ever decides to compete in this sector. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRy1zHAB2N8

2010 Audi S5,  2009 Porsche 911S

 Thanks for taking the time to write that GT, its very informative and you cover all the really important points. I love the MP4. 

Also sounds like the 458 really has a strong competition with this one, the McL seems to be setting a new bar. 

great writeup.....thanks

Thank you so much for this review. I was looking for a 1st hand user experience like that.

There is no try. Just do.

GT:

PS. I think i ll go with titanium silver (ceramics with orange calipers ) with most carbon options -except vanes- with a black/ carbon interior with orange stiching. You can get more exclusive effect with alcantara and some other dual colour combos, also the orange, black and red (especially) looked really nice imo but not for my intended use.

Funny thing is, titanium silver - carbon brakes - orange callipers is exactly my favourite!

Not sure about the interior so far.

But tell me, why did you decide against CF turning vanes, especially if you are going for CF all the way? Until now I thought the CF vanes would make a nice contrast to the a bit silly looking double air inlet, but of course I haven't seen the car in real.

Some explanation would be highly apprecieated.

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The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

GT:
Easy that one; on a silver car it would be too much like an R8, no? On the black interior, I am generally not very adventurous on colours. Alcantara/leather would be also a good option but not sure about a dd car as it wears out I think?

Haven't thought about the R8-thing, thanks very much.

BTW, the "not so sure about the interior" comment referred only to my own thoughts, I'm still not sure about the interior colour.

With black you definitely can't go wrong. The problem I have with alcantara is, that you have to pay more for a material that costs less than leather. For example if you buy leather/alcantara in an Audi, this is cheaper than the leather interior. So I don't know why I should pay more, if I substitute leather with alcantara. Ferrari charges you extra for example, I think with McLaren it will be the same.

Concerning wear, I'm not so sure if alcantara is worse than leather. I have it in one of my dd for three years now and you can't see any wear so far.

The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

GT:
Easy that one; on a silver car it would be too much like an R8, no? On the black interior, I am generally not very adventurous on colours. Alcantara/leather would be also a good option but not sure about a dd car as it wears out I think?

Most people that try alcantara like it - it is especially good for those who hate getting into cold/hot leather seats as it is always neutral temperature.  And it grips your butt better in cornering.  The longevity is excellent -  I had a (Japanese) version of alcantara on seats of a previous car for 6 years / 70,000 km - looked absolutely new despite little attempt to baby it.    The non-alcantara types are mainly people who expect for these $$ to get only leather and not a synthetic product, or who want to maximize the new-leather aroma. 

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2010 Audi S5,  2009 Porsche 911S

Jay Leno's perspective on the McLaren - good read to counter the opinions of the nay sayers eg not enough drama, not exciting enough, not enough soul compared to  F and L cars, appearance too bland etc. Once you are driving it, if it is as good as early press suggests, who cares what anyone else thinks. If the car has performance with ultimate enjoyment and involvement, well then I will have one please, in orange black or silver - does not matter (except lack of $$$'s in my case)

  http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-news/dial-m-for-mclaren-20110331-1cgk2.html

 No doubt the car is as good as McLaren says it is. The problem, at least for me, is reliability and service. This is a totally new car and it is almost certain there will be issues.

Now if Porsche produces a mid-engine model in a similar price range to compete with the 458 and McLaren, I would be all over it. However, I don't see that happening. The performance would have to be close to the 918 which costs almost three times as much. Doubtful Porsche will undermine the 918.

Thanks for the extra info.

There is no try. Just do.

Same here... Because of service and because the car is so new I am still not sold on the car...

There is no try. Just do.

well they seem to be 100% commited to quality. Whatever breaks (if it does) they will fix quickly and no questios asked. All dealers are forced to stock parts etc..

I think i ll take the "risk" under those premises. It certainly gives a lot of value for what it is if you think about it; It has a carbon chassis and 600hp (and performance for frankly much more) at this price segment after all.

 My issue is how am I going to part with this car in my avatar after developing it for 4 years and still like/enjoy it so much!

Pentium:

Thank you so much for this review. I was looking for a 1st hand user experience like that.

 Maybe I should reopen my "give in to the dark side" campain I had with you 

Great review, i enjoyed reading it

indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 

In the US, there are very few McLaren dealers. Service would be a serious issue especially if purchased from a dealer far from your residence. I understand in some cases, the McLaren had to be shipped to England for servicing.

The new Mclarens will probably be very reliable. They have the benefit of a great engineering department and have spent plenty on r/d and testing etc..

This is not a car built in a shed with surplus TVR parts.

None of the press cars have detonated or done odd things. That says a lot actually.

OK... Friend of mine from Germany drove the car in lenght. His impression mirrors GTs almost in every way. He said to me that MP4-12C is probably faster car then 458 both on the road and on the track.

BUT... He is very, very sceptical about car reliablity-specially in first production year. Then, dealers/service network is very, very narrow in EU(also in Germany, still NO appointed dealer for Munich area wich should cover my country as well!). How much experience will service departments have with this cart? Zero. For at least some time... Best market for buying MP4-12C is home land UK since you are close to McLaren HQ is something goes wrong.

For all potential buyers-bare in mind that current waiting list is over 1 year long(same as 458) and that within 2 years time replacemnt for Gallardo/R8 will be on the market as well. To not forget 991 Turbo and probably mid engine 458 competitor from Porsche. Best decison for non UK costumers is to wait...

Thanks very much for posting  - very helpful.  

I hear you but I dont know Kreso.. Really, they ve detected this as a key area of attention and dealers are being trained as we speak. Also they have very strict part stocking policy. Mclaren is out to make a point and Ron Dennis (met him briefly) is apparently paranoid about these issues..

I expect some early Gremlins maybe but if you order car now you get it feb 12 in some markets and by then these should be ironed out to a large extend. I saw cars being built (around 20 dealer cars as we speak) and everything is done by hand. The facilities look like a clinic  with workers asembling parts and guys on suits/ties hooking in laptops on the vehicles.. Looked like a very strict environment etc

After I saw what this car can do dynamically I am curious to see how competition will catch up. It has to be a BIIG step up in performance/ chassis to compete with that. Not to mention weight reduction. MP4 just has too many aces up its sleeve.. (carbon super responsive chassis, v low weight, amazing versatile suspension system, airbrake, engine with 5.5k effective rpm range, super fast gearbox, amazing 2wd traction). It will take some beating for others to offer that.

I mean the 991 carrera will be around 10kgs lighter than 997? If its the same case with the 991tt then we are talking about almost 160-200kgs difference..

My point is that this is a different car to what competition is offering now. For sure this will be good for us consumers..

i think part of the issue here is that we are applying our typical concerns for a new car from experiencing novice manufacturers failures and existing main manufacturers "work in progress" car releases. In this situation i believe this simply isnt the case. Typically manufacturers build a car to what they think is ready for production then resolve faults should they happen to the public. We see this with sudden loss of power or the engine fires some manufacturers have suffered from. To ensure a car is complete, in every angle is completely unheard of for pre-production. Mclarens fault finding and testing process has accrude over a million miles of test driving, this isnt something that most manufacturers take on before product release. I can understand why its so hard to accept that they might have achieved this as we have never experienced a manufacturer provide this level of commitment. It seems that is what Mclaren want to use as thier nieche, pure customer service at their own expence, which in the long run im sure is actually far less costly to them than having to recall cars for what could have been a minor fix in production.

Good points Phipck (and welcome to the forum!).  

Another dimension of the reliability issue, is that few users of $200,000+ cars typically log large mileage each year.... many mechanical reliability issues that have to do with wear and tear (as opposed to faulty initial design) typically take at least 3-4 years of ownership to show up.  Is waiting one year going to really show up any of these longer term reliability issues for cars only driven a few '000 km in their first year?? 

To put it a different way, waiting one year will let McLaren correct any poorly designed parts/systems that cause immediate faults - but if you owned a first year car, McLaren will clearly cover all of this as any manufacturer would.    Waiting one year will not tell you if the McLaren has potential long term problems with its equivalent of the Porsche RMS leaks etc. 
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2010 Audi S5,  2009 Porsche 911S

One of the two Porsche dealers in Toronto (Pfaff) is getting a McLaren dealership (surprised it wasn't Gentry Lane the Aston/Bentley/Rolls/Lotus dealership...). I"m surprised Toronto has a dealership and a place like Munich doesn't!

A guy from Fchat posted his lap in the MP4-12C at the top gear test track on YouTube.

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The secret of life is to admire without desiring.